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Legitimate chance of Sale trade to #Nationals per Rosenthal

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 09:57 AM)
I, for one, have confidence in the FO to do this. I don't necessarily blame them for holding out, either.

 

In regards to my comments about Turner, I am just reading the tea leaves here. I truly think if the main two pieces from the Nats were agreed to, this would have continued to pick up steam last night.

 

I think they are targeting the right types of players. I just hold a level of doubt about getting them to the majors. I know things have gotten better recently, but I keep asking myself the question is it because we are drafting better, or developing better.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 09:59 AM)
I think they are targeting the right types of players. I just hold a level of doubt about getting them to the majors. I know things have gotten better recently, but I keep asking myself the question is it because we are drafting better, or developing better.

 

Apparently the White Sox were not close to trading Sale last night, but did mention that the Nationals were aggressive in their proposals

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 07:59 AM)
I think they are targeting the right types of players. I just hold a level of doubt about getting them to the majors. I know things have gotten better recently, but I keep asking myself the question is it because we are drafting better, or developing better.

There is not much of a history for us moving valuable mlb pieces. We've done ok with the pieces we have sold off recently.

 

I think we'll do fine here.

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QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 10:00 AM)
Exactly. Was thinking the same thing!

 

I edited the earlier one. One was already traded this year.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 11:59 AM)
I think they are targeting the right types of players. I just hold a level of doubt about getting them to the majors. I know things have gotten better recently, but I keep asking myself the question is it because we are drafting better, or developing better.

My answer is option 3: they're doing neither, they're just drafting higher and that makes it harder to miss.

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QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:07 AM)
If Boston would rather move Moncada than Benintendi, that's fine. Moncada was a higher ranked prospect for a long time and has more upside IMO, though he also has much more risk. He's definitely a worthy centerpiece in a Sale trade...much more so than Giolito or Robles.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but why?

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 10:08 AM)
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but why?

 

I see it like this. The Sox clearly have trouble developing position players and don't have much of a problem developing pitchers. Robles is good but he's raw and a few years away and while Giolito is nice, the org is almost barren in any MLB ready position player prospects. You could use any of the other guys to trade and get a top 100 pitching prospect that the org wouldn't have trouble developing into an MLB pitcher, you can't say the same about good position prospects.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 10:04 AM)
My answer is option 3: they're doing neither, they're just drafting higher and that makes it harder to miss.

 

You still have to choose the right player, regardless of where you pick. Is more elite talent available near the top of the first round? Sure. In Rodon's draft, the Astros and Marlins blew it at #1 and #2. They could easily have selected Rodon if their process was better. Instead they both got high school TJS guys, one of whom didn't even sign. Many of the Red Sox prospects the past few years have been guys selected in the late first round/comp rounds/2nd rounds. It's about choosing the right guy.

Edited by Ro Da Don

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QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 10:07 AM)
If Boston would rather move Moncada than Benintendi, that's fine. Moncada was a higher ranked prospect for a long time and has more upside IMO, though he also has much more risk. He's definitely a worthy centerpiece in a Sale trade...much more so than Giolito or Robles.

 

I think when you get into that level of players, it becomes a teams personal preference. This is where your scouts and developmental people have to take the lead.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 10:15 AM)
I think when you get into that level of players, it becomes a teams personal preference. This is where your scouts and developmental people have to take the lead.

 

Nats: Giolito + Robles + Sox choice of Lopez or Fedde + Kieboom + Neuse or Stevenson

 

Anything less and I don't think we should trade Sale. Giolito and Robles have alot of potential, but neither are close to being a sure thing. Sox can't deal Sale and miss on the return or they will set the franchise back a decade

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QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 09:41 AM)
Really like Basabe. Tore up Carolina league as a 20 year old.

 

In 22 at bats.....

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QUOTE (Sockin @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 10:14 AM)
I see it like this. The Sox clearly have trouble developing position players and don't have much of a problem developing pitchers. Robles is good but he's raw and a few years away and while Giolito is nice, the org is almost barren in any MLB ready position player prospects. You could use any of the other guys to trade and get a top 100 pitching prospect that the org wouldn't have trouble developing into an MLB pitcher, you can't say the same about good position prospects.

This was my thought process almost word for word when I made the original post. I also prefer Moncada to Giolito as the headliner because he hasn't had any major surgery and is younger...and is a hitter, like you said. Robles might have all the potential and tools in the world but he's so far away from the big leagues that anything can happen over the next couple years with his development. Moncada is much more polished and would most likely be in Charlotte next year. Heck, he could be in Chicago in 2017 if he proves himself worthy.

 

Moncada/Kopech/Swihart/Basabe/Travis wouldn't be terrible, though I'd like Devers too.

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I don't know. I think it's overblown. Moncada was in AA and got a september callup for a handful of at bats.

 

You like Moncada because he has developed his power, but almost everything else Robles already has at a premium defensive position.

 

Both have good plate discipline and walk rates. Robles OTOH doesn't strike out.

 

Robles was a 19 year old in A+, Moncada was a 21 year old in AA.

 

I'm fine with either. Depends on what surrounds them. If we can continue to find dynamite athletic players like Anderson and Robles with the rest of the rebuild we could end up with a Royals like team.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:29 AM)
I don't know. I think it's overblown. Moncada was in AA and got a september callup for a handful of at bats.

 

You like Moncada because he has developed his power, but almost everything else Robles already has at a premium defensive position.

 

Both have good plate discipline and walk rates. Robles OTOH doesn't strike out.

 

Robles was a 19 year old in A+, Moncada was a 21 year old in AA.

 

I'm fine with either. Depends on what surrounds them. If we can continue to find dynamite athletic players like Anderson and Robles with the rest of the rebuild we could end up with a Royals like team.

I honestly prefer the Nats package over the Red Sox package. I really want Devers if we do the Red Sox trade.

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In my eyes, Benintendi is the type of prospect even the White Sox couldn't ruin, barring injury. Moncada while having "more talent" and a higher ceiling, is the type of player I could definitely see be underwhelming with the White Sox, even being the #1 prospect - based on our recent history with tools guys. I guess the same could be said about Robles. Not saying I'd be disappointed with a Moncada acquisition, just skeptical the Red Sox would rather give him up over Benintendi - if that were the case.

Edited by Ro Da Don

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QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 10:29 AM)
I don't know. I think it's overblown. Moncada was in AA and got a september callup for a handful of at bats.

 

You like Moncada because he has developed his power, but almost everything else Robles already has at a premium defensive position.

 

Both have good plate discipline and walk rates. Robles OTOH doesn't strike out.

 

Robles was a 19 year old in A+, Moncada was a 21 year old in AA.

 

I'm fine with either. Depends on what surrounds them. If we can continue to find dynamite athletic players like Anderson and Robles with the rest of the rebuild we could end up with a Royals like team.

Robles has a below average walk rate. Still very young, I,admit, and could or should go up.

Edited by Dick Allen

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QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 10:29 AM)
I don't know. I think it's overblown. Moncada was in AA and got a september callup for a handful of at bats.

 

You like Moncada because he has developed his power, but almost everything else Robles already has at a premium defensive position.

 

Both have good plate discipline and walk rates. Robles OTOH doesn't strike out.

 

Robles was a 19 year old in A+, Moncada was a 21 year old in AA.

 

I'm fine with either. Depends on what surrounds them. If we can continue to find dynamite athletic players like Anderson and Robles with the rest of the rebuild we could end up with a Royals like team.

Yeah but Basabe comes in very similar to Robles. And you add Moncada who probably ends up at 3rd. And Kooech with a big arm.

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You have to get a bit more from the Redsox if its between the Nats/NL team and them. All things being equal you trade Sale to the NL over an AL team every time so you dont have to see him and your fanbase somewhat forgets about him. You can leverage that desire against the Redsox to validate more quality or quantity from what they are offering.

 

Leverage anything and everything against everyone. Take no f***ing prisoners with this trade.

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QUOTE (mataipaepae @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 10:38 AM)
Yeah but Basabe comes in very similar to Robles. And you add Moncada who probably ends up at 3rd. And Kooech with a big arm.

I also prefer the Boston package but the bolded segment is very debatable.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 10:29 AM)
I don't know. I think it's overblown. Moncada was in AA and got a september callup for a handful of at bats.

 

You like Moncada because he has developed his power, but almost everything else Robles already has at a premium defensive position.

 

Both have good plate discipline and walk rates. Robles OTOH doesn't strike out.

 

Robles was a 19 year old in A+, Moncada was a 21 year old in AA.

 

I'm fine with either. Depends on what surrounds them. If we can continue to find dynamite athletic players like Anderson and Robles with the rest of the rebuild we could end up with a Royals like team.

 

The only real knock on Robles is that he has not developed much power, but defensively he has a 65 grade arm and projects as a 60 grade fielder which is outstanding. Center field defense is really important.

 

Right now Robles ceiling appears to be a lack of power

 

he projects as a .280 hitter with 10-15 home runs, great speed and excellent defense/arm. That can be a very exciting player...I'm thinking he is somewhat like Lorenzo Cain/Andrew McCutchen?

 

Robles is the type of player that if he has a great season could move into the "untouchable" discussion.

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