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Eaton to Nats/Giolito, Lopez, Dunning to Sox

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:39 PM)
Even better is 56 win teams.

You say you wish they'd learn their lesson at the same time you're pining for the last multiple years of garbage baseball. They were never going to flip from what they were to a serious contender in a year.

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QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:40 PM)
This isn't the crap that has failed for years though?

He doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

He'd rather sign or trade for free agents no one wants. There's a reason Eaton was so easily acquired. The Diamondbacks didn't want him anymore. We need to trade for and grow our own talent.

 

He has no reason to be upset. He's completely delusional.

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QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 07:24 PM)
Seriously, what the hell is happening here? SS2k5 acting like he just suffered a traumatic brain injury and you just showing your rear as you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

This is a joyous day for White Sox fans. If you don't see it, re-evaluate your fandom.

 

My point was you have deals like Dansby Swanson, Inciarte and Blair for Shelby effing Miller!...how in the hell did that even happen?!??!?! How the hell was Swanson in that deal. DBag fans out here are still livid. So regardless of if they're more or less coveted...you have a ridiculous deal like this happen! I agree prospects are coveted...but who's running the show changes the dynamics. My fandom is fine...thanks for caring tho!

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 07:41 PM)
Sounds good on Giolito. Thanx for info. Why did Lopez only cost the Nats $17,000 to acquire? Sounds like he may not be a sure bet.

 

Let's hope that MLB execs don't apply your wondrous logic on player value to Q. He was only a MiLB FA after all, not a sure bet.

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QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:41 PM)
You say you wish they'd learn their lesson at the same time you're pining for the last multiple years of garbage baseball. They were never going to flip from what they were to a serious contender in a year.

 

They will never be a contender if they can't send a full roster out there. That is the lesson. Pitching is no good if you are losing 2-1 every night. We just spent years doing it. Sending out and getting more pitching doesn't fix the problem. It extends the problem.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:36 PM)
And they did it by loading up on position players. Bryant, Schwarber, Soler, Russell, Baez, etc. Notice a theme there? Then they spent money to get established pitching.

 

Don't judge the rebuild just yet. You can never have too much pitching depth.

 

We still have pieces to dangle for position players and more pitching.

 

Q could bring a really nice return, Frazier, Robertson, abreu, Jones, melky all have some value

 

We have the 11th overall pick in the 2017 draft, and likely a top 5 pick the next two seasons

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:39 PM)
No, I'd rather them learn their f***ing lesson versus doing the same damn crap that just failed.

You're entitled to your opinion on the rebuild and the two trades but this is just wrong. Just factually incorrect.

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QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:40 AM)
How many wins do you think a manager is worth? Hint: It's not many.

Cmon. Southsider could have taken a 23-10 team and kept it rolling. Robin, who I loved as a player and love his class and demeanor BTW, was a buffoon. We lose 1 heartbreaker ridiculous game and we all knew the team was finished. No offense to Robin, but we are talking a different class of bad manager here.

I truly believe the Sox had enough pitching and 'good' players to do much better than they did the last couple years.

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QUOTE (Wanne @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:41 PM)
My point was you have deals like Dansby Swanson, Inciarte and Blair for Shelby effing Miller!...how in the hell did that even happen?!??!?! How the hell was Swanson in that deal. DBag fans out here are still livid. So regardless of if they're more or less coveted...you have a ridiculous deal like this happen! I agree prospects are coveted...but who's running the show changes the dynamics. My fandom is fine...thanks for caring tho!

 

What is the front office that gave that all up for Shelby doing for a living right now.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:36 PM)
And they did it by loading up on position players. Bryant, Schwarber, Soler, Russell, Baez, etc. Notice a theme there? Then they spent money to get established pitching.

 

Other than Russell, they built those guys through the draft though. In trades, you get back the best package of players you can get. In the draft, if you like a pitcher and a hitter equally, you can choose to pick the hitter. I think that's a pretty big distinction here.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:42 AM)
They will never be a contender if they can't send a full roster out there. That is the lesson. Pitching is no good if you are losing 2-1 every night. We just spent years doing it. Sending out and getting more pitching doesn't fix the problem. It extends the problem.

He makes a good point. What is the infatuation with pitching pitching pitching? Then we had the best pitcher in America (Sale) and dealt him. We are a weird organization.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:43 PM)
Cmon. Southsider could have taken a 23-10 team and kept it rolling. Robin, who I loved as a player and love his class and demeanor BTW, was a buffoon. We lose 1 heartbreaker ridiculous game and we all knew the team was finished. No offense to Robin, but we are talking a different class of bad manager here.

