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Al Lopez's Ghost

Teams have upped their offers in Q derby in the last week

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QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 25, 2017 -> 01:51 PM)
If by some miracle all these over-30 useless players the Sox have turn their careers around in dramatic fashion yes I'm sure they will all be easy to trade

 

When it was the deadline last year waiting until the offseason was a better move, now that its the offseason waiting until the deadline is the right idea. Its just a circular path of excuses for the front office, and now that they are on the verge of doing a halfhearted rebuild everything said last July is being contradicted to explain why "oh, they're just waiting for the right deal". The right deal for Robertson and Melky is any deal where the Sox aren't eating all of their money. If they wait on Robertson (who is absolutely terrible) they risk him becoming just a $20m anchor that has to be given a roster spot for two more season. Melky is less risky because he just walks for nothing in a year, but god at least get SOMETHING for him. Same goes for Frazier. Failing to get full value on these guys now isn't that important. What is important is for their positions to be freed up for young players to break in and get some PA's and the money that would've gone to them can be invested elsewhere in the org.

 

Can we stop being ridiculous please?

 

1. What's with your obsession with helping the Sox save money? Sure, it's for ownership to decide how much they really want to spend when they have no chance of winning right now .But, it's not something that affects the team winning or losing at all, be it now or in the future, if they hold on to Robertson and Melky until the deadline to see what they can get. Markets tend to improve by the deadline. Players who one would have thought didn't have much value before the season are dealt for a decent return at the deadline each and every season. By the time the Sox are ready to win, all of these contracts will have expired naturally, so it's not as if the money going to Melky or Robertson could be used towards acquiring some other major league talent you feel is better. With the new CBA's international spending caps, it's not as if they could pour the savings from ridding themselves of the Melky and Robertson contracts in to bigger spending on international prospects;

 

2. Forgetting the knee injury stuff etc.. the biggest difference in Robertson from 2016 vs prior years was the walks. Except we all know that Sox catchers in 2016 were by miles and miles the worst framers in the league, and the Statcast data shows that Robertson was hurt by that tremendously. So, with that and the knee injury, I'd bet on him being at his 2014-15 level again. If he gets that production, the Robertson is actually a nice bargain given the free agency relief market this winter. If he stays at his 2016 level, I'm not sure why we're acting like he was some horrible pitcher. He was still a pretty good reliever overall, and his contract, while certainly not a bargain anymore would also certainly not be some kind of albatross you're making it out to be, if again we compare it to what teams are paying for similar relievers (Brett Cecil, Mike Dunn etc...) on the open market;

 

3. Melky is a fine if slightly overpaid player, who could easily be traded at the deadline. He had an 800 OPS last season, and even w/ his horrendous fielding was worth 2.6 WAR. Similar players production-wise with similar salary obligations who were just traded at the 2016 deadline include Jay Bruce and Matt Kemp;

 

4. See the post I made just before this one as to why it makes absolutely less than zero chance to trade Frazier right now.

 

5. Why would you want to give young players PAs or IP in the majors well before the Sox are anywhere close to contending? Even assuming that it stunts players development to linger in the minors too long, it's not as if guys like Giolito and Moncada (and the rest of Sox prospects) are 100% major league ready today. I've yet to read an eval of them that says they can't benefit from being in the minors for a bit longer. So, if you think these guys are gonna be any good, why start their service clocks now, when Sox are 100% not winning anything anyway, and have them cost a ton of $ in arbitration when Sox start getting good, and then hit free agency sooner? Even if they are close to being at the point where they have nothing to gain from being in the minors, that's fine as long as the Sox other trade candidates are gone by July 31. Whichever prospect(s)it is you think benefits the organization by playing in the majors sooner rather than later will come up then. And even, if you think 1 or 2 need to be in the majors currently (for what reason, we will never know), I'm not sure who you think is on our current roster, whether we trade Melky, Robertson, Frazier before the season or not, that is going to block them. There are more than enough holes on Sox big league roster, that if it was the case that some of these young players needed to be up immediately there would be plenty of place for them to play.

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everyone just needs to be patient. a rebuild doesnt happen overnight, and whining about guys not being trading yet is just so tiresome to constantly read. it's like nothing will make you happy...

Been waiting since last July and only three guys have been traded. Its not supposed to be this slow.

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 25, 2017 -> 01:27 PM)
Might be time for a thread title change.

Agreed. Let's call it "come watch con the giolito say stupid things"

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QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 25, 2017 -> 01:40 PM)
Been waiting since last July and only three guys have been traded. Its not supposed to be this slow.

 

You make trades when the players and timing are right. Hasn't happened yet, and teams don't play games that count for about 10 weeks.

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QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 25, 2017 -> 11:40 AM)
Been waiting since last July and only three guys have been traded. Its not supposed to be this slow.

 

Says who? Based on what? It's clearly not happening that way so please share why it should be the opposite based on actual facts.

 

Also, remember the Cubs rebuild took multiple years, but I'm dying to know why the Sox rebuild should take 6-8 months

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Says who? Based on what? It's clearly not happening that way so please share why it should be the opposite based on actual facts.

 

Also, remember the Cubs rebuild took multiple years, but I'm dying to know why the Sox rebuild should take 6-8 months

Sox should have most of what wont be around in 3 years pretty much gone already, especially those are in their contract years and costing over $10m. This is not something ridiculous to ask for and it hardly means to the rebuild should all wrapped up by now. It shouldn't take a full calendar year to turn this ship around and embark on a new direction.

