Q may get moved "sooner than you think"

[hi8is]

Does it feel like December 2016 all over again to anyone else?

[flavum]

Does it feel like December 2016 all over again to anyone else?

 

Yeah, just a little.

 

I'm glad people like the at-home GM game, but I just want July 31st to get here and see what's new for the rebuild.

[whitesoxwinner]

Yeah, just a little.

 

I'm glad people like the at-home GM game, but I just want July 31st to get here and see what's new for the rebuild.

 

For right now it's all we have, unfortunately. Anybody else think about how boring it's gonna be when we suck and there's no one left to trade?

[steveno89]

Yankees package is light

Would take Brewers

Rockies in a heartbeat

Braves would also take in a heartbeat

Astros is ok

 

Yankees package is far from light. BA has Frazier @ 49, Adams @ 52 and Florial @ 71 as recently as 5 days ago

 

 

[harfman77]

For right now it's all we have, unfortunately. Anybody else think about how boring it's gonna be when we suck and there's no one left to trade?

 

Theres always someone to trade. After this round of trades we will have Rodon, Abreu, Avi, Sanchez, Jones, and whoever takes over at closer to talk about in the winter.

[ChiSox59]

You initially said that some of those packages are exciting. I think they're all exciting and that's why the sentiment is that none of the other teams would accept them.

 

No, that is not what I said. I said not all of that are that exciting.

[Eminor3rd]

Not rabbit but to me, Acuna is best prospect in baseball

 

I'm with you -- Acuna is the best prosepct in that system and the Braves know it. I don't think they'd give Acuna straight up for Quintana.

[steveno89]

I'm with you -- Acuna is the best prosepct in that system and the Braves know it. I don't think they'd give Acuna straight up for Quintana.

 

I get it's the day after the allstar game and most beat guys/writers are traveling or off, but there has not been a single shred of information about this. Just seems odd.

[fathom]

Levine on the Score soon to talk about Sox

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

Levine on the Score soon to talk about Sox

He'll probably regurgitate what he's read here and on Twitter.

[Enscheff]

Braves fan here checking in to see perspectives from the other side of this madness.

 

Knowledgeable Braves fans over at ChopCountry.com seem to realize Q's surplus value is in the $70M+ range, plus whatever contender's premium the acquiring team is willing to pay. Based on the consensus mid-season rankings and this surplus valuation of top prospects:http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/mlb-pr...pdated-edition/

 

I would currently value the Braves top handful of guys as:

 

Acuna - $70M

Albies - $55M

Allard/Soroka/Newk/Wright - $35M

Maitan - $25M

Anderson - $20M

Gohara - $15M

Pache - $15M

 

Nobody with half a clue wants to see the Braves give up any of the top position prospects (excepting Pache), and I personally think the Braves value Wright above all the other pitchers. That leaves a package centered around Allard and/or Soroka. Each of them only represents about half of Q's surplus value, so there would have to be (several) significant pieces added.

 

The biggest issue most knowledgeable Braves fans have with a possible Q acquisition is the timing. We all saw how dumb it was for Coppy to hold onto Teheran through the rebuild while his most valuable years were wasted on a losing team, and we don't want to see the Braves pay a premium for Q now in a non-competitive season. Losing teams simply should not be making "win now" moves. If the Braves are going to cash in prospect chips for a SP, I would prefer to see them wait until next trade deadline (if they are competitive), and go for Archer or whichever other TOR is available.

 

If I were a Sox fan, I would NOT be happy with a Q return that consists of mainly pitching, but that's likely what you will see form the Braves. Personally, I think Hahn is using the Braves as leverage to get the Yanks or Astros to cough up an elite position prospect.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Enscheff

[GreenSox]

Frazier + Adams + Florial I would do

 

Brinson + Ortiz + Phillips I would do

 

Rodgers + McMahon + Almonte back I would do

 

Albies + Gohara + Pache I would do

 

Tucker + Whitley/Perez + solid third piece I would do

I'd be thrilled with any of these.

[steveno89]

Braves fan here checking in to see perspectives from the other side of this madness.

 

Knowledgeable Braves fans over at ChopCountry.com seem to realize Q's surplus value is in the $70M+ range, plus whatever contender's premium the acquiring team is willing to pay. Based on the consensus mid-season rankings and this surplus valuation of top prospects:http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/mlb-pr...pdated-edition/

 

I would currently value the Braves top handful of guys as:

 

Acuna - $70M

Albies - $55M

Allard/Soroka/Wright - $35M

Maitan - $25M

Anderson - $20M

Gohara - $15M

 

Nobody with half a clue wants to see the Braves give up any of the top position prospects, and I personally think the Braves value Wright above all the other pitchers. That leaves a package centered around Allard and/or Soroka. Each of them only represents about half of Q's surplus value, so there would have to be (several) significant pieces added.

 

The biggest issue most knowledgeable Braves fans have with a possible Q acquisition is the timing. We all saw how dumb it was for Coppy to hold onto Teheran through the rebuild while his most valuable years were wasted on a losing team, and we don't want to see the Braves pay a premium for Q now in a non-competitive season. Losing teams simply should not be making "win now" moves. If the Braves are going to cash in prospect chips for a SP, I would prefer to see them wait until next trade deadline (if they are competitive), and go for Archer or whichever other TOR is available.

