soxforlife05 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) I wasn't crazy about return from the Sale deal but this is a really good deal for a guy in Eaton who likely peaked. Just need to get back positional prospects mostly in all other trades now. If Kopech can come through as a starter at least we should be set with pitchers, need to draft position players in Rd 1 with our hopefully top 3 overall pick next few years. Edited December 8, 2016 by soxforlife05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donaldo Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 I love this trade, but I think we've acquired enough pitching. We need more position players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 07:16 PM) The value of a closer is higher than ever thanks to the Royals winning in 2015. That's not evidence that prospects are worth less now. The fact is, you can't get a number of teams' prospects anymore. There are so many off limits players in every org now. Snap out of it, dude. DBag fans would love to believe that...Dansby says 'hi' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:21 PM) I wasn't crazy about return from the Sale deal but this is a really good deal for a guy in Eaton who likely peaked. Just need to get back positional prospects mostly in all other trades now. Or else what? You take whatever talent you get and move whatever you need to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:20 PM) The #1 prospect in an organization that has a championship caliber major league team which traded for a staff Ace. Your nonsense is off the rails. Prospects get more attention than ever before, there is no doubt about that. They have become their own subculture to the point where the numbers on the list seem to matter more than actual team make up. What isn't up for debate is that they buy less than they ever have before. At no point in baseball history have teams had to bundle up so many top guys to get a good player back from another team. Even some garbage players were bringing back top prospects at this deadline. There is example after example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (Wanne @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:22 PM) DBag fans would love to believe that...Dansby says 'hi' Seriously, what the hell is happening here? SS2k5 acting like he just suffered a traumatic brain injury and you just showing your rear as you have no idea what you are talking about. This is a joyous day for White Sox fans. If you don't see it, re-evaluate your fandom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 If you don't like this trade, you need to re-evaluate this deal. This is a fantastic deal with so much upside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 08:21 PM) That's his problem...command. The stuff is there, let's hope Coop can fix him. Read a postseason interview with Giolito and he said the same thing about himself...he was loosing command of his offspeed stuff thanks to mechanical issues. He became way too reliant on his fastball (like 70% of pitches in ML) and, due to lack of movement on that fb, he was getting hammered. Again, Sox are the right organization for these guys to figure these things out. I have no problems with the struggles of both centerpieces in their cup of coffee last year. Both are still very young for MLB and it will take more than a bad month to derail their elite status as prospects. Now, if they both suck all the way through '17 we have a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:24 PM) Seriously, what the hell is happening here? SS2k5 acting like he just suffered a traumatic brain injury and you just showing your rear as you have no idea what you are talking about. This is a joyous day for White Sox fans. If you don't see it, re-evaluate your fandom. Apparently your fandom is based on the BA rankings, and not what is going on with the actual major league team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:23 PM) Prospects get more attention than ever before, there is no doubt about that. They have become their own subculture to the point where the numbers on the list seem to matter more than actual team make up. What isn't up for debate is that they buy less than they ever have before. At no point in baseball history have teams had to bundle up so many top guys to get a good player back from another team. Even some garbage players were bringing back top prospects at this deadline. There is example after example. If prospects are really undervalued right now... Isn't it good that Hahn is raking them in? What exactly is your complaint here? Everyone, including other GM's, seem to think the nats got fleeced. What do you think the Sox could or should have gotten for Eaton if this was a bad move? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:26 PM) Apparently your fandom is based on the BA rankings, and not what is going on with the actual major league team. You're as clueless as the people who looked at the Cubs fan five years ago and thought "WHY DIDN'T THE CUBS SIGN PUJOLS?!" This thread will be hilarious to look back on in three or four seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Something I like is the Sox seemingly bought low on Giolito and Moncada due to them slumping for a month in the majors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 11:48 PM) Disagree. This is the definition of overhyping. Our current rotation had far more "potential" in the sense that you had Q/Sale/Rodon plus the Adams / Hansen / Fulmer of the world. Odds of any of the guys we get being better then Sale / Q is pretty slim. Not knocking who we got as I'm a fan of what we are doing...but this is the epitome of overrating things. Definitely more depth to the rotation, but our rotations were never the problem (back end sure). OF course I don't get very excited over Adams / Fulmer (hoping they prove me wrong). Great great post. Total overhype. Sale was and is a true ace. Q is close to ace. Rodon has gained valuable experience and looks pretty stellar. These Nats guys are FAR from sure bets. QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:06 AM) Was doing a bit of research on these guys and Lopez's stuff is incredible. Having not followed the Nats this year, I didn't see either of these performances (or highlights). This kid has incredible stuff: I literally couldn't wipe the grin off my face while watching these videos. How has Giolito looked since he had Tommy John? Is he still a top pitcher prospect or not?