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QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 25, 2017 -> 02:11 PM)
Sox should have most of what wont be around in 3 years pretty much gone already, especially those are in their contract years and costing over $10m. This is not something ridiculous to ask for and it hardly means to the rebuild should all wrapped up by now. It shouldn't take a full calendar year to turn this ship around and embark on a new direction.

 

Based on what example? What team has traded something like 10 of their best players and got it done in a matter of a few months?

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QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 25, 2017 -> 02:11 PM)
Sox should have most of what wont be around in 3 years pretty much gone already, especially those are in their contract years and costing over $10m. This is not something ridiculous to ask for and it hardly means to the rebuild should all wrapped up by now. It shouldn't take a full calendar year to turn this ship around and embark on a new direction.

 

 

Which players should be traded right now?

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Based on what example? What team has traded something like 10 of their best players and got it done in a matter of a few months?

Not the White Sox! They've dealt two of their best players (for non-baseball reasons) and a crummy reliever.

 

I would be happy if they made just a couple more moves, like just get rid of Frazier and Robertson so Saladino can sink-or-swim at 3rd and Jones can try and close games. That would save them like $30m that could go into int'l pool or elsewhere and maybe net them one t30 guy. It'd also prove me wrong about why they dealt Sale and Eaton.

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QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 25, 2017 -> 12:19 PM)
Not the White Sox! They've dealt two of their best players (for non-baseball reasons) and a crummy reliever.

 

I would be happy if they made just a couple more moves, like just get rid of Frazier and Robertson so Saladino can sink-or-swim at 3rd and Jones can try and close games. That would save them like $30m that could go into int'l pool or elsewhere and maybe net them one t30 guy. It'd also prove me wrong about why they dealt Sale and Eaton.

 

he isnt going to answer this question or provide any sensible rationale. at this point he's just trolling

Edited by Fantl916

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QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 25, 2017 -> 04:11 PM)
Sox should have most of what wont be around in 3 years pretty much gone already, especially those are in their contract years and costing over $10m. This is not something ridiculous to ask for and it hardly means to the rebuild should all wrapped up by now. It shouldn't take a full calendar year to turn this ship around and embark on a new direction.

 

haste makes waste. they've been bad for the better part of a decade. Now is not the time to rush. We aren't even close to a "full calendar year" if that's your own particular criteria. The rebuild officially started with the Sale trade, that wasn't even two months ago.

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QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 25, 2017 -> 02:19 PM)
Not the White Sox! They've dealt two of their best players (for non-baseball reasons) and a crummy reliever.

 

I would be happy if they made just a couple more moves, like just get rid of Frazier and Robertson so Saladino can sink-or-swim at 3rd and Jones can try and close games. That would save them like $30m that could go into int'l pool or elsewhere and maybe net them one t30 guy. It'd also prove me wrong about why they dealt Sale and Eaton.

 

Essentially it has never been done, but the Sox are a failure for not panicking and doing it.

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QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 25, 2017 -> 12:28 PM)
Yea I'm just trolling GOT YOU GUYS haha I was kidding all along.

 

i never said you were kidding, you're just whining, providing no factual rationale or any historical comp. you're harping on something that's never been done in a way you're suggesting and stating that the Sox are garbage because of it. when asked to provide information, you spin it, whine some more, and restate the same thing you've been stating for the last month on the 2 quintana threads.

 

aka, you're trolling.

 

you can certainly make your stance, whatever. i want them to make moves too. but at some point your argument grows tiresome if your defense for everything is "im taking my ball and going home (RH sucks because they're not taking lowball offers)"

Edited by Fantl916

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QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Jan 25, 2017 -> 02:53 PM)
Salary dump.

 

My favorite prank over the years was when Phillies trade Kyle Kendrick for Kobayashi the hot dog eater. If we could get similar value in return, I call that a win.

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QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Jan 25, 2017 -> 02:59 PM)
My favorite prank over the years was when Phillies trade Kyle Kendrick for Kobayashi the hot dog eater. If we could get similar value in return, I call that a win.

We couldn't trade Con te Giolito for an empty bag of peanuts. He's a sell low right now.

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You have to think of a rebuild as a philosophy that shapes your decision making process as you move forward through time. It's like a photo-filter that impacts decisions until a new state of the franchise becomes apparent and a new plan is required. A rebuild is not a construction project where you come in and demo phase 1, then remodel over the next couple of weeks, then start to add finishes in a massive rush against the clock. This plan ALWAYS fails. A mindset like that puts too much faith in the options that exist NOW being the long-term solutions that will sustain your organization's success year after year. Do we really think that the long-term fix for sustainable dominance (like we had in the 90's) can be obtained simply by acquiring as many names as possible from the winter 2017 Baseball America's top prospects list?! Impatience is putting too many of us into that position--don't get caught putting too many eggs in the "what's available NOW" basket. What if next year's list is even better? You gotta think bigger picture and apply that rebuild mindset to all decisions and strategically add the right pieces each year--not just because scouts rate a guy's contact rate at a "60" (heck, we need better contact hitters what are they waiting for!?!?!?)

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QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Jan 25, 2017 -> 03:05 PM)
We couldn't trade Con te Giolito for an empty bag of peanuts. He's a sell low right now.

 

Sometimes you just have to pull the trigger. See the Sale and Eaton trade.

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QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 25, 2017 -> 03:11 PM)
Well good to see the FO office sycophants are out in full force. They've done so much to earn your trust over the years I'm sure you'll be rewarded!

Let's be real, this direction is enough to know someone in the front office watches baseball and knows what isn't working.

 

The Eaton trade was a great one by Hahn.

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I also dont see what about my idea of starting over lacks patience. I mean you guys are the ones who want them to field a competitive team in 2017 not me.

Edited by Con te Giolito

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