Quintana Rumors: Round and round and round we go

[tray]

Pirates give up Meadows + 2 lesser pieces as ST approaches.

 

....and the Pirates still have McCutcheon.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

For the love of god Balta, Frazier is not a 1B/DH type so please stop lumping him in with the rest of the bunch. Also, you're assuming a one time market inefficiency is somehow permanent by completely ignoring other factors at play (numerous teams rebuilding, changes to comp pick structure, luxury tax considerations, etc). Let's wait and see what these 1B/DH go for next offseason before we assume it's a market trend.

[caulfield12]

Or assuming that JUST because of the A.Miller/Kimbrel/Giles trades that Nate Jones or David Robertson can be parlayed into gold. Heck, even Jennings is getting lots of hype as a trade piece.

 

There is one conclusion that's clear (so far). If you look at a team like Toronto, who panicked and assumed they had no chance to keep EE and probably didn't want to keep Bautista except at bargain prices...they really got suckered into overpaying for Kendrys Morales quite early in the process. Quite obviously, there are plenty of cheap options still out there for even better bargain prices on the dollar (see Balta's list).

 

The previous year, although the comp structure was different, Desmond and Fowler were bargains late in the process. There's even more out there entering 2017.

 

If they had it to do over, they probably would have been elated to send someone like Dalton Pompey over for Abreu, and just assume his contract, instead of being stuck with the older and more injury-hampered Cuban in Morales (especially on turf).

 

 

 

 

 

And yeah, Frazier is not perceived as a 1B/DH type just yet. He has too long a track record over at third. It's not unlike the reactions going on around the baseball world to McCutcheon's 2016 season...but the Pirates still wanting MVP prices back in terms of a trade return. Frazier is exactly the type of veteran glue player that a playoff roster needs.

Edited January 3, 2017 by caulfield12

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

For the love of god Balta, Frazier is not a 1B/DH type so please stop lumping him in with the rest of the bunch. Also, you're assuming a one time market inefficiency is somehow permanent by completely ignoring other factors at play (numerous teams rebuilding, changes to comp pick structure, luxury tax considerations, etc). Let's wait and see what these 1B/DH go for next offseason before we assume it's a market trend.

We can sort of already see what the trends are and have been and will continue to be for old slow poor defending 1b/DH types or those who project to be those types. What's hot and has been is the athletic, slick fielding, up the middle types who if they don't stick up the middle can be converted to OF or 3rd base. Versatile talent should always be the key to acquiring young positional players.

[bmags]

I don't see market trend changing with this CBA, if anything spending will be curbed even more with the rich teams taking luxury tax seriously while the players not recognizing how the greater amounts of "tanking" teams would destroy the markets of the exact players like the 1b/dh types that are typically fan pleasing signings. If those rebuilding teams and poor teams are no longer interested, their markets are thin and should continue to be so.

[caulfield12]

It's just as likely those defensively-limited but solid hitters become the next market inefficiency...regaining value to an extent, while players like a Heyward, Alex Gordon or Adam Eaton return back to more more "normal" historical levels.

 

It seems pretty obvious if everyone's now overpaying for defense and high leverage short relievers...or pitch framers...something else that's currently undervalued must come back into vogue.

 

The other area with a lot of fascination around it is multidimensional guys like Bryant, Contreras, Baez and Zobrist that can play 3-4 different positions and provide some additional roster flexibility.

[bmags]

If they are the next market inefficiency that means they'll be cheap which is the point.

[caulfield12]

If they are the next market inefficiency that means they'll be cheap which is the point.

 

Followed to that logical conclusion, any temporary disruption will eventually lead back to equilibrium. For now, they at least appear to be cheap. But that won't last forever.

 

 

[bmags]

Followed to that logical conclusion, any temporary disruption will eventually lead back to equilibrium. For now, they at least appear to be cheap. But that won't last forever.

 

Not a bet I'm taking. I don't think Sox need to target DH now with assumption they may be expensive in four years.

[harfman77]

Caul field how is that remotely relevant to a Quintana trade rumor thread

 

This is just the Soxtalk catchall thread now. There are many posts in here that have nothing to do with a Q trade - a lot of Frazier rumors, some Abreu rumors, some posts marveling at how many pages this thread is, all with no corresponding connection to the topic of the thread. Its probably time for this thread to die so that a new one can be formed once there is something newsworthy.

[caulfield12]

Not a bet I'm taking. I don't think Sox need to target DH now with assumption they may be expensive in four years.

 

Not a concern until midseason 2018...depending on where the rebuild is.

 

But they better think about it before 2020, or something has gone terribly wrong.

[harfman77]

If Quintana and Frazier are dealt the Sox are probably still favorites for #1 overall. The cutthroat AL will provide more losses than the Padres AAA roster.

 

The Padres play in a division with Giants and Dodgers two legit WS contenders plus the Diamondbacks and Rockies should be much improved. The Sox division is pretty much garbage outside of Cleveland as the Twins are going to take a step back when they move Dozier, the Tigers are starting to deal away veteran talent, and KC's window has closed as they don't have the pitching anymore to make that roster work. The Sox are going to find themselves in a lot of winnable games, even if they are much worse overall. With the Twins attempting to tank again in the same division, it is going to really tough for the Sox to suck enough to lose as many games as they do.

 

I think the Padres are far and away the favorite to garner the #1 overall pick. Not that it means a ton at this point, the Braves and Phillies were supposed to fight it out for #1 this year and ended up picking fifth and eighth.

