South Side Fireworks Man Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Mar 31, 2017 -> 11:08 AM) I think the infield defense will be better than last year. Catching will be better. CF defense will be much better. Melky is Melky in LF. RF is a big downgrade, but I expect Avi will DH his fair share (Melky too). I don't think the defense will be THAT bad, at least initially. Pitching? Meh. Bullpen is fine to pretty solid. Q and Rodon are just fine as 1 and 2. I think Gonzalez is fine as a #5. Shields will be better, but not good. I think Holland will be a fine #4. Basically we have a #1, and #3 (with the chance to be a #1 as well), and three #4/#5 types. You have contract years from both Melky and Frazier. I expect both to be pretty solid, and Frazier to be much better than last year. They should both be motivated. Abreu was awful in the first half last year - I expect him to be much better. I am excited to see Saladino out there most days and think at worst he is a 1 WAR player. Managing will be better. I think the team may have a bit of a chip on its shoulder with how bad everyone thinks they will be. Really only subtracted 2 players off last years team, and while they were both very good, one only impacted 20% of the games, and both were questionable clubhouse guys (I admittedly loved them both). I just don't think this team is that bad. I don't think they're going to compete for the division or anything, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see they get off to a decent start. I know I for one will be rooting for wins and hoping for good performances for all team members until its obvious that they suck. I just can't root for my team to lose. The chances of us getting Seth Beer are minimal. I pretty much agree with all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 31, 2017 -> 11:44 AM) 69, just because. nice Edited March 31, 2017 by Sleepy Harold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Mar 31, 2017 -> 12:36 PM) If this team wins between 73-78 games the season was a tremendous failure. The whole reason to do this is to be really terrible. Haha, I don't get this line of thinking. A tremendous failure? What would be a tremendous failure is the guys with trade value sucking. What would also be a failure is guys like Rodon and Anderson not making a step forward. Rodon, ya know, a top 3 pick (probably should have been #1)...the same thing you are praying for losses over. A failure would not finding ML regulars out of any of the fringe guys that will see playing time this year. A failure would be guys like Moncada, Giolito, and Lopez not having success at the major league level. Those are failure. The White Sox are not getting Seth Beer. Anything other than that is not a failure. The Sox need to develop their young talent and hope that some guys that are on the fringe turn into good ballplayers. That is what will make this season a success, and adding as much talent as possible from trades for Q, Frazier, Robertson, Jones, Jennings, Melky, Gonzales and Holland. We need those guys to be as good as possible for that to happen. These things will all require the Sox to not be terrible at baseball. That is far more important than picking 3rd instead of 8th or 9th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Q wins Cy Young, Abreu MVP, Moncada/Giolito/Lopez finish top 3 for ROY. 90+ wins. Sox lose World Series to Cubs in Game 7 on an Avi error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Mar 31, 2017 -> 01:32 PM) Q wins Cy Young, Abreu MVP, Moncada/Giolito/Lopez finish top 3, for ROY. 90+ wins. Sox lose World Series to Cubs in Game 7 on an Avi error Avi would be dead before he got back to the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 31, 2017 -> 01:33 PM) Avi would be dead before he got back to the bench. To his credit, with his work ethic he'd be back by 2018. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Wait I think when we signed Adolfo that I said he'd be 2017 ROY, sorry Yoan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Mar 31, 2017 -> 01:29 PM) Haha, I don't get this line of thinking. A tremendous failure? What would be a tremendous failure is the guys with trade value sucking. What would also be a failure is guys like Rodon and Anderson not making a step forward. Rodon, ya know, a top 3 pick (probably should have been #1)...the same thing you are praying for losses over. A failure would not finding ML regulars out of any of the fringe guys that will see playing time this year. A failure would be guys like Moncada, Giolito, and Lopez not having success at the major league level. Those are failure. The White Sox are not getting Seth Beer. Anything other than that is not a failure. The Sox need to develop their young talent and hope that some guys that are on the fringe turn into good ballplayers. That is what will make this season a success, and adding as much talent as possible from trades for Q, Frazier, Robertson, Jones, Jennings, Melky, Gonzales and Holland. We need those guys to be as good as possible for that to happen. These things will all require the Sox to not be terrible at baseball. That is far more important than picking 3rd instead of 8th or 9th. Paging Y2JIMMY.