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President Donald Trump: The Thread

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The president going public with lies is a huge deal. He's the most powerful man in the free world. The media isnt skewing his words, he is literally typing lies for the entire world to see. He is undermining the office as well as the entire country.

Edited by RockRaines

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 14, 2017 -> 10:28 AM)
The president going public with lies is a huge deal. He's the most powerful man in the free world. The media isnt skewing his words, he is literally typing lies for the entire world to see. He is undermining the office as well as the entire country.

 

The President flat out lying to the American people lost real meaning decades ago. Granted Trump is taking it to new heights, but it is the same thing as always, the party in power makes excuses for it, while the party out of power is outraged.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 14, 2017 -> 10:36 AM)
The President flat out lying to the American people lost real meaning decades ago. Granted Trump is taking it to new heights, but it is the same thing as always, the party in power makes excuses for it, while the party out of power is outraged.

I really hate this perspective. First, Presidents have lied for centuries, not decades. Second, Trump is doing it to a point that is not just higher, but has outright launched into the stratosphere. None of Obama, Bush, or anyone before them has done anything remotely close to what he and his administration are doing. It is NOT the same, nor is it just some next step. It's extreme.

 

 

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QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 14, 2017 -> 10:42 AM)
I really hate this perspective. First, Presidents have lied for centuries, not decades. Second, Trump is doing it to a point that is not just higher, but has outright launched into the stratosphere. None of Obama, Bush, or anyone before them has done anything remotely close to what he and his administration are doing. It is NOT the same, nor is it just some next step. It's extreme.

 

Granted, I don't know the history as well for the earlier ones, but the one I know for sure is starting with FDR and not trying to get us into WWII, while actively plotting with Churchill to get us into WWII. That is why I went with decades. Though it would be easy to argue that lies trying to get us into WWII, Vietnam, and maybe even Iraq are bigger than anything Trump has said so far. I think the reason Trump stands out is he lies for no reason, while most of the most famous Presidential liars through history lied with cold calculation. I can't give Trump that kind of credit, at least not yet. I think he is more pathological about it.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 14, 2017 -> 10:47 AM)
Granted, I don't know the history as well for the earlier ones, but the one I know for sure is starting with FDR and not trying to get us into WWII, while actively plotting with Churchill to get us into WWII. That is why I went with decades. Though it would be easy to argue that lies trying to get us into WWII, Vietnam, and maybe even Iraq are bigger than anything Trump has said so far. I think the reason Trump stands out is he lies for no reason, while most of the most famous Presidential liars through history lied with cold calculation. I can't give Trump that kind of credit, at least not yet. I think he is more pathological about it.

That's certainly a key point - Trump doesn't lie as part of pushing some policy or effort over the line, he lies for some combination of protecting his own ego and egging on his hard core followers.

 

But I think with Iraq - and I can't believe I am semi-defending Bush here - it's not a matter of the big lie. It was that Bush was a weak executive who was pushed into the new world order mindset but his own cabinet, who then bullied CIA into trying to find justification for what they already wanted to do, and that's when they stumbled onto Curveball and his info. Bush was given that info, probably assuming the CIA had done what the are supposed to do, which is be skeptics. Instead, they were cheerleaders over edgy information - it was all backwards. Bush lied, but I think he did it without truly realizing what was going on. To be clear - I still lay plenty of blame on Bush for the debacle that was Iraq, but I also blame Rumsfeld and Cheney, and the CIA and their management, and Congress.

 

Trump just sits on the can at 5am and spews out information that is outright, clearly and obviously, false. And then his administration goes to work trying to make blue look like red. It's bizarre and scary and dangerous. He lies at a level and frequency unprecedented for a President.

 

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QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 14, 2017 -> 10:53 AM)
That's certainly a key point - Trump doesn't lie as part of pushing some policy or effort over the line, he lies for some combination of protecting his own ego and egging on his hard core followers.

 

But I think with Iraq - and I can't believe I am semi-defending Bush here - it's not a matter of the big lie. It was that Bush was a weak executive who was pushed into the new world order mindset but his own cabinet, who then bullied CIA into trying to find justification for what they already wanted to do, and that's when they stumbled onto Curveball and his info. Bush was given that info, probably assuming the CIA had done what the are supposed to do, which is be skeptics. Instead, they were cheerleaders over edgy information - it was all backwards. Bush lied, but I think he did it without truly realizing what was going on. To be clear - I still lay plenty of blame on Bush for the debacle that was Iraq, but I also blame Rumsfeld and Cheney, and the CIA and their management, and Congress.

 

Trump just sits on the can at 5am and spews out information that is outright, clearly and obviously, false. And then his administration goes to work trying to make blue look like red. It's bizarre and scary and dangerous. He lies at a level and frequency unprecedented for a President.

 

That's why I gave Iraq a maybe, versus Nixon and Vietnam and Roosevelt and WWII.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 14, 2017 -> 10:36 AM)
The President flat out lying to the American people lost real meaning decades ago. Granted Trump is taking it to new heights, but it is the same thing as always, the party in power makes excuses for it, while the party out of power is outraged.

Taking it to new heights in both the kind of lie and the frequency. Its not normal.

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 14, 2017 -> 11:28 AM)
Taking it to new heights in both the kind of lie and the frequency. Its not normal.