[Dick Allen]

After the Sox trade Q and Robertson and Frazier or Melky, it's going to be really hard to be a White Sox fan. The team will absolutely suck, and next offseason there will be very little action. They will not have much to trade. They won't be signing big names.

 

[hi8is]

After the Sox trade Q and Robertson and Frazier or Melky, it's going to be really hard to be a White Sox fan. The team will absolutely suck, and next offseason there will be very little action. They will not have much to trade. They won't be signing big names.

I'm looking forward to discovering an even lower level of suckatude

[ChiSox59]

After the Sox trade Q and Robertson and Frazier or Melky, it's going to be really hard to be a White Sox fan. The team will absolutely suck, and next offseason there will be very little action. They will not have much to trade. They won't be signing big names.

 

I'd be shocked if more than 1 of those four are traded prior to opening day at this point. In fact, I think they all stay.

[HeGone7]

After the Sox trade Q and Robertson and Frazier or Melky, it's going to be really hard to be a White Sox fan. The team will absolutely suck, and next offseason there will be very little action. They will not have much to trade. They won't be signing big names.

 

And you enjoyed the last decade?

[harfman77]

After the Sox trade Q and Robertson and Frazier or Melky, it's going to be really hard to be a White Sox fan. The team will absolutely suck, and next offseason there will be very little action. They will not have much to trade. They won't be signing big names.

 

Its been hard to be a Sox fan for a while. Incoherent roster construction, questionable signings, poor player development, lack of situational baseball IQ, have all made things pretty frustrating for quite a while. I know the team is going to suck and I feel OK with that, because every other year I thought they might have a shot they sucked anyway. At least this way my expectations are aligned with what we will see, and it will hopefully lead to a period of sustained success down the road.

[Dick Allen]

Its been hard to be a Sox fan for a while. Incoherent roster construction, questionable signings, poor player development, lack of situational baseball IQ, have all made things pretty frustrating for quite a while. I know the team is going to suck and I feel OK with that, because every other year I thought they might have a shot they sucked anyway. At least this way my expectations are aligned with what we will see, and it will hopefully lead to a period of sustained success down the road.

My point was many are fixated on a Q trade. Once he goes, and maybe a couple of lesser deals, there will be nothing. If you are bored to tears right now, it's going to last a while after something happens in the next few weeks. Next offseason will be about as boring for a Sox fan as it can get.

[Con te Giolito]

You know I'll believe in a quiet White Sox offseason when I see it. Moves will always be made with this front office, especially with the impending changes to the QO system.

[Dick Allen]

You know I'll believe in a quiet White Sox offseason when I see it. Moves will always be made with this front office, especially with the impending changes to the QO system.

Moves will be made, but very minor ones, especially next offseason.

[FT35]

After the Sox trade Q and Robertson and Frazier or Melky, it's going to be really hard to be a White Sox fan. The team will absolutely suck, and next offseason there will be very little action. They will not have much to trade. They won't be signing big names.

 

I've thought the same thing really...wondered if I'm going to watch as many games, wondered if I'm going to set aside as much time/money to come see them play in Chicago as I normally do. But I don't know how much of my fandom will actually change. White Sox baseball is still a large part of who I am...and rarely do the players and the team's success have much to do with it. It's like every day is a good day--but some are just better than others. But everyday is a good day...there's the team, the pinstripes, the black and white, the strategy, the human element, the green grass, the history, the memories. Watching a game still provides at least a couple hours a day where we can just watch baseball and admire the sights and sounds of summer. Those are good days to be alive. Some teams are better than others and like you say, some flat out suck. But there's still that 2 hour experience almost every day that re-calibrates you to some good times in the past--the hope for something great to happen and the possibility that anything could happen. All while soaking in the warm weather and watching the evening come in around a large group of people who have shared many of the exact moments you have. That's not easy to replicate.

[bmags]

My point was many are fixated on a Q trade. Once he goes, and maybe a couple of lesser deals, there will be nothing. If you are bored to tears right now, it's going to last a while after something happens in the next few weeks. Next offseason will be about as boring for a Sox fan as it can get.

 

I have had this mindset but even I am beginning to be bored waiting for Q trade as I have basically now gone through every combination of players from 5 different teams in my head and now I just want closure.

[GGajewski18]

Phil Rogers ‏@philgrogers 28m28 minutes ago

Idle thought: Could @whitesox land switch-hitting prodigy Josh Bell & Tyler Glasnow from Pirates in deal for Quintana & Todd Frazier?

 

Phil Rogers ‏@philgrogers 26m26 minutes ago

@whitesox want Austin Meadows in Jose Quintana deal but Josh Bell also fits the need for young hitters w/big upside.

[Dick Allen]

I have had this mindset but even I am beginning to be bored waiting for Q trade as I have basically now gone through every combination of players from 5 different teams in my head and now I just want closure.

It's a Catch 22. You want this to come to a head, but then you have a draft, and minor league or reclamation project signings for another year or 2. Nothing earthshattering. Although it will be interesting to see what the plan is at C. I find it hard to believe the plan is Narvaez and Smith.

[Kyyle23]

Phil Rogers ‏@philgrogers 28m28 minutes ago

Idle thought: Could @whitesox land switch-hitting prodigy Josh Bell & Tyler Glasnow from Pirates in deal for Quintana & Todd Frazier?

 

Phil Rogers ‏@philgrogers 26m26 minutes ago

@whitesox want Austin Meadows in Jose Quintana deal but Josh Bell also fits the need for young hitters w/big upside.

 

please stop idle thoughting after you browse twitter, Phil