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Dunt

Just Go For It

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I know it's all smoke screens until something actually happens, but if all these teams aren't willing to give up what it's going to take for Sale, why not just pivot and spend some money for f***ing once? You're really telling me this team couldn't compete if they signed EE and Castillo and traded for a CF? I just hope Hahn is smart enough to not get caught up s***s creek without a paddle again thinking the market will come to him.

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QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 06:38 PM)
I know it's all smoke screens until something actually happens, but if all these teams aren't willing to give up what it's going to take for Sale, why not just pivot and spend some money for f***ing once? You're really telling me this team couldn't compete if they signed EE and Castillo and traded for a CF? I just hope Hahn is smart enough to not get caught up s***s creek without a paddle again thinking the market will come to him.

No way the Sox would sign EE. The comp system is still the one from last year. They aren't giving up pick 12. They are definitely rebuilding. Just because they haven't cleared everyone out by Monday of the Winter Meetings doesn't mean things aren't going to start heating up. How many other teams have their roster set right now for 2017?

Edited by Dick Allen

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Dunt:

I agree with you 100%. Add a couple of hitters (Puig & Wieters or EE), Keep Sale + Quintana and go for it.

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Agreed if the packages never materialize.

 

Don't even need EE IMO. Gomez or Revere and Castillo should be enough to keep the team interesting and doesn't take the ability to sell off pieces in July like signing EE would.

 

I do think someone will blink on Sale eventually tho.

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Give it up man, it's over. There's not enough talent in the entire organization to seriously compete. If you can't recognize the void of talent watching the games then I don't know what to tell you. It's not like we've been close and we just need 1 thing to get over the hump. No, we need about 5 things. And the payroll has never been 150M+ and it's not going to be just because you want it to. It is what it is, and it's time to rebuild.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 06:42 PM)
No way the Sox would sign EE. The comp system is still the one from last year. They aren't giving up pick 12. They are definitely rebuilding. Just because they haven't cleared everyone out by Monday of the Winter Meetings doesn't mean things aren't going to start heating up. How many other teams have their roster set right now for 2017?

 

They don't even need to sign EE and I agree they are looking to rebuild, but if nobody wants to give you fair value, you need to be ready to pivot to the contention route soon. Hahn has said they've had plenty of interesting talks over the last few weeks, no need to be patient with this anymore. Either it happens in the next few days or you start looking to add pieces to make a playoff push in 2017. There are guys out there that make you a lot better immediately.

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QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 06:50 PM)
Give it up man, it's over. There's not enough talent in the entire organization to seriously compete. If you can't recognize the void of talent watching the games then I don't know what to tell you. It's not like we've been close and we just need 1 thing to get over the hump. No, we need about 5 things. And the payroll has never been 150M+ and it's not going to be just because you want it to. It is what it is, and it's time to rebuild.

 

No one is offering what you're looking for for Sale, we've heard absolutely nothing on our other pieces, who are we trading that is kick starting this rebuild? Have you heard anyone talk about Robertson? Frazier? Melky? Abreu? f***, I haven't even heard a peep on Q.

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Yeah, go for it and let's continue being mired in mediocrity with 0 depth and minimal talent beyond a handful of players. Just stop already with this. It's the first day of the Winter Meetings - not the eve of Spring Training. Some team will get desperate enough in the coming weeks and pony up for Chris freakin Sale. This isn't James Shields we're trying to push for a mega package here. This is arguably the best trade chip of all time.

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QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 06:53 PM)
No one is offering what you're looking for for Sale, we've heard absolutely nothing on our other pieces, who are we trading that is kick starting this rebuild? Have you heard anyone talk about Robertson? Frazier? Melky? Abreu? f***, I haven't even heard a peep on Q.

 

That's cause Q is worth as much as Sale to the Sox. If they can't get fair value for Sale, they're not getting it for Q either.

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 06:59 PM)
That's cause Q is worth as much as Sale to the Sox. If they can't get fair value for Sale, they're not getting it for Q either.

 

Let's be realistic, IF they move Q (we've heard they'll hold onto him) it's going to be after Sale gets traded when they pull Q out of their pocket and show teams "look what else we got".

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QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 07:00 PM)
Let's be realistic, IF they move Q (we've heard they'll hold onto him) it's going to be after Sale gets traded when they pull Q out of their pocket and show teams "look what else we got".

 

Yep, totally agree.

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QUOTE (bighurt574 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 08:20 PM)
Robertson for Soler. Who says no? Cubs?

 

I actually just told my buddy who's a Cubs fan to give us Soler and Candelario for Robertson

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I don't get it. Jerry is getting old. We have some great ballplayers on our team who were poorly managed by Robin. Now instead of giving it a chance with Renteria (albeit he is no Joe Madden, Terry Francona or Gardy) and buying some actual good players/reliever to go with what we have, we're going to gamble on a total rebuild? And why the hell should we trust our scouts, who can't scout an AL Central team to save their lives, to get the right players for that rebuild? We could be a lousy ballclub for 10-15 years. Jerry is no spring chicken. Why in the hell would he approve a total rebuild when it's going to be painful?

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 01:08 AM)
I don't get it. Jerry is getting old. We have some great ballplayers on our team who were poorly managed by Robin. Now instead of giving it a chance with Renteria (albeit he is no Joe Madden, Terry Francona or Gardy) and buying some actual good players/reliever to go with what we have, we're going to gamble on a total rebuild? And why the hell should we trust our scouts, who can't scout an AL Central team to save their lives, to get the right players for that rebuild? We could be a lousy ballclub for 10-15 years. Jerry is no spring chicken. Why in the hell would he approve a total rebuild when it's going to be painful?

 

We already have been lousy for 10 years almost dude. But you're suggesting we keep doing the same thing and refuse to try new methods to build a club?

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QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 01:21 AM)
We already have been lousy for 10 years almost dude. But you're suggesting we keep doing the same thing and refuse to try new methods to build a club?

 

Spending big on quality free agents would be one new method. Not sure why JR is such a nit with this team he's going to die and he's not going to take any of the money with him.

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It almost feels like we're going more in the direction of the Expos/Marlins under Loria after overspending for a decade (compared to results/WAR/incoming revenues).

 

Between being penned in by the Cubs and needing to be terrible for a couple of seasons to accumulate 2 more Top 5 draft picks, it's a logical enough direction just to slash payroll to 2005 levels and hope to ride out the storm to where you can put out a decent product on the field in 2019 and then legitimately compete for a playoff spot in 2020 (Of course, that would be 12 seasons in between playoff appearances, while the Cubs are expected to be in Year 4/5 of their run.)

 

That means someone like Robles (just as an example) would be arriving anywhere from mid 2018 to the beginning of the 2019 season.

Edited by caulfield12

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QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 08:36 PM)
I actually just told my buddy who's a Cubs fan to give us Soler and Candelario for Robertson

 

That's much better. I would do that.

Edited by ChiliIrishHammock24

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QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:21 AM)
We already have been lousy for 10 years almost dude. But you're suggesting we keep doing the same thing and refuse to try new methods to build a club?

Yeah because Robin was that bad of a manager. This is a unique situation. We have a star in Abreu, good combo at 2B in Saladino/Lawrie, great SS and great 3B. We have average to above average hitter in LF, good player in center and total stiff in right. We have nothing at catcher. We have EXCELLENT rotation and a good closer. s***ty set up guys. No DH right now. So you spend 50 million more and get some replacements and fricking get in the playoffs. Instead a total rebuild when we have HORRIBLE scouts. Not smart.

 

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:31 AM)
Spending big on quality free agents would be one new method. Not sure why JR is such a nit with this team he's going to die and he's not going to take any of the money with him.

I approve this post.

 

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:41 AM)
It almost feels like we're going more in the direction of the Expos/Marlins under Loria after overspending for a decade (compared to results/WAR/incoming revenues).

 

Between being penned in by the Cubs and needing to be terrible for a couple of seasons to accumulate 2 more Top 5 draft picks, it's a logical enough direction just to slash payroll to 2005 levels and hope to ride out the storm to where you can put out a decent product on the field in 2019 and then legitimately compete for a playoff spot in 2020 (Of course, that would be 12 seasons in between playoff appearances, while the Cubs are expected to be in Year 4/5 of their run.)

 

That means someone like Robles (just as an example) would be arriving anywhere from mid 2018 to the beginning of the 2019 season.

So we're going to win 65 games a year max during the Cub dynasty. Hmmm ... I'm not sure we'll have a fanbase after that. You know, when you have a pathetic baseball team, there are other things to do in the summer. A family might go to one Sox game for old times sake, but there is minor league baseball, movies, trips to the lake, etc. I don't think the White Sox will be able to afford a rebuild unless attendance truly means nothing and it's all about TV money and parking/concessions/ticket sales mean little to nothing.

Let's say we do get good again at some point ... we'll need a star like Abreu; we'll need a No. 1 like Sale and we'll need a closer like David. This is not a way to win, folks.

Edited by greg775

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I agree, the Sox have the pitching staff to win and only need a couple pieces to compete for the pennant. Fangraphs and sabermetrics makes every fan think they're a scout. A rebuild with this staff is a stupid move to me. I see people lamenting past trade of Sox prospects but not one of them comes to mind who has an impact at the MLB level other than Gio Gonzalez and he's not a difference maker. Sale could get you multiple Cy Young's but Robles and Giollito are top 10 prospects who are 50/50, at best, to have an impact and people are okay with that trade. That's ridiculous to me.

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QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 06:38 PM)
I know it's all smoke screens until something actually happens, but if all these teams aren't willing to give up what it's going to take for Sale, why not just pivot and spend some money for f***ing once? You're really telling me this team couldn't compete if they signed EE and Castillo and traded for a CF? I just hope Hahn is smart enough to not get caught up s***s creek without a paddle again thinking the market will come to him.

No DH, CF or C, 2 key up the middle positions.A rotation that is really 3 deep and if you stretch it to 5 with a rabbit's foot, there is no one behind them. The pen is 2 deep but yes they could rush Burdi. Mediocre at 2nd and LFThey currently have one of the worst farms in the majors and buying might put "the" in front of it. In one year the LF and 3b are gone. And there is no bench bat and no depth.

You can't buy a contender with those holes.

 

If they can't trade Sale, trade the others, which they should be working on anyway.

Edited by GreenSox

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I don't know how any White Sox fan could be pleased with trading Sale and Abreu for prospects. This whole situation scares me to death. I can easily see this team losing over 100 games FOR YEARS if these trades are made. I think its madness to do that. It would be much easier to add to this team rather than subtract/rebuild. Trading off their best players for prospects could turn this franchise into its worse era since the 1930s. I hope I'm wrong about this but that's how I see it. If anybody thinks this team is irrelevant now in the Chicagoland area, it will only get worse after a few 100 loss seasons.

Edited by WBWSF

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