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NCAA basketball thread 2017-18

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QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 01:17 PM)
I don't remember saying anything like that for Quentin Snyder or Demetrius Jackson. The only high profile recruit i've blamed on money was Cliff Alexander and, well, there's proof of his mom accepting $200k so...

Let's see...you are going to be a one and done, where do you go?

 

Kentucky? Duke? North Carolina? Kansas? Illinois?

 

They really never had much a shot at Cliff in reality. If your plan is one season, you need as much exposure as possible, going 9-9 in the Big Ten and playing in the NIT doesn't do it. Back in the Flying Illini days, you probably land this type of guy. Not now.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 01:26 PM)
Let's see...you are going to be a one and done, where do you go?

 

Kentucky? Duke? North Carolina? Kansas? Illinois?

 

They really never had much a shot at Cliff in reality. If your plan is one season, you need as much exposure as possible, going 9-9 in the Big Ten and playing in the NIT doesn't do it. Back in the Flying Illini days, you probably land this type of guy. Not now.

 

That really isn't true at all. Markelle Fultz is going to be a top 3 pick after playing on a horrendous team. Washington was terrible the year before and they had two kids who were one and dones and played in the tourney. Ben Simmons didn't make the NCAA tournament. A kid playing in the Big 10 that is good enough to be a one and done will be regardless of the school he is at. The real reason not to play at Illinois the last several years is that Weber is a mediocre coach and a terrible recruiter and Groce sucks.

 

And Tilmon isn't a 1 and done level talent (although he may think he is).

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QUOTE (bmags @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 01:13 PM)
No, money and gifts happen in recruiting. But Illini fans have a particular corner covered where only they lose out recruits to higher offers exclusively. It can't be fickle teenage minds, coach guidance, coaching changes, parental advice, no...it's always they got a bag of money. Because Illinois of course has no rich boosters. If he goes to Missouri, it's because our unbelievable booster class offered him more.

 

I'm sure it is much more likely he decided out of the blue he wanted to play for a coach that he showed zero interest in at his prior job. And if you think this recruitment is clean now or has ever been clean you are kidding yourself.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 01:26 PM)
Let's see...you are going to be a one and done, where do you go?

 

Kentucky? Duke? North Carolina? Kansas? Illinois?

 

They really never had much a shot at Cliff in reality. If your plan is one season, you need as much exposure as possible, going 9-9 in the Big Ten and playing in the NIT doesn't do it. Back in the Flying Illini days, you probably land this type of guy. Not now.

 

They were in his final two and most insiders thought he was going to choose Illinois up until the last few days. Again, given the family received $200k, there's really no argument that money didn't play a role in the final decision.

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Bmags, I have no doubt Illinois was dirty in this recruitment. But the fact that they pretty much went dirty once, then again at Signing Day to keep SLU/KU away, and now have to again? Just ridiculous, there's fair reason for Illini fans to be upset/exhausted by this recruitment.

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QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 01:32 PM)
I'm sure it is much more likely he decided out of the blue he wanted to play for a coach that he showed zero interest in at his prior job. And if you think this recruitment is clean now or has ever been clean you are kidding yourself.

 

Listen, not trying to dance on your tears. It was really disappointing when mizzou thought we legit may have shots at Tatum or blakeney or whomever.

 

But, that paragraph is nonsense. Tilmon's principal is Martin's sister. ANd there is a huge difference in playing for Martin at Cal, 1000 miles from home, and playing for him at Missouri, where his folks could watch him play and ESL is all rooting for him. But the much bigger factor is that with Porter at Missouri every NBA scout will be watching every game - a draw usually reserved for kansas, duke, kentucky, unc.

 

But there's also no guarantee Missouri gets him. This may very be from him seeing Smith suddenly getting recruited by blue bloods and him getting cold feet that he decided too early.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 01:06 PM)
The Illini fan obsession with assuming every player that doesn't choose Illinois is getting paid more is really unparalleled.

Anyone who loses out on a recruit blames someone else paying them.

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QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 01:30 PM)
That really isn't true at all. Markelle Fultz is going to be a top 3 pick after playing on a horrendous team. Washington was terrible the year before and they had two kids who were one and dones and played in the tourney. Ben Simmons didn't make the NCAA tournament. A kid playing in the Big 10 that is good enough to be a one and done will be regardless of the school he is at. The real reason not to play at Illinois the last several years is that Weber is a mediocre coach and a terrible recruiter and Groce sucks.

 

And Tilmon isn't a 1 and done level talent (although he may think he is).

There are certainly other examples, but hedging your bets and going to a blue blood isnt a terrible idea.

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QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 01:44 PM)
Bmags, I have no doubt Illinois was dirty in this recruitment. But the fact that they pretty much went dirty once, then again at Signing Day to keep SLU/KU away, and now have to again? Just ridiculous, there's fair reason for Illini fans to be upset/exhausted by this recruitment.

