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2017-18 official NBA discussion thread

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 07:06 AM)
Can someone explain to me Lavine's contract situation? Does he only have one year left and then becomes a restricted free agent? Or does he have two years left before becoming restricted? Given his ACL issue, I really hope it's the ladder and not the former.

 

Either way, this trade reflects the problem with trading your only chip and not getting anyone with star potential back in return. Lavine is going to get paid in a year or two and start eating up cap space that theoretically could have been used to sign a star in free agency (long-shot I know). I guess you could always move him for more assets down the road, but you're not going to get a ton when he's making a f***ton of money unless he takes another step forward. I just wish we got at least one guy in return for Butler that has star upside.

 

Lavine will be a restricted free agent after this upcoming season.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 07:45 AM)
https://sports.yahoo.com/2017-nba-draft-win...-005938774.html

 

Pretty much the exact opposition reaction as to the Eaton trade, yikes...

A lot of the smarter minds seem to understand the trade as part of a big picture (Joe Dumars gets the trade, for example). People who look JUST at the trade have bad grades, which is completely understandable, but the time was right for the Bulls to move on and they could not do that without moving Jimmy.

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QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 07:49 AM)
A lot of the smarter minds seem to understand the trade as part of a big picture (Joe Dumars gets the trade, for example). People who look JUST at the trade have bad grades, which is completely understandable, but the time was right for the Bulls to move on and they could not do that without moving Jimmy.

Very few people are complaining about the Bulls picking their lane. Theyre complaining about the trade. Tanking and making an okay to good trade here are not mutually exclusive. Not sure why that is hard to understand for some.

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QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 10:51 PM)
KC Johnson had this blurb in his article (which I haven't seen anyone talk about). I'm looking at Zoom for my answer (if he hasn't had too many fancy beers).

 

 

 

What is the unique structure in Rondo's contract? I presume Rondo's option somehow counts (and a team can walk away from it)...so technically Bulls can leverage the cap exeption and Rondo to help facilitate moves when FA opens (and ideally accumulate some picks)?

 

Or am I being way too optimistic?

 

I'm not that familiar with the new CBA, so take that with a grain of salt.

 

I believe the trade exception is the difference between Jimmy's salary and what they took in. I don't believe it can be combined with other assets.

 

Only like 3 mil of Rondo's deal is guaranteed, so in theory they can trade him at 13/14 mil or whatever he's making and the other team can save 10 mil by cutting him.

 

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QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 06:49 AM)
A lot of the smarter minds seem to understand the trade as part of a big picture (Joe Dumars gets the trade, for example). People who look JUST at the trade have bad grades, which is completely understandable, but the time was right for the Bulls to move on and they could not do that without moving Jimmy.

 

Well, yeah....nobody, for example, thought Pods and Vizcaino was a fair return for CLee, but then you start taking into consideration payroll, defense/speed, player attitude, it's not always about the trade return itself. In that case, the corresponding reallocations of that huge salary off the books, as well as Maggs and Valentin.

 

Of course, it's much more difficult for the Bulls to pull off the equivalent of the 2004-05 Sox offseason because of the limitations on star player movement.

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QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 07:56 AM)
Very few people are complaining about the Bulls picking their lane. Theyre complaining about the trade. Tanking and making an okay to good trade here are not mutually exclusive. Not sure why that is hard to understand for some.

It's hard for some because we're not all willing to dumb it down like you are. The game is complicated and these trades aren't made in a vacuum. Your inability to accept reality, that the Bulls wanted to rebuild and this was the best offer they had, is indicative of your lack of understanding, not our lack of understanding.

Edited by Sox-35th

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 07:58 AM)
So they sold Bell to pay for Rondos buyout?

 

Actually to sign Jake Burger.

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Haven't been online in ages, but had to swing by to see the reaction. Never change, boys!

 

Understandable that you guys are disappointed by the return, but you'll fall in love with LaVine soon enough. Dude is going to be a hell of a player in this league.

Edited by Felix

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I am happy they decided to rebuild and I am totally disappointed in the return the Bulls got for JB but what is more devastating is the reality that all this did was buy Gar and Pax more time in this org. They now get to build a team from the ground up again which most of us have absolutely zero faith that they will be able to do. Like, its not even a possibility. They will have to hit on every single damn draft pick in the next few years including this one and have Dunn and Lavine both pan out to be all stars if they think they are going to contend in a few years. There is no top 1-2 FA's that will want to come here when the time comes to add and that is what you need to really get you over the top.

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QUOTE (shipps @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 08:37 AM)
I am happy they decided to rebuild and I am totally disappointed in the return the Bulls got for JB but what is more devastating is the reality that all this did was buy Gar and Pax more time in this org. They now get to build a team from the ground up again which most of us have absolutely zero faith that they will be able to do. Like, its not even a possibility. They will have to hit on every single damn draft pick in the next few years including this one and have Dunn and Lavine both pan out to be all stars if they think they are going to contend in a few years. There is no top 1-2 FA's that will want to come here when the time comes to add and that is what you need to really get you over the top.

 

Obviously part of this is my judgment, but they took every valuable asset they had in Taj and Butler and got exactly 0 future additional draft picks out of it, and very questionable whether the young assets they acquired can be served to that end. Lavine is fine, but I just will have to see it to believe it on a guy coming off an ACL injury.