Yes, there are some things they have to lie about, but Trump lies about everything and anything, and his underlings defend it with more lies. Despite saying Obama tapped his phones at Trump Tower calling him a sick and/or bad guy, he really didn't mean Obama had his phones wiretapped.

 

The lie is one thing. The spin is what makes it even worse. Accusing the former President of breaking the law should be serious stuff.

 

Trump thinks it's like reality TV. Just lie for the pub and the sympathy. I'm sure some on the right will defend him making up wire taps, but they aren't dealing in reality.

 

He also said everyone would have better and cheaper health care.

 

 

I'd love to see how he would do on Maury. He might be so messed up he doesn't think he's lying.

Edited by Dick Allen

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Maddow claims to have the tax returns. My feeling is they won't be as good as I want them to be.

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QUOTE (G&T @ Mar 14, 2017 -> 06:47 PM)
Maddow claims to have the tax returns. My feeling is they won't be as good as I want them to be.

It's from 2005. Yawn.

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As intentionally contrarian as raBBit is being, he has a point with the drone program. It's absolutely disgusting and reprehensible, and gets relatively little critical coverage.

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So Donald Trump paid 25% and 38 million dollars in taxes and Bernie Sanders pays a 12.5% tax rate. Time for the biggest fraud in American Politics to start paying his fair share. Rachel Maddow made an absolute fool out of herself tonight.

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QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Mar 15, 2017 -> 12:02 AM)
So Donald Trump paid 25% and 38 million dollars in taxes and Bernie Sanders pays a 12.5% tax rate. Time for the biggest fraud in American Politics to start paying his fair share. Rachel Maddow made an absolute fool out of herself tonight.

 

Sigh

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 15, 2017 -> 03:46 AM)
I bet Trump's own team leaked his return.

It's his copy so yep. That's why it's two pages in 2005 as well. It's hilarious

 

He accomplished two things. Steering the narrative away from his horrible healthcare plan and his overall ineptitude as well as emboldening his zealots. There are supporters out there that won't and don't care it's from 11 years ago and it's only two pages.

Edited by RockRaines

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QUOTE (farmteam @ Mar 14, 2017 -> 10:09 PM)
As intentionally contrarian as raBBit is being, he has a point with the drone program. It's absolutely disgusting and reprehensible, and gets relatively little critical coverage.

I agree it's a problem, however, I disagree that it gets relatively little coverage. Maybe I'm tuned into reading the stories more, but I've read quite a few on the topic in mainstream outlets.

 

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QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 15, 2017 -> 07:55 AM)
I agree it's a problem, however, I disagree that it gets relatively little coverage. Maybe I'm tuned into reading the stories more, but I've read quite a few on the topic in mainstream outlets.

 

You're tuned in.

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QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Mar 15, 2017 -> 01:02 AM)
So Donald Trump paid 25% and 38 million dollars in taxes and Bernie Sanders pays a 12.5% tax rate. Time for the biggest fraud in American Politics to start paying his fair share. Rachel Maddow made an absolute fool out of herself tonight.

 

lol stop your trolling crap. Sanders makes less than $250k a year.

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Maddow did make an ass of herself though. Big, actually important stories just drop without a bunch of build-up and hype.

 

That said, if/when Trump and the rest of the GOP push for getting rid of the AMT, Democrats could potentially point to this 1040 from 12 years ago and point out that he'd have only paid less than 4% in taxes without the AMT. I'm sure they'll mess it up somehow, though.

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 15, 2017 -> 06:45 AM)
It's his copy so yep. That's why it's two pages in 2005 as well. It's hilarious

 

He accomplished two things. Steering the narrative away from his horrible healthcare plan and his overall ineptitude as well as emboldening his zealots. There are supporters out there that won't and don't care it's from 11 years ago and it's only two pages.

Don't forget Russia. There is imminent news about investigating ties to Russia.

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QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Mar 15, 2017 -> 08:53 AM)
Maddow did make an ass of herself though. Big, actually important stories just drop without a bunch of build-up and hype.

 

That said, if/when Trump and the rest of the GOP push for getting rid of the AMT, Democrats could potentially point to this 1040 from 12 years ago and point out that he'd have only paid less than 4% in taxes without the AMT. I'm sure they'll mess it up somehow, though.

Thats what she does though. Her show is hard to watch, she does a 15 min intro that is awful.

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In a Repudiation of Trump, a Senior House Leader Rejects Wiretap Claim

 

WASHINGTON — In a striking repudiation of President Trump, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, a Republican, said on Wednesday that he had seen no indication of Mr. Trump's claim on Twitter that former President Barack Obama wiretapped his phones in Trump Tower during the 2016 presidential campaign.

 

“We don’t have any evidence that that took place,’’ Representative Devin Nunes, Republican of California and chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, said at a news conference on Capitol Hill. “In fact, I don’t believe — in the last week of time, people we’ve talked to, I don’t think there was an actual tap of Trump Tower.”

 

If Mr. Trump’s Twitter claim is to be taken literally, Mr. Nunes said, “then clearly the president is wrong.”

 

Even a member of Mr. Trump’s cabinet, Attorney General Jeff Sessions, raised questions about the claim. In Richmond, Va., he told reporters that he had never given Mr. Trump any reason to believe he had been wiretapped.

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I mean Trump had to go back 11 years to find a tax return where he paid taxes. Can you imagine how bad the others are?

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