Soha Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Mar 13, 2017 -> 10:33 AM) https://www.google.com/amp/yanksgoyard.com/...eepstakes-2/amp Lol, sure. That's why Hahn has went ahead and settled for less than he thinks Q is worth. Wait, he hasn't, so I guess the Sox are in a position of power. Man, that writer is delusional. Cracked me up so I had to share. I mean, Hahn does have an incentive to want to move Quintana now. I think there's a legit chance that keeping Q on the team until the all-star break or trading deadline will result in the Sox falling out of the Seth Beer sweepstakes. They have to decide is it worth it to squeeze every last bit out of a Q trade - even if it costs them dearly in the 2018 draft? It really depends if there are or have been any offers that are close, and we as fans have no way of knowing that answer. This all said, Q talking about being motivated to make a return trip to the all-star game, on top of his super pitching early on so far...it has me almost afraid of moving him. I could see him getting moved to the Yankees and winning 20 games this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 QUOTE (Soha @ Mar 13, 2017 -> 11:05 AM) I mean, Hahn does have an incentive to want to move Quintana now. I think there's a legit chance that keeping Q on the team until the all-star break or trading deadline will result in the Sox falling out of the Seth Beer sweepstakes. They have to decide is it worth it to squeeze every last bit out of a Q trade - even if it costs them dearly in the 2018 draft? It really depends if there are or have been any offers that are close, and we as fans have no way of knowing that answer. This all said, Q talking about being motivated to make a return trip to the all-star game, on top of his super pitching early on so far...it has me almost afraid of moving him. I could see him getting moved to the Yankees and winning 20 games this year. According to Hahn, he has not had any offers that were close. The '18 draft position is not as important as getting Max value for Q in a trade. Q is a pitcher that can only affect the outcome of 30-33 games per year and pitches for a team that is notorious for giving him no run support. Trading Q now will not result in too many more losses than trading him in June/July. Stay the course, remain patient and reap the rewards come June/July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 I feel like Torres is the hold up in this deal. Hahn needs to get him back and Cashman is reluctant to throw him in, similar to what happened with Dombroski and Moncada. I don't even think Frazier is acceptable as a headliner for what Hahn wants to get done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Mar 13, 2017 -> 12:02 PM) I feel like Torres is the hold up in this deal. Hahn needs to get him back and Cashman is reluctant to throw him in, similar to what happened with Dombroski and Moncada. I don't even think Frazier is acceptable as a headliner for what Hahn wants to get done. It wouldn't shock me if Cashman considered him "untouchable" (even though I don't think he should be for a player of Q's caliber). In all honesty, a 4 or 5 player package headlined by Frazier/Rutherford would be enough for me in all likelihood assuming the other guys are somewhat decent (maybe Mateo, Andujar, Fowler, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Mar 13, 2017 -> 11:11 AM) It wouldn't shock me if Cashman considered him "untouchable" (even though I don't think he should be for a player of Q's caliber). In all honesty, a 4 or 5 player package headlined by Frazier/Rutherford would be enough for me in all likelihood assuming the other guys are somewhat decent (maybe Mateo, Andujar, Fowler, etc). Yankees prospects are perpetually overrated Torres is likely viewed as untouchable, which hurts the chances of a deal coming together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) I would assume Quintana will face the Cubs on Friday after the Thursday off day. edit: actually not at this moment https://twitter.com/JJStankevitz/status/841326188664508417 Edited March 13, 2017 by flavum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Mar 13, 2017 -> 12:02 PM) I feel like Torres is the hold up in this deal. Hahn needs to get him back and Cashman is reluctant to throw him in, similar to what happened with Dombroski and Moncada. I don't even think Frazier is acceptable as a headliner for what Hahn wants to get done. Not high on Frazier myself. I'm hoping for something along the lines of Torres/Rutherford/Montgomery/Fowler for Q. I really don't think asking for two highly ranked A ball players is asking too much as a headliner in a trade for Q. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Mar 13, 2017 -> 12:02 PM) I feel like Torres is the hold up in this deal. Hahn needs to get him back and Cashman is reluctant to throw him in, similar to what happened with Dombroski and Moncada. I don't even think Frazier is acceptable as a headliner for what Hahn wants to get done. Well there was a rumor at one point of the ask being Frazier, Mateo, & Severino. Whether that's true or not I don't know, but there are deals to made without Torres. IMO, Hahn would be absolutely crazy to pass on a Frazier & Rutherford headlined package. And I think an argument could be made for a couple other players being a suitable co-headliner as long as Frazier is in the mix. Hell, the rumored ask is interesting at the very least. Severino was the Yankees #1 prospect and #35 overall just a few years ago and as bmags pointed out earlier Mateo could be an interesting CF idea. If you're scouts are still high on both of those guys, that might be a package worth taking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Mar 13, 2017 -> 12:24 PM) Not high on Frazier myself. I'm hoping for something along the lines of Torres/Rutherford/Montgomery/Fowler for Q. I really don't think asking for two highly ranked A ball players is asking too much as a headliner in a trade for Q. No chance Torres goes anywhere IMO. Edited March 13, 2017 by Y2JImmy0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Mar 13, 2017 -> 11:46 AM) No chance Torres goes anywhere IMO. Agreed Moncada would have been untouchable if it were not for Benintendi and Devers also being in the Red Sox farm system Sox best bet is really to wait until mid season to swing a deal. Some prospects will raise their value, while others will falter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Mar 13, 2017 -> 12:46 PM) No chance Torres goes anywhere IMO. At this point I would agree. Now if the Yanks are in the WC hunt come July then that could change. I'm not counting on Torres to be a headliner, just wishful thinking. Realistically I think a package of Mateo/Rutherford headlining could suit both teams well. It's just a matter of filling out the rest of the trade. Something like Mateo/Rutherford/Montgomery/Fowler + flier might work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 As for why the White Sox would possibly target a shortstop in a deal for Quintana? In 2016, White Sox shortstops combined to post a .707 OPS--below league average for American League shortstops. http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2017/0..._to_yankee.html Wow. It's like the Sox don't have a kid named Tim Anderson at SS. Not that the Sox wouldn't be interested in Torres/Mateo but the failure to mention TA in the article tells me the writer doesn't know much about baseball outside of the Bronx. I really need to find better things to read in my free time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 QUOTE (raBBit @ Mar 13, 2017 -> 12:40 PM) A guy who plays SS can likely play any position on the diamond outside of the battery. The Sox aren't going to turn down a SS prospect they love because of TA. You get all the best players up the middle and hope you have to worry about their positions later. Exactly, your shortstops are generally some of the most athletic guys on the field, and most could play several other positions if asked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Yeah, but that article was implying the sox would deal for a SS because they need to get better shortstop production. I doubt that is their rationale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Mar 13, 2017 -> 12:31 PM) Well there was a rumor at one point of the ask being Frazier, Mateo, & Severino. Whether that's true or not I don't know, but there are deals to made without Torres. IMO, Hahn would be absolutely crazy to pass on a Frazier & Rutherford headlined package. And I think an argument could be made for a couple other players being a suitable co-headliner as long as Frazier is in the mix. Hell, the rumored ask is interesting at the very least. Severino was the Yankees #1 prospect and #35 overall just a few years ago and as bmags pointed out earlier Mateo could be an interesting CF idea. If you're scouts are still high on both of those guys, that might be a package worth taking. I am not sure there is a deal to be made with the Yankees without Torres, if they do not include him I don't think they would beat a package from the Pirate (Meadows)/Astros(Martes/Tucker)/Braves (Albies) or Cardinals (Kelly+depth). Frazier is a nice player, but too much swing and miss in his game. Rutherford is much to far away to be considered a key piece. The rest of their prospects are fine, but nothing really jumps out about them to me. Mateo's stock is down, Andujar may be a pitcher by the end of the year. There is not a lot of quality depth to me in the Yankees system right now, if they don't throw in Torres, someone like the Braves or Cardinals could jump in with the depth in their systems an surpass what the Yankees could offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 QUOTE (raBBit @ Mar 13, 2017 -> 01:40 PM) A guy who plays SS can likely play any