I truly believe the Sox had enough pitching and 'good' players to do much better than they did the last couple years.

What evidence is there to suggest that putting a different manager in charge would make up enough games?

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 07:42 PM)
They will never be a contender if they can't send a full roster out there. That is the lesson. Pitching is no good if you are losing 2-1 every night. We just spent years doing it. Sending out and getting more pitching doesn't fix the problem. It extends the problem.

 

I kind of agree, but it's also very early in the rebuild and the Sox have two premium chips in Quintana and Jones. A lot could still be coming.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:42 PM)
They will never be a contender if they can't send a full roster out there. That is the lesson. Pitching is no good if you are losing 2-1 every night. We just spent years doing it. Sending out and getting more pitching doesn't fix the problem. It extends the problem.

That's not the lesson of the last decade, though. This isn't doing anything close to what that "plan" was.

 

They need to acquire more position players, I don't think anyone disagrees there, but we're two days into a multi year rebuild.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:45 PM)
He makes a good point. What is the infatuation with pitching pitching pitching? Then we had the best pitcher in America (Sale) and dealt him. We are a weird organization.

There are two positions in baseball that are essentially currency for trades: SS and P

 

You can't have too much currency.

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QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:45 AM)
What evidence is there to suggest that putting a different manager in charge would make up enough games?

There's absolutely no evidence. I just personally think he was so bad that you can't really judge anything correctly about the team's W/L record the past 3 seasons.

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QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 07:46 PM)
Love what I'm hearing about Dunning. Great trades. Keep em coming.

 

I guess Hahn was extra excited about Dunning during the MLB Network presser.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:46 PM)
There's absolutely no evidence. I just personally think he was so bad that you can't really judge anything correctly about the team's W/L record the past 3 seasons.

Then you are certainly wrong. There are no worthwhile experts that think Rick et al are doing the wrong thing.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 07:43 PM)
Cmon. Southsider could have taken a 23-10 team and kept it rolling. Robin, who I loved as a player and love his class and demeanor BTW, was a buffoon. We lose 1 heartbreaker ridiculous game and we all knew the team was finished. No offense to Robin, but we are talking a different class of bad manager here.

I truly believe the Sox had enough pitching and 'good' players to do much better than they did the last couple years.

 

The past is dead, it's not coming back. Embrace the future.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:39 PM)
No, I'd rather them learn their f***ing lesson versus doing the same damn crap that just failed. It isn't about the BA top 25. It is about the entire roster. They are too stupid to learn that lesson apparently.

 

You keep complaining about this, but the bottom line is no championship caliber team has ever been built JUST through a rebuild or JUST by drafting well or JUST by making good trades and getting good value for your players or JUST through free agency. It takes a combination of all of it to get the job done. So they don't get the hitters now? Okay, draft hitters. Buy hitters. When you're done with the rebuild process, take some of the surplus value you've built on your farm and trade for hitters. We know that JR is much more likely to pony up for a hitter than a pitcher, and you laughed earlier when I said get Harper and Machado, but he signed Belle to the biggest contract at the time and he tried to sign ARod to the biggest contract at that time.

 

It just doesn't make sense that you're so dead set on getting hitters rather than seeing that the Sox are actually doing it the right way for once. They're rebuilding, they need to get the most value they can, position be damned. They got 2 guys who could be TOR starters for Eaton, and all of MLB thinks Rizzo got fleeced. I even understand your position to an extent, the Sox don't have the best track record developing position players (though Semien and Anderson recently provide good counterexamples to that), but value is more important right now. There was no way the Sox would've gotten better value for Eaton than what the Nats gave up. I think you're rushing to judgement here instead of giving the whole thing time to play out.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:45 PM)
He makes a good point. What is the infatuation with pitching pitching pitching? Then we had the best pitcher in America (Sale) and dealt him. We are a weird organization.

 

We did get the #1 MLB prospect in return for Sale. Also a hard throwing righty with good promise. The next deal brought us the #1 MLB pitching prospect. Hahn isn't done. Stop the craziness.

 

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It makes sense to get the best deal on the table when doing a rebuild. Once you have all the pieces and a feel for what pieces fit your team you can trade the extra to fill holes.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 07:41 PM)
Sounds good on Giolito. Thanx for info. Why did Lopez only cost the Nats $17,000 to acquire? Sounds like he may not be a sure bet.

 

His fastball was topping out in the high 80's when he signed at age 18. He can now reach triple digits and sustainable high 90's.

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