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxforlife05 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:26 PM) Apparently your fandom is based on the BA rankings, and not what is going on with the actual major league team. If Q is dealt we need a lot of positional prospects. That's why I'd prefer the Yankees - they can offer a Torres, Mateo, Rutherford, Frazier, etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:26 PM) Apparently your fandom is based on the BA rankings, and not what is going on with the actual major league team. I don't care about the major league team in 2017. If you do, well, that's unfortunate, but I've had enough middling garbage baseball the last decade to fill me up for awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:26 PM) Apparently your fandom is based on the BA rankings, and not what is going on with the actual major league team. What has gone on the last 2-3 years with the mlb team that you have enjoyed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:26 AM) Apparently your fandom is based on the BA rankings, and not what is going on with the actual major league team. I love southsider's recent posts. The Sox front office should NEVER be given the benefit of the doubt with its track record. It's wait and see on both trades. Not one of the guys we've gotten is CANT MISS. It's 'maybe' on all of them. We shall see. I love the White Sox but after so many years of s***, you have to take southsider's position on all this activity. Southsider is our current superstar on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:23 PM) Prospects get more attention than ever before, there is no doubt about that. They have become their own subculture to the point where the numbers on the list seem to matter more than actual team make up. What isn't up for debate is that they buy less than they ever have before. At no point in baseball history have teams had to bundle up so many top guys to get a good player back from another team. Even some garbage players were bringing back top prospects at this deadline. There is example after example. Please provide examples. In years past, I could go back and find lousy relievers who had huge hauls...that happens less then ever now. You mentioned Chapman and Miller...two of the most dynamic relievers in an a recent era where the value on that type of pitcher had never been higher (and the value they brought to their respective teams in the post-season was huge). Jeff Shaw was dealt for Paul Konerko (a mediocre closer for a guy who was one of the best prospects in the game). Tigers had the horrendous deal that included Smoltz and others. Look at how many prospects the Sox got back in the white flag trade (despite the fact that in reality, not a lot of really good players moved, especially when you consider those guys were all on expiring contracts). Evidence says the contrary although I can see your emotions are getting far in the way of this. But you are right on one thing. PRospects get MORE attention now then ever before and as part of that..they are more valued then ever before. People talk about guys who have never played in the game having more "surplus" value then stars because they completely downplay the bust rate. With all the advanced metrics and further analytics available, it is the veteran players who actually are undervalued. Kenny, if we went back to him having a great farm system, would destroy in an era like this (his problem was he had already depleted all those resources). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:28 AM) What has gone on the last 2-3 years with the mlb team that you have enjoyed? You can't objectively talk about the last 4 years because of who our manager was. Robin was that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:27 PM) Great great post. Total overhype. Sale was and is a true ace. Q is close to ace. Rodon has gained valuable experience and looks pretty stellar. These Nats guys are FAR from sure bets. How has Giolito looked since he had Tommy John? Is he still a top pitcher prospect or not?? He's good enough that he was drafted in the 1st round when the Nats knew he needed the surgery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:27 PM) If prospects are really undervalued right now... Isn't it good that Hahn is raking them in? What exactly is your complaint here? Everyone, including other GM's, seem to think the nats got fleeced. What do you think the Sox could or should have gotten for Eaton if this was a bad move? They aren't the right ones. Of all of the top positional players out there, we have managed to get 1 in dealing our two top pieces. One. We got a secondary piece in Basabe. Instead we took a freaking minor league reliever as the last piece in the Sale deal. Take Robles instead of Lopez or Giolito. Get another position player from Boston instead of Diaz. If it doesn't work with them, look at Atlanta or LAD to get the players you need instead. We have spent how long with a team that can't hit or field. Why haven't we learned that lesson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 The quote below is enough to tell SS2K5 he's wrong. He's agreeing with Greg for crying out loud. QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:27 PM) Great great post. Total overhype. Sale was and is a true ace. Q is close to ace. Rodon has gained valuable experience and looks pretty stellar. These Nats guys are FAR from sure bets. How has Giolito looked since he had Tommy John? Is he still a top pitcher prospect or not?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 I enjoyed Tim Anderson last season along with Sale, Q and Rodon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:30 PM) I love southsider's recent posts. The Sox front office should NEVER be given the benefit of the doubt with its track record. It's wait and see on both trades. Not one of the guys we've gotten is CANT MISS. It's 'maybe' on all of them. We shall see. I love the White Sox but after so many years of s***, you have to take southsider's position on all this activity. Southsider is our current superstar on this site. Kiss of death Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Rizzo seemed pretty hellbent on cashing in on Giolito this week. I guess when you are rebuilding you probably just go for best package and not focus too much on position, but one thing I agree with ss2k5 on, is I would prefer them acquiring high end position players. Worry about the pitchers later when you are ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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