position on the diamond outside of the battery. The Sox aren't going to turn down a SS prospect they love because of TA. You get all the best players up the middle and hope you have to worry about their positions later. Not really seeing your. I never said the Sox would turn down a chance to get guys like Torres or Mateo. I just pointed out that the writer makes the Sox sound as though they don't have a SS and are in desperate need of one, which is simply not true. I've been saying all winter long the Sox should grab hitting talent regardless of the position they play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Mar 13, 2017 -> 01:10 PM) I am not sure there is a deal to be made with the Yankees without Torres, if they do not include him I don't think they would beat a package from the Pirate (Meadows)/Astros(Martes/Tucker)/Braves (Albies) or Cardinals (Kelly+depth). Frazier is a nice player, but too much swing and miss in his game. Rutherford is much to far away to be considered a key piece. The rest of their prospects are fine, but nothing really jumps out about them to me. Mateo's stock is down, Andujar may be a pitcher by the end of the year. There is not a lot of quality depth to me in the Yankees system right now, if they don't throw in Torres, someone like the Braves or Cardinals could jump in with the depth in their systems an surpass what the Yankees could offer. http://www.minorleagueball.com/2016/12/6/1...spects-for-2017 I'm going to disagree with you on that point. The Yankees have one of the deepest farms in the mlb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Mar 13, 2017 -> 03:35 PM) http://www.minorleagueball.com/2016/12/6/1...spects-for-2017 I'm going to disagree with you on that point. The Yankees have one of the deepest farms in the mlb. It's deep but are they willing to trade two of their top 5 guys to get a deal done? It doesn't appear so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Mar 13, 2017 -> 02:40 PM) It's deep but are they willing to trade two of their top 5 guys to get a deal done? It doesn't appear so. This appears to be the case for all teams, which is why a deal isn't done with anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Mar 13, 2017 -> 02:35 PM) http://www.minorleagueball.com/2016/12/6/1...spects-for-2017 I'm going to disagree with you on that point. The Yankees have one of the deepest farms in the mlb. They are one of the few with Depth AND Quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 13, 2017 -> 02:11 PM) They are one of the few with Depth AND Quality. And a severe need of starting pitching. They're the partner that makes the most sense by far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Mar 13, 2017 -> 02:35 PM) http://www.minorleagueball.com/2016/12/6/1...spects-for-2017 I'm going to disagree with you on that point. The Yankees have one of the deepest farms in the mlb. I disagree with their assessment, the Yankees perennially have one of the most overrated farm systems in baseball. I like some of their guys like Acevedo, but I have seen their top guys come up (or get traded) and flame out despite having what has been consistently a top 10 system. I know people are high on the Yankees system, but outside of their guys who are considered to be untouchable I do not see much in the way of impact talent, nothing worth a top 10 pitcher in Q. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcpweiner Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) Just spitballing here: If we're to use Fangraphs' ballparking of Quintana's surplus value ($80 to $90 million), and then compare that to today's "Valuing the 2017 Top Prospects" list, then what seems to make sense would be something along the lines of: Clint Frazier ($38M), Blake Rutherford ($38M), and Justus Sheffield ($14M). Maybe another lottery ticket to boot. Something like that seems right to me. (Meanwhile, my personal favorite move would be to find a way to pry Austin Meadows ($70M) and Glasnow ($22M) from the Pirates, but it'd likely be just those two.) (Also: The other crazy thing is we somehow got $129M back plus Basabe / Diaz for Sale.) Edited March 13, 2017 by rcpweiner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 QUOTE (raBBit @ Mar 13, 2017 -> 03:51 PM) I agree with the Yankees having an overrated system as often as they have a highly touted system but I think that's less true this time around. The guys they got back from Cleveland and the Cubs were highly touted before the Yankees got them. On top of that, the Yanks have objectively hit home runs with their last two first rounders in Rutherford and Kaprelian. Mateo definitely seems overrated though. I am not as big on Frazier as the consensus either but that's splitting hairs. Not to mention the White Sox also had interest in the bolded even before they were Yankees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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