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QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 07:49 AM)
A lot of the smarter minds seem to understand the trade as part of a big picture (Joe Dumars gets the trade, for example). People who look JUST at the trade have bad grades, which is completely understandable, but the time was right for the Bulls to move on and they could not do that without moving Jimmy.

 

Joe Dumars! Great news!!!

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QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 08:03 AM)
It's hard for some because we're not all willing to dumb it down like you are. The game is complicated and these trades aren't made in a vacuum. Your inability to accept reality, that the Bulls wanted to rebuild and this was the best offer they had, is indicative of your lack of understanding, not our lack of understanding.

 

Yep, and this same front office decided not to trade Pau Gasol to try to sneak into the 8th spot of the playoffs and turned Taj Gibson into garbage and gave up a second round pick to do it. They should totally be given the benefit of the doubt.

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QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 09:03 AM)
It's hard for some because we're not all willing to dumb it down like you are. The game is complicated and these trades aren't made in a vacuum. Your inability to accept reality, that the Bulls wanted to rebuild and this was the best offer they had, is indicative of your lack of understanding, not our lack of understanding.

Calling other board members dumb again?

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QUOTE (Felix @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 09:18 AM)
Haven't been online in ages, but had to swing by to see the reaction. Never change, boys!

 

Understandable that you guys are disappointed by the return, but you'll fall in love with LaVine soon enough. Dude is going to be a hell of a player in this league.

 

I wanted LaVine out of college bad. But nope, had to take Doug freaking McDermott.

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By accepting this as a win just because they decided to pick a lane and do the rebuild would lead me down the same road they have dragged me down as a fan for years now. I am really tired of giving them the benefit of the doubt. Trying to rationalize every move that they make to being whats best for the team in the grand scheme of things. f*** that. I cant ignore the fact that they accepted a terrible return for JB, this trade mattered to this rebuild. I give GarPax no credit, they are pathetic.

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QUOTE (shipps @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 09:23 AM)
By accepting this as a win just because they decided to pick a lane and do the rebuild would lead me down the same road they have dragged me down as a fan for years now. I am really tired of giving them the benefit of the doubt. Trying to rationalize every move that they make to being whats best for the team in the grand scheme of things. f*** that. I cant ignore the fact that they accepted a terrible return for JB, this trade mattered to this rebuild. I give GarPax no credit, they are pathetic.

 

Also I don't buy the best deal crap at all. They decided what best deal was.

 

They could have traded Taj/Doug for draft picks, they did not, they got a bunch of young players that Gar had a hardon for

 

We know the bulls were hot and sweaty for Dunn. They valued getting a young-oldish prospect over future a bunch of flexible assets like draft picks while also becoming a worse team for high lotto picks. This is them thinking they can build on the run. They will fail, because they are bad at evaluating talent, and continue to have a strong preference for older college players.

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So I was trying to talk myself back from the ledge last night. Here's what I came up with (this is extremely weak):

 

I'm still pissed about the trade as I was in the camp that trading Butler for scraps made zero sense. I'm still pissed about the return they got - one solid NBA start, yet another PG project added to the pile, and a Mirotic/Bargnani clone. And although the 16th pick isn't going to be an all-star, it's still a pick. It's still POTENTIAL. And they squandered it.

 

Having said that, they picked a lane. If Lebron stays in Cleveland, none of this matters. The Bulls aren't going to assemble a roster that can compete in the next 2-3 seasons. If Lebron bolts in 2018, the east becomes more wide open, but you have better rosters out there (Boston, Philly, Washington).

 

So, yes, disappointed. Yes, another awful trade (so 3 in a row including the trade to get mcdermott, to get rid of mcdermott and gibson, and now this). And yes, more GarPax time.

 

But, I guess at the end of the day, maybe it doesn't really matter?

 

/ends lame attempt to accept this.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 09:27 AM)
Also I don't buy the best deal crap at all. They decided what best deal was.

 

They could have traded Taj/Doug for draft picks, they did not, they got a bunch of young players that Gar had a hardon for

 

We know the bulls were hot and sweaty for Dunn. They valued getting a young-oldish prospect over future a bunch of flexible assets like draft picks while also becoming a worse team for high lotto picks. This is them thinking they can build on the run. They will fail, because they are bad at evaluating talent, and continue to have a strong preference for older college players.

 

Dammit bmags you are making me even more mad now.

 

Where is my god damn pitchfork?

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QUOTE (shipps @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 09:33 AM)
Dammit bmags you are making me even more mad now.

 

Where is my god damn pitchfork?

 

Yes, yes, embrace it. How do you feel about charter planes?

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QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 09:31 AM)
I don't believe they have picked a lane.

 

They're going to be bad next year and for the near future. I have to believe they know that and planned on that when they gave up Butler for young players.

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QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 09:47 AM)
They're going to be bad next year and for the near future. I have to believe they know that and planned on that when they gave up Butler for young players.

 

Yes, I worry how bad they will be though. I do think they think they have a core with this, and I really don't want to be in the 6-7-8 range.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 23, 2017 -> 09:49 AM)
Yes, I worry how bad they will be though. I do think they think they have a core with this, and I really don't want to be in the 6-7-8 range.

 

For instance, they should see if RoLo gets them anything. He has a good contract and showed to be a very valuable rebounder. We should try to get one of the celtics own picks.

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