 

Not ribbing Illini fans for being upset. Recruiting is a dumb game. Not basketball, but when Mizzou lost out on Jafar Armstrong last year I was pissed. Recruited that kid for 2 years and then he left after a spot opened up on ND.

 

But, my observation wasn't about being upset. I'm not exactly the first person to point this out about Illini fans.

 

7 footers are obviously a great currency in college basketball, but Underwood isn't going to succeed based off of the play he gets out of Tilmon. Especially for next year, very likely he could get similar production from a grad transfer. Rivals has basically said Tilmon was likely to be downgraded to a 4 star anyway.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 01:55 PM)
Not ribbing Illini fans for being upset. Recruiting is a dumb game. Not basketball, but when Mizzou lost out on Jafar Armstrong last year I was pissed. Recruited that kid for 2 years and then he left after a spot opened up on ND.

 

But, my observation wasn't about being upset. I'm not exactly the first person to point this out about Illini fans.

 

7 footers are obviously a great currency in college basketball, but Underwood isn't going to succeed based off of the play he gets out of Tilmon. Especially for next year, very likely he could get similar production from a grad transfer. Rivals has basically said Tilmon was likely to be downgraded to a 4 star anyway.

Basketball is probably the worst recruiting game right now, mostly because of the AAU system.

 

But lets be honest, if your school lands top recruits and you win a natty, do you really care if there was smoke around that players recruitment? Because you are lying if you say you do. UNC just got caught for academic fraud and nobody said a f***ing word during the tournament. And they will still land top kids who do zero schoolwork.

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 01:52 PM)
There are certainly other examples, but hedging your bets and going to a blue blood isnt a terrible idea.

 

I could also give tons of examples of kids who were super highly rated who would have been better off not playing at a blue blood for exposure. Look at Chase Jeter and Marques Bolden who were both 5* kids now transferring out of Duke this year. Or look at Cliff Alexander actually who played limited minutes at Kansas his one year there and then leapt to the NBA anyways and wasn't drafted. He very well could have been much better off getting to play 25-30 minutes a game at Illinois or a similar program (well probably not Illinois with Groce) then he was at Kansas in terms of exposure.

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QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 01:58 PM)
I could also give tons of examples of kids who were super highly rated who would have been better off not playing at a blue blood for exposure. Look at Chase Jeter and Marques Bolden who were both 5* kids now transferring out of Duke this year. Or look at Cliff Alexander actually who played limited minutes at Kansas his one year there and then leapt to the NBA anyways and wasn't drafted. He very well could have been much better off getting to play 25-30 minutes a game at Illinois or a similar program (well probably not Illinois with Groce) then he was at Kansas in terms of exposure.

Sure, but the top 10 schools that produce NBA players are all blue bloods. And if you see that, the TV schedule and the top notch coaches as a recruit its not hard to swing that way. Iron sharpens iron and playing every day for a marquee program appears to increase your odds of making the NBA. At least thats the sell job.

 

ust like the past four seasons, Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, and North Carolina top the list of 108 Division I colleges that have one or more former players on 2016-17 NBA opening-day rosters, which was Tuesday, October 25, 2016. Kentucky had 24 former players on 2016-17 NBA opening-day rosters, Duke had 19, Kansas had 15, and North Carolina 14. These four teams have led all other teams for the past five seasons with minor changes in the order. The 24 former players Kentucky had in the NBA on 2016-17 opening-day rosters is the best of any college since we began compiling this list on a yearly basis some 30 years ago. UCLA (13), Arizona (12), Syracuse (11) and Florida (10) round out those schools with double-digit numbers of former players on NBA opening-round rosters this season. The top four schools supply nearly 5 teams' worth of NBA players, using a 15-player active NBA roster.
Edited by RockRaines

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QUOTE (bmags @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 01:48 PM)
Listen, not trying to dance on your tears. It was really disappointing when mizzou thought we legit may have shots at Tatum or blakeney or whomever.

 

But, that paragraph is nonsense. Tilmon's principal is Martin's sister. ANd there is a huge difference in playing for Martin at Cal, 1000 miles from home, and playing for him at Missouri, where his folks could watch him play and ESL is all rooting for him. But the much bigger factor is that with Porter at Missouri every NBA scout will be watching every game - a draw usually reserved for kansas, duke, kentucky, unc.

 

But there's also no guarantee Missouri gets him. This may very be from him seeing Smith suddenly getting recruited by blue bloods and him getting cold feet that he decided too early.

 

If it is Missouri and it happens quickly he is picking to play at a school where he had very little relationship with the head coach. I pretty much guarantee he isn't asking for his release because he simply wants to play for Cuonzo Martin. And this recruitment has been dirty from the beginning including when Illinois won it. Whatever school wins this recruitment is doing it by being in the mud, this shouldn't bother you, no good programs in college basketball are clean (except for maybe Wisconsin because Bo Ryan was just that f***ing good of a coach). But that is what is happening.

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 01:56 PM)
Basketball is probably the worst recruiting game right now, mostly because of the AAU system.

 

But lets be honest, if your school lands top recruits and you win a natty, do you really care if there was smoke around that players recruitment? Because you are lying if you say you do. UNC just got caught for academic fraud and nobody said a f***ing word during the tournament. And they will still land top kids who do zero schoolwork.

 

It absolutely pays to cheat if you're at a certain level in college sports. It'll be years down the line before you get caught (like, 18!) and by then you'll have brought your program back to relevance and/or won. At that point your gained or regained image is secure, so a few years of difficult recruiting or a one year post-season ban isn't a real problem to deal with.

 

It's when you're a mediocre to bad program, like Minnesota or SMU....that's when it hurts to cheat. The NCAA will hammer you and use you as the example that they go hard after cheaters.

 

Indiana is the only good program in recent memory that got hit with serious penalties. And that's only because the coach continued to lie and continued to break the rules.

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 02:01 PM)
Sure, but the top 10 schools that produce NBA players are all blue bloods. And if you see that, the TV schedule and the top notch coaches as a recruit its not hard to swing that way. Iron sharpens iron and playing every day for a marquee program appears to increase your odds of making the NBA. At least thats the sell job.

 

Of course that is how it is sold, I'm not arguing otherwise. Those programs produce the most NBA talent because they get the most NBA level talent. You or I could have coached guys like Towns, Rose, Anthony Davis, etc. to be top 5 NBA draft picks. Hell, Johnny Jones probably isn't a better coach than people on this board and Ben Simmons still went #1 playing for him.

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QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 02:01 PM)
If it is Missouri and it happens quickly he is picking to play at a school where he had very little relationship with the head coach. I pretty much guarantee he isn't asking for his release because he simply wants to play for Cuonzo Martin. And this recruitment has been dirty from the beginning including when Illinois won it. Whatever school wins this recruitment is doing it by being in the mud, this shouldn't bother you, no good programs in college basketball are clean (except for maybe Wisconsin because Bo Ryan was just that f***ing good of a coach). But that is what is happening.

 

Not sure i'm buying this totally. Seems hard to believe since no one said anything about any alleged shadiness, but no one heard he was banging secretaries and having kids out of wedlock either. Funny how one of the most successful coaches in the country for the last 2 decades, a sure fire hall of famer, hasn't been heard of since he retired. Literally vanished. There has to be a lot of skeletons in that closet.

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 01:56 PM)
Basketball is probably the worst recruiting game right now, mostly because of the AAU system.

 

But lets be honest, if your school lands top recruits and you win a natty, do you really care if there was smoke around that players recruitment? Because you are lying if you say you do. UNC just got caught for academic fraud and nobody said a f***ing word during the tournament. And they will still land top kids who do zero schoolwork.

 

Yeah I don't really care about money changing hands.

 

Covering up crimes/sexual assault, no tolerance for that. I think MUPD does report all, I think the athletic dept. has been complicit a few times in sweeping under the rug.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 02:13 PM)
Yeah I don't really care about money changing hands.

 

Covering up crimes/sexual assault, no tolerance for that. I think MUPD does report all, I think the athletic dept. has been complicit a few times in sweeping under the rug.

+1 there. I like increasing graduation and decreasing f***ing criminals on teams. But if someone gets a job from someone? Not sure I truly care anymore.

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Evan Daniels‏Verified account

@EvanDaniels

 

Former USF head coach & Kentucky assistant Orlando Antigua will join Brad Underwood's staff at Illinois as an assistant coach, per a source.

 

Happy to get Calipari's ex-#1 recruiter. Not so happy his HC record sucks and he was fired amid an academic scandal.

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QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 08:11 PM)
Happy to get Calipari's ex-#1 recruiter. Not so happy his HC record sucks and he was fired amid an academic scandal.

 

He destroyed what was left of USF's program. They had to give the great Brian Gregory a huge deal to clean up the program. Sounds like he had no respect for the university or the players.

Edited by fathom

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QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 03:11 PM)
Happy to get Calipari's ex-#1 recruiter. Not so happy his HC record sucks and he was fired amid an academic scandal.

Yeah, thankfully he won't be the head coach at Illinois.

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I've been on the losing end of "Illinois fans aren't any worse than other fans" battle enough to know I should stay out of that argument haha.

 

But, I will say that the Braggin' Rights game should be pretty fun this year.

 

 

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QUOTE (bmags @ Apr 5, 2017 -> 12:14 PM)
But my point is this is your default operating assumption. There has not been a recruit who Illinois has lost out on that has not had the "wellp, he got a better offer".

 

Come on now bmags. This is the default setting for some portion of EVERY fanbase. To state that it's unique to Illinois is silly.

 

As to Tilmon, I'll echo what plenty of people on here already have said. THIS recruitment was dirty when Illinois got his verbal. It was dirty when they fought off Ford and SLU on Signing Day. And it's dirty now when he wants out. It's ridiculous that Illinois has had to go through this with Tilmon three times.

 

 

 

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