OklahomaBrave Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 QUOTE (Enscheff @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 11:08 PM) Maitan will be Acuna in 2 years. That's what chop country thinks of him. Yes that's a fair, more compact take than what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 QUOTE (OklahomaBrave @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 11:10 PM) Other than the generational talent etc. etc. comments I think the main hold up on trading him is because he isn't able to be valued properly. A guy with a lot of hype, warranted or not, can't be the BIG centerpiece. We'd have to trade him as a 2nd/3rd piece when he could be a year and a half away from being the majority of a deal. So while I think they do love him, it's equally about recognizing its irresponsible to trade an asset before it reaches maturation. From the Sox perspective, no matter how much talent Maitan has, it would be equally irresponsible to accept such an unknown quantity as a headliner. I'm sure they'd love him as a second piece, but Braves wouldn't consider that. This is a great post and I 100% agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank_Thomas Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (OklahomaBrave @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 11:10 PM) Other than the generational talent etc. etc. comments I think the main hold up on trading him is because he isn't able to be valued properly. A guy with a lot of hype, warranted or not, can't be the BIG centerpiece. We'd have to trade him as a 2nd/3rd piece when he could be a year and a half away from being the majority of a deal. So while I think they do love him, it's equally about recognizing its irresponsible to trade an asset before it reaches maturation. From the Sox perspective, no matter how much talent Maitan has, it would be equally irresponsible to accept such an unknown quantity as a headliner. I'm sure they'd love him as a second piece, but Braves wouldn't consider that. Is an Albies, Maitian, and a pitcher or Acuna, Matian, and a pitcher out of the question for Q? Edited July 13, 2017 by Frank_Thomas35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 10:02 PM) Yeah, I'm not a huge Cease fan, but I'll take him as the 2nd piece if Jimenez is the headliner. If we get Jimenez, we'll take ANYONE as a 2nd piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 04:13 AM) Is an Albies, Maitian, and a pitcher or Acuna, Matian, and a pitcher out of the question for Q? Yes, as someone said earlier, not sure if the Braves trade Acuna for Q straight up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 09:38 PM) According to 90% of Twitter Cubs fans, we are being blessed with Schwarber and John Lackey for Quintana! That's about as nauseating a scenario as I've read. I pray Williams doesn't like Schwarber (or at last isn't in love with his skills) I'd rather 5 prospects in the 100-200 range. Edited July 13, 2017 by GreenSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enscheff Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) As far as how readily folks seem to be to ship Albies off for Q, that is due mainly to prospect fatigue. Albies has been around for a while, and doesn't have much power. Chicks and casual fans dig the longball... Albies breaks his elbow to end last year, and comes back to a slow start this season as a 20 year old in AAA. Then the Braves acquire this shiny new toy in Demeritte. He hits a few HRs, and suddenly folks think he makes Albies expendable. Then the Braves promote a utility prospect named Camargo who proceeds to have a 100 good PAs fueled by an unsustainable BABIP, and now Albies is even more expendable. It's nothing but silliness. In 3 years, when Albies is Altuve with half the HR production, Braves fans will be glad they didn't trade their 4+ WAR guy at 2B in favor of keeping fringe prospects that profile as utility players. Edited July 13, 2017 by Enscheff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 QUOTE (Enscheff @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 04:18 AM) As far as how readily folks seem to be to ship Albies off for Q, that is due mainly to prospect fatigue. Albies has been around for a while, and doesn't have much power. Chicks and casual fans dig the longball... Albies breaks his elbow to end last year, and comes back to a slow start this season as a 20 year old in AAA. Then the Braves acquire this shiny new toy in Demeritte. He hits a few HRs, and suddenly folks think he makes Albies expendable. Then the Braves promote a utility prospect named Camargo who proceeds to have a 100 good PAs fueled by an unsustainable BABIP, and now Albies is even more expendable. In 3 years, when Albies is Altuve with half the HR production, Braves fans will be glad they didn't trade their 4+ WAR guy at 2B in favor of keeping fringe prospects that profile as utility players. You aren't concerned about his ability to hit RHP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 11:17 PM) Yes, as someone said earlier, not sure if the Braves trade Acuna for Q straight up That poster is one of the couple here that will probably be disappointed with a Q return with the extremely high return he thinks Q will net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OklahomaBrave Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 QUOTE (Enscheff @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 11:18 PM) As far as how readily folks seem to be to ship Albies off for Q, that is due mainly to prospect fatigue. Albies has been around for a while, and doesn't have much power. Chicks and casual fans dig the longball... Albies breaks his elbow to end last year, and comes back to a slow start this season as a 20 year old in AAA. Then the Braves acquire this shiny new toy in Demeritte. He hits a few HRs, and suddenly folks think he makes Albies expendable. Then the Braves promote a utility prospect named Camargo who proceeds to have a 100 good PAs fueled by an unsustainable BABIP, and now Albies is even more expendable. In 3 years, when Albies is Altuve with half the HR production, Braves fans will be glad they didn't trade their 4+ WAR guy at 2B in favor of keeping fringe prospects that profile as utility players. This is accurate. For clarity, I don't want to trade Albies. I do believe he is fair value as a headliner, and the aforementioned have nothing on him. I have heard some guys I know say he's more likely than Acuna/Maitan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OklahomaBrave Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 11:19 PM) You aren't concerned about his ability to hit RHP? I am. But he has shown great improvement in this area the last month or so working with Chipper Jones on reworking his swing. Has hit RHP significantly better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank_Thomas Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 11:17 PM) If we get Jimenez, we'll take ANYONE as a 2nd piece. I really like the write ups I've read but is he actually that great of a prospect? Could you imagine the reaction here if it was just him and a few anyone's people would freak. Cease is interesting as a 2nd piece MLB pipeline says he is anywhere from 94-98 and a true "hammer" curveball that has been compared to Dwight Gooden. Struggles with consistency and needs work on his change which is something we can fix or have in the past. The TJ thing worries me a little though. But if EJ is as good as people say I think it's a heck of a 1-2 for Q. I just think this is much a do about nothing but I still don't know the whole story behind the deleted tweet or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 11:13 PM) Is an Albies, Maitian, and a pitcher or Acuna, Matian, and a pitcher out of the question for Q? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Yes Jimenez is considered a possible .300/30 guy in the majors. He has some exit velocities that rival Stanton and Judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enscheff Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 09:19 PM) You aren't concerned about his ability to hit RHP? Almost all players have platoon splits. If he plays plus defense at 2B and posts an .800+ OPS, I don't care how the platoon advantages shake out. Further, the kid is 20 in AAA. He literally has never had a professional PA against a pitcher younger than him. If the biggest flaw a 20 year old in AAA has is the need to improve on a platoon split...I'll take it...he has time to work on things (assuming the Braves don't foolishly rush him to MLB). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 QUOTE (Enscheff @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 05:26 AM) Almost all players have platoon splits. If he plays plus defense at 2B and posts an .800+ OPS, I don't care how the platoon advantages shake out. Further, the kid is 20 in AAA. He literally has never had a professional PA against a pitcher younger than him. If the biggest flaw a 20 year old in AAA has is the need to improve on a platoon split...I'll take it...he has time to work on things (assuming the Braves don't foolishly rush him to MLB). Well his stock seems to be plummeting because of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enscheff Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 09:28 PM) Well his stock seems to be plummeting because of this His stock has plummeted because of this: April: .255/.279/.378 (.656 OPS) May: .275/.336/.385 (.721 OPS) While shaking the rust off from breaking his elbow. He has since done this: June: .312/.366/.559 (.925 OPS) July: .385/.405/.564 (.969 OPS) When FG releases Longenhagen's updated Top 100 after the trade deadline, I would bet any amount of money Albies is still ranked in the Top 15 as a 60 FV guy. So no, I am not worried about Albies the least bit. The Braves would be foolish to trade him. Edited July 13, 2017 by Enscheff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 I'm fine shipping Q across town for Jimenez, Cease, Albertos & Ademan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Next up on the random internet false rumor tour, that B-Mad guy is implying that we're getting Bregman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 QUOTE (beautox @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 11:34 PM) I'm fine shipping Q across town for Jimenez, Cease, Albertos & Ademan I can definitely see the latter 2 if the rumors are true about lower lewel spects. Law likes Albertos alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 04:40 AM) I can definitely see the latter 2 if the rumors are true about lower lewel spects. Law likes Albertos alot. So does Longenhagen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 If we get a guy like Jimenez, Brinson, or Acuna, we are likely not going to have heard of anyone else in the deal. I'm not convinced any of those guys are even on the table. The sooner we all admit that Quintana isn't going to bring a Sale-like return, the better. There have been multiple sources reporting from different angles for months now all indicating that this is the case. I really think everyone on the board should be absolutely stoked if we get a top20 prospect in a deal and shouldn't expect to get a second piece any better than a back-end 100 guy at most. Couple lotteries after that. I'm not saying it should or shouldn't be this way, I'm just saying it very likely IS this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soha Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 QUOTE (beautox @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 11:34 PM) I'm fine shipping Q across town for Jimenez, Cease, Albertos & Ademan If the Sox can get Eloy, I'm not terribly concerned about the depth of the trade. They can fill out depth when moving other guys. Getting a guy with star potential like Jimenez woild be amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 11:44 PM) If we get a guy like Jimenez, Brinson, or Acuna, we are likely not going to have heard of anyone else in the deal. I'm not convinced any of those guys are even on the table. I doubt they are, but if they were, I'd fine with nothing else but lottery tickets. Braves are a team that I think the Sox could start further own the prospect list, but end up with a good deal. But I suspect any Cubs deal = Schwarber. That's their spare part - he's killing their defense - they hope an AL team will take him as DH. Which one may; but it makes no sense for the Sox. Sox could have probably had a Schwarber deal any time in the last 10 months, so tend to doubt it's him, unless they are completely capitulating. Edited July 13, 2017 by GreenSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 11:44 PM) If we get a guy like Jimenez, Brinson, or Acuna, we are likely not going to have heard of anyone else in the deal. I'm not convinced any of those guys are even on the table. The sooner we all admit that Quintana isn't going to bring a Sale-like return, the better. There have been multiple sources reporting from different angles for months now all indicating that this is the case. I really think everyone on the board should be absolutely stoked if we get a top20 prospect in a deal and shouldn't expect to get a second piece any better than a back-end 100 guy at most. Couple lotteries after that. I'm not saying it should or shouldn't be this way, I'm just saying it very likely IS this way. I thought this way myself, but given the enormous market for Quintana, I am convinced that a team will bite and give us a package with a top-20 guy and a top-80 second guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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