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Mar 31, 2017 -> 12:36 PM) If this team wins between 73-78 games the season was a tremendous failure. The whole reason to do this is to be really terrible. I don't think this is the case. The whole reason was to acquire prospect to really build for the future. If the players they currently have play better than expected, it helps the team in two ways and only hurts in one. It helps by 1) having players that other teams want in trades and 2) having a better base to help the prospects. It hurts only in draft position and moneys slots. Although I did say 72 which is below your 73 win failure level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Mar 31, 2017 -> 02:38 PM) Paging Y2JIMMY.... LOL I was busy. Picking 7th or 8th would be a failure. More White Sox half measures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 QUOTE (ptatc @ Mar 31, 2017 -> 03:23 PM) I don't think this is the case. The whole reason was to acquire prospect to really build for the future. If the players they currently have play better than expected, it helps the team in two ways and only hurts in one. It helps by 1) having players that other teams want in trades and 2) having a better base to help the prospects. It hurts only in draft position and moneys slots. Although I did say 72 which is below your 73 win failure level. I don't need Seth Beer. They need to pick top 5 though. They need the bigger bonus pool and it would be ideal to pick top 5 in a loaded draft class. Winning 65 games is better than winning 75 games. Winning 75 games is a poor way to pull off what they're trying to do. If you are sitting home for the playoffs, you might as well reap the actual rewards of rebuilding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Mar 31, 2017 -> 04:38 PM) LOL I was busy. Picking 7th or 8th would be a failure. More White Sox half measures. Hah, fantastic analysis! Picking in the top three would mean that a lot of things went wrong for the White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Mar 31, 2017 -> 05:01 PM) Hah, fantastic analysis! Picking in the top three would mean that a lot of things went wrong for the White Sox. I obviously don't want the prospects to come up and fail but I think you are overstating how much of an impact they will have. The Sox rotation is Q, Shields, Holland, Gonzalez, and Dylan f***ing Covey. They could have the worst team OBP in the mob fairly easily. They have some RH power, an above average bullpen, and a stud starting pitcher. How are they going to score runs? This team is terrible and will get worse as they start subtracting players. I'm not really worried about it because I'm fairly confident this is a bottom 5 team in baseball. Edited March 31, 2017 by Y2JImmy0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Mar 31, 2017 -> 06:15 PM) I obviously don't want the prospects to come up and fail but I think you are overstating how much of an impact they will have. The Sox rotation is Q, Shields, Holland, Gonzalez, and Dylan f***ing Covey. They could have the worst team OBP in the mob fairly easily. They have some RH power, an above average bullpen, and a stud starting pitcher. How are they going to score runs? This team is terrible and will get worse as they start subtracting players. I'm not really worried about it because I'm fairly confident this is a bottom 5 team in baseball. Vegas odds say only Padres are a worse team than our Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Mar 31, 2017 -> 04:38 PM) LOL I was busy. Picking 7th or 8th would be a failure. More White Sox half measures. QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Mar 31, 2017 -> 05:01 PM) Hah, fantastic analysis! Picking in the top three would mean that a lot of things went wrong for the White Sox. I don't think either of these takes are correct. If the Sox are picking 7th or 8th, either they got incredibly lucky in close games or some young guys played very well, which is a good sign. If they pick in the top 3, it means that the White Sox don't have a lot of talent on the roster and they lost a lot of games, which is also true! Neither situation is a failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Whatever gets us the Beer pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 1, 2017 Author Share Posted April 1, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Mar 31, 2017 -> 04:40 PM) I don't need Seth Beer. They need to pick top 5 though. They need the bigger bonus pool and it would be ideal to pick top 5 in a loaded draft class. Winning 65 games is better than winning 75 games. Winning 75 games is a poor way to pull off what they're trying to do. If you are sitting home for the playoffs, you might as well reap the actual rewards of rebuilding. If this team wins 75 games, it means a lot of guys will have trade value, which did not have trade value before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 31, 2017 -> 07:19 PM) If this team wins 75 games, it means a lot of guys will have trade value, which did not have trade value before. I would hope if that happened, some of the talent would move at the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Mar 31, 2017 -> 04:40 PM) I don't need Seth Beer. They need to pick top 5 though. They need the bigger bonus pool and it would be ideal to pick top 5 in a loaded draft class. Winning 65 games is better than winning 75 games. Winning 75 games is a poor way to pull off what they're trying to do. If you are sitting home for the playoffs, you might as well reap the actual rewards of rebuilding. "Might as well" is a whole lot different than saying it's a total failure. It would benefit them if they lose more but it's not a total failure if they don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 QUOTE (ptatc @ Mar 31, 2017 -> 11:46 PM) "Might as well" is a whole lot different than saying it's a total failure. It would benefit them if they lose more but it's not a total failure if they don't. I mean, the picks are a critical part of a rebuild. Being perennially bad only gets you so far. You have to be BAD and hit on high draft picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soha Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Mar 31, 2017 -> 06:35 PM) Whatever gets us the Beer pick If Seth Beer keeps hitting .253, we might be needing a new guy to target. But yeah, we want a top 2-3 pick regardless of who is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxforlife05 Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Hopefully we have automatic losses from the pitching staff every 3/5 games. Don't see Q getting much support. Should be one of the worst teams in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 From the middle of May all the way through the end of the season, for the last 130 games equaling 80% of the season, the Sox played at a worse winning percentage than the 2013 team that lost 99 games. This was WITH Chris Sale and Adam Eaton on the team. Now for 2017 without those two star players in tow, and looking up and down this roster, I don't know how in the world a 100+ loss season can be avoided, particularly as the team sells off its remaining few good players as the season goes on. This is a huge hole Reinsdorf, Williams, and Hahn have dug for this organization, and it's going to get a little uglier at first before it gets better, starting with this upcoming season. The absolute only hope we Sox fans have right now is that the primary architect of the last failed effort at developing a sustainable winning ball club, Rick Hahn, will somehow have different results with this rebuild business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Apr 1, 2017 -> 08:20 AM) From the middle of May all the way through the end of the season, for the last 130 games equaling 80% of the season, the Sox played at a worse winning percentage than the 2013 team that lost 99 games. This was WITH Chris Sale and Adam Eaton on the team. Now for 2017 without those two star players in tow, and looking up and down this roster, I don't know how in the world a 100+ loss season can be avoided, particularly as the team sells off its remaining few good players as the season goes on. This is a huge hole Reinsdorf, Williams, and Hahn have dug for this organization, and it's going to get a little uglier at first before it gets better, starting with this upcoming season. The absolute only hope we Sox fans have right now is that the primary architect of the last failed effort at developing a sustainable winning ball club, Rick Hahn, will somehow have different results with this rebuild business. I don't think people realize how hard it is to lose 100 games. Last year there was only one team. This team is going to be bad, I predicted 90 loses. But with Anderson, Rodon and Abreu probably not being traded and a couple of acquired platyers being promoted 100 loses will be tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 QUOTE (ptatc @ Apr 1, 2017 -> 08:28 AM) I don't think people realize how hard it is to lose 100 games. Last year there was only one team. This team is going to be bad, I predicted 90 loses. But with Anderson, Rodon and Abreu probably not being traded and a couple of acquired platyers being promoted 100 loses will be tough. I don't disagree with you on the rareness of teams losing 100 games, but it does happen. My point is it will happen this year to this team if they don't improve on the brand of baseball they featured the last half of May last year, all of June, all of July, all of August, and all of September. And that improvement must come without the services of Sale and Eaton. It's going to be a challenge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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