 

If I were a Sox fan, I would NOT be happy with a Q return that consists of mainly pitching, but that's likely what you will see form the Braves. Personally, I think Hahn is using the Braves as leverage to get the Yanks or Astros to cough up an elite position prospect.

 

Sox are specifically looking for bats in the return for Quintana. I do not see a Braves deal getting done without one of Acuna/Albies/Maitan coming to the Sox as part of a package.

 

Something along the lines of Albies + Gohara + Pache + lotto ticket is a framework that could work

Edited July 12, 2017 by steveno89

[witesoxfan]

Braves fan here checking in to see perspectives from the other side of this madness.

 

Knowledgeable Braves fans over at ChopCountry.com seem to realize Q's surplus value is in the $70M+ range, plus whatever contender's premium the acquiring team is willing to pay. Based on the consensus mid-season rankings and this surplus valuation of top prospects:http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/mlb-pr...pdated-edition/

 

I would currently value the Braves top handful of guys as:

 

Acuna - $70M

Albies - $55M

Allard/Soroka/Newk/Wright - $35M

Maitan - $25M

Anderson - $20M

Gohara - $15M

Pache - $15M

 

Nobody with half a clue wants to see the Braves give up any of the top position prospects (excepting Pache), and I personally think the Braves value Wright above all the other pitchers. That leaves a package centered around Allard and/or Soroka. Each of them only represents about half of Q's surplus value, so there would have to be (several) significant pieces added.

 

The biggest issue most knowledgeable Braves fans have with a possible Q acquisition is the timing. We all saw how dumb it was for Coppy to hold onto Teheran through the rebuild while his most valuable years were wasted on a losing team, and we don't want to see the Braves pay a premium for Q now in a non-competitive season. Losing teams simply should not be making "win now" moves. If the Braves are going to cash in prospect chips for a SP, I would prefer to see them wait until next trade deadline (if they are competitive), and go for Archer or whichever other TOR is available.

 

If I were a Sox fan, I would NOT be happy with a Q return that consists of mainly pitching, but that's likely what you will see form the Braves. Personally, I think Hahn is using the Braves as leverage to get the Yanks or Astros to cough up an elite position prospect.

 

Welcome aboard. This is very good information. Please keep posting.

[daggins]

Braves fan here checking in to see perspectives from the other side of this madness.

 

Knowledgeable Braves fans over at ChopCountry.com seem to realize Q's surplus value is in the $70M+ range, plus whatever contender's premium the acquiring team is willing to pay. Based on the consensus mid-season rankings and this surplus valuation of top prospects:http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/mlb-pr...pdated-edition/

 

I would currently value the Braves top handful of guys as:

 

Acuna - $70M

Albies - $55M

Allard/Soroka/Newk/Wright - $35M

Maitan - $25M

Anderson - $20M

Gohara - $15M

Pache - $15M

 

Nobody with half a clue wants to see the Braves give up any of the top position prospects (excepting Pache), and I personally think the Braves value Wright above all the other pitchers. That leaves a package centered around Allard and/or Soroka. Each of them only represents about half of Q's surplus value, so there would have to be (several) significant pieces added.

 

The biggest issue most knowledgeable Braves fans have with a possible Q acquisition is the timing. We all saw how dumb it was for Coppy to hold onto Teheran through the rebuild while his most valuable years were wasted on a losing team, and we don't want to see the Braves pay a premium for Q now in a non-competitive season. Losing teams simply should not be making "win now" moves. If the Braves are going to cash in prospect chips for a SP, I would prefer to see them wait until next trade deadline (if they are competitive), and go for Archer or whichever other TOR is available.

 

If I were a Sox fan, I would NOT be happy with a Q return that consists of mainly pitching, but that's likely what you will see form the Braves. Personally, I think Hahn is using the Braves as leverage to get the Yanks or Astros to cough up an elite position prospect.

 

Very good analysis. I hope for Sox fans' sake you are correct.

[harfman77]

I think the Sox can pull two org top 10's plus two more prospects, but those prospects will depend on how good the first two are. I can see them taking a flier on an injured SP given they scouted each during the draft process last year.

Yankees - Rutherford, Acevedo, Jorge Guzman, Thairo Estrada

Rockies - Pint, McMahon, Pedro Gonzalez, Mike Nikorak*

Braves - Maitan, Fried, Pache, Braxton Davidson

Brewers - Hader, Ray, Medeiros, Nathan Kirby*

Dodgers - Buehler, Yusniel Diaz, Ronny Brito, Oneil Cruz

[Enscheff]

Sox are specifically looking for bats in the return for Quintana. I do not see a Braves deal getting done without one of Acuna/Albies/Maitan coming to the Sox as part of a package.

 

Something along the lines of Albies + Gohara + Pache + lotto ticket is a framework that could work

 

I agree, that is a reasonable package. And that's precisely why nobody wants to see this deal go down.

 

The Braves have HUGE organizational holes at 3B, 2B and corner OF. Albies is obviously slotted to fill 2B next year. Acuna replaces Markakis in 2019. Maitan is destined for 3B once he outgrows SS, and should be ready once whichