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Legitimate chance of Sale trade to #Nationals per Rosenthal

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Unless you can get Swanson or Bregman.

 

The trade's easier to sell if the fans can see one key piece making an immediate contribution, particularly an everyday player at a key position on the field.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 06:25 AM)
Unless you can get Swanson or Bregman.

 

The trade's easier to sell if the fans can see one key piece making an immediate contribution, particularly an everyday player at a key position on the field.

 

Well looking at Sox attendance the causal fan that would be worried about name recognition back doesn't show up to the park anyway so who cares? The attendance was low with Sale, Abreu, Q, Eaton, Frazier, Melky, etc. You think people will show up if 1/2 of those guys are gone just because we got Trae Turner? Highly doubt it. Get the best package that helps the future the most, Turner by himself doesn't do much for this team and we aren't getting Turner + a whole lot else. The franchise is going to have to take its lumps for at least a couple of years but if a young, exciting, winning team is built people will show back up to fill the stadium.

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QUOTE (reiks12 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 04:45 AM)
I am prepared to be be completely underwhelmed

One good position prospect for Sale not good. He is described by BP as the “toolsy 19-year-old center fielder

Edited by Soxfest

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QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:05 PM)
Sounds like the hotel bar kicked the GMs out.

 

Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale 7m7 minutes ago

 

The #Whitesox did not come close to trading Chris Sale tonight but acknowledge the #Nats were very aggressive in proposals

Almost too funny, in the vein Quinn predicted, is that this post went entirely unnoticed.

 

Not quite sure what this means...just assuming it is a White Sox leak, it certainly appears as if the target all along may be the Red Sox or Houston, and that the Nationals are just a pawn to drive the price up.

 

Btw, the stuff in this thread last night was priceless.

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QUOTE (Soxfest @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 06:11 AM)
One good position prospect for Sale not good. He is described by BP as the “toolsy 19-year-old center fielder

 

But unlike ours of past he has an advanced approach at the plate including good two strike approach and high contact rate. Basically sounds like Byron Buxton.

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I'd like to see Pedro Severino as a second-tier piece in a Nats deal. Would be our Opening Day catcher in all likelihood. Not huge upside, but good chance of being a longtime major leaguer.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 07:00 AM)
But unlike ours of past he has an advanced approach at the plate including good two strike approach and high contact rate. Basically sounds like Byron Buxton.

Robles is also a plus defender in CF. There's a ton of value in his defense & arm strength that people are completely ignoring.

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QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 01:15 AM)
For those suddenly freaking out over 2 year old scouting grades on Robles....here is a recent one from MLB Pipeline...

 

"Scouting grades: Hit: 60 | Power: 45 | Run: 70 | Arm: 65 | Field: 60 | Overall: 60"

 

They rank him the 10th best prospect in all of baseball. Giolito is 3rd best.

 

And Baseball America had Giolito No. 4 overall in baseball last year midseason and Robles No. 13.

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/mids...juv8EojevuUo.97

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I would love Robles and Giolito back in a package. It depends on what the other 3-4 pieces back are however.

 

With that said, I'm still holding out hope for a Sale and Robertson for Benintendi, Devers and others package.

Edited by soxfan2014

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QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 07:38 AM)
I would love Robles and Giolito back in a package. It depends on what the other 3-4 pieces back are however.

 

With that said, I'm still holding out for a Sale and Robertson for Benintendi, Devers and others package.

Yeah. Ugh Benintendi is so awesome. One part to hang our hat on though is apparently Robles wrists are lightning quick like Benintendi. And that Benintendi is a great example of finding your power in your age 20-21 years

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So who wants to guess what is going on here?

 

Do we think a package based on Giolito and Robles is an acceptable framework for the Sox? And that we are just haggling, as Rosenthal said, over the remaining pieces?

 

I'm going to guess we still are asking for Turner in any deal. I know some folks think that is ridiculous, and I am not saying I don't agree, but my guess is this deal would be pretty close to done by now if we were ok with Giolito and Robles as the headliners.

 

My guess is Hahn and Co are still asking for Turner, Giolito and Robles, while Washington is willing to agree to the latter two.

 

Then, if Boston jumps in with an offer of either Benintendi or Moncada, but not the other pieces we desire, we can go back to Washington asking for Turner.

 

That's just my feeling for how the Sox are hoping this will go.

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 07:51 AM)
So who wants to guess what is going on here?

 

Do we think a package based on Giolito and Robles is an acceptable framework for the Sox? And that we are just haggling, as Rosenthal said, over the remaining pieces?

 

I'm going to guess we still are asking for Turner in any deal. I know some folks think that is ridiculous, and I am not saying I don't agree, but my guess is this deal would be pretty close to done by now if we were ok with Giolito and Robles as the headliners.

 

My guess is Hahn and Co are still asking for Turner, Giolito and Robles, while Washington is willing to agree to the latter two.

 

Then, if Boston jumps in with an offer of either Benintendi or Moncada, but not the other pieces we desire, we can go back to Washington asking for Turner.

 

That's just my feeling for how the Sox are hoping this will go.

 

This. I agree with you 110%.

 

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 07:51 AM)
So who wants to guess what is going on here?

 

Do we think a package based on Giolito and Robles is an acceptable framework for the Sox? And that we are just haggling, as Rosenthal said, over the remaining pieces?

 

I'm going to guess we still are asking for Turner in any deal. I know some folks think that is ridiculous, and I am not saying I don't agree, but my guess is this deal would be pretty close to done by now if we were ok with Giolito and Robles as the headliners.

 

My guess is Hahn and Co are still asking for Turner, Giolito and Robles, while Washington is willing to agree to the latter two.

 

Then, if Boston jumps in with an offer of either Benintendi or Moncada, but not the other pieces we desire, we can go back to Washington asking for Turner.

 

That's just my feeling for how the Sox are hoping this will go.

 

 

I kind of feel like the Red Sox are lurking in the background up until the last minute to see what kind of package they would have to beat.

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You guys are all kidding yourselves if you think Turner is going to be in a package....

 

My guess is that Giolito and Robles are agreed upon but Hahn and Co. are trying to get as many of Lopez, Fedde, Joe Ross, Stevenson, Kieboom, Severino as possible and the Nats are balking at which 1's and how many go with the 2 headliners.

 

All the while the Hahn is still checking his phone every 5 seconds waiting for a better offer to come in. Presumably waiting for Boston to come off of 1 of Moncada/Benentendi + Devers + 1 of Kopesch/Groome or Houston to let go of Bregman + Tucker + Musgrove/Paulino. I'd be surprised if anyone else is seriously in the mix.

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QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:02 AM)
You guys are all kidding yourselves if you think Turner is going to be in a package....

 

My guess is that Giolito and Robles are agreed upon but Hahn and Co. are trying to get as many of Lopez, Fedde, Joe Ross, Stevenson, Kieboom, Severino as possible and the Nats are balking at which 1's and how many go with the 2 headliners.

 

All the while the Hahn is still checking his phone every 5 seconds waiting for a better offer to come in. Presumably waiting for Boston to come off of 1 of Moncada/Benentendi + Devers + 1 of Kopesch/Groome or Houston to let go of Bregman + Tucker + Musgrove/Paulino. I'd be surprised if anyone else is seriously in the mix.

I agree 100%.

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 07:51 AM)
So who wants to guess what is going on here?

 

Do we think a package based on Giolito and Robles is an acceptable framework for the Sox? And that we are just haggling, as Rosenthal said, over the remaining pieces?

 

I'm going to guess we still are asking for Turner in any deal. I know some folks think that is ridiculous, and I am not saying I don't agree, but my guess is this deal would be pretty close to done by now if we were ok with Giolito and Robles as the headliners.

 

My guess is Hahn and Co are still asking for Turner, Giolito and Robles, while Washington is willing to agree to the latter two.

 

Then, if Boston jumps in with an offer of either Benintendi or Moncada, but not the other pieces we desire, we can go back to Washington asking for Turner.

 

That's just my feeling for how the Sox are hoping this will go.

I hope so. These 2 are ranked pretty high but there are so questions.

 

Rizzo doesn't make bad trades. Maybe he is due. But if he has a top 5 prospect in baseball and a starting pitcher, why would he use that and another top 10 guy to get a starter when he has other needs?

 

Giolitto was like James Shields in his time with the Nats last season. I know it isn't necessarily a sign to come. He is young and you can't expect a 21 year old to dominate from the start. But if a guy like Benetendi struggled with the bat when he was called up as much as he struggled on the mound, there is a decent chance a package centered around Benetendi would not be desired here.

 

Robles has tools no question. But....he has nice numbers, however .065 of his OBP and OPS are getting HBP. He has more HBP in his career than walks. That makes one question a few things. Is he a guy that is going to get hit 30-40 times a season? If he is, you run the risk of him missing a lot of development time and post development time. If he is not, is he capable of improving his OBP with fewer HBP?

 

This is Chris Sale, I don't think it is unreasonable to demand a surer thing. Prospect rankings be damned.

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QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:02 AM)
You guys are all kidding yourselves if you think Turner is going to be in a package....

 

My guess is that Giolito and Robles are agreed upon but Hahn and Co. are trying to get as many of Lopez, Fedde, Joe Ross, Stevenson, Kieboom, Severino as possible and the Nats are balking at which 1's and how many go with the 2 headliners.

 

All the while the Hahn is still checking his phone every 5 seconds waiting for a better offer to come in. Presumably waiting for Boston to come off of 1 of Moncada/Benentendi + Devers + 1 of Kopesch/Groome or Houston to let go of Bregman + Tucker + Musgrove/Paulino. I'd be surprised if anyone else is seriously in the mix.

 

Yeah there's no way they give up Turner. Too important of a piece.

Edited by soxfan2014

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Giolito and Robles or its equivalent will be there for Sale months from now. 0 reason to rush into that on the first day of the winter meetings.

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Giolito's stats aren't all that amazing. what's all the hubbub? saw a couple highlights and his fastballs were 93-96 and straight as an arrow.

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QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:02 AM)
You guys are all kidding yourselves if you think Turner is going to be in a package....

 

My guess is that Giolito and Robles are agreed upon but Hahn and Co. are trying to get as many of Lopez, Fedde, Joe Ross, Stevenson, Kieboom, Severino as possible and the Nats are balking at which 1's and how many go with the 2 headliners.

 

All the while the Hahn is still checking his phone every 5 seconds waiting for a better offer to come in. Presumably waiting for Boston to come off of 1 of Moncada/Benentendi + Devers + 1 of Kopesch/Groome or Houston to let go of Bregman + Tucker + Musgrove/Paulino. I'd be surprised if anyone else is seriously in the mix.

100% agree. Sox are pushing for as many of those second tier prospects, while floating some version of the Nationals offer to Boston & Houston in hopes of one of them topping. Washington giving up Turner is simply counterproductive to adding Sale. Their goal is maximize their two year window with Harper and Tuner is an important part of that.

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QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 06:02 AM)
You guys are all kidding yourselves if you think Turner is going to be in a package....

 

My guess is that Giolito and Robles are agreed upon but Hahn and Co. are trying to get as many of Lopez, Fedde, Joe Ross, Stevenson, Kieboom, Severino as possible and the Nats are balking at which 1's and how many go with the 2 headliners.

 

All the while the Hahn is still checking his phone every 5 seconds waiting for a better offer to come in. Presumably waiting for Boston to come off of 1 of Moncada/Benentendi + Devers + 1 of Kopesch/Groome or Houston to let go of Bregman + Tucker + Musgrove/Paulino. I'd be surprised if anyone else is seriously in the mix.

I don't disagree with you about Turner, I'm just saying I think Hahn and Co are holding out for Turner still. I think if the discussion was about the remaining prospects, and Giolito and Robles were agreed upon, they would have been hammering this thing out last night. The absence of rumors overnight suggests that did not happen.

 

Not quite sure there is as big of a difference between Turner's perceived value and Benintendi's, but you certainly seem to feel as though Benintendi is a possible get while Turner is not.

 

Is there really a huge difference between a package of Benintendi/Devers/Kopech and Turner/Giolito/Robles? I'd take the latter, but I think some here would choose the former.

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QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:10 AM)
Giolito and Robles or its equivalent will be there for Sale months from now. 0 reason to rush into that on the first day of the winter meetings.

No it won't and that's the problem. There are only so many teams that can afford Sale and they will move on to lesser options at some point. We have some leverage now, we won't in a few weeks.

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:15 AM)
I don't disagree with you about Turner, I'm just saying I think Hahn and Co are holding out for Turner still. I think if the discussion was about the remaining prospects, and Giolito and Robles were agreed upon, they would have been hammering this thing out last night. The absence of rumors overnight suggests that did not happen.

 

Not quite sure there is as big of a difference between Turner's perceived value and Benintendi's, but you certainly seem to feel as though Benintendi is a possible get while Turner is not.

 

Is there really a huge difference between a package of Benintendi/Devers/Kopech and Turner/Giolito/Robles? I'd take the latter, but I think some here would choose the former.

If Hahn can get either of these packages, I think White Sox fans would be ecstatic. I agree with you in regards to Hahn holding out for a headliner who is pretty much at the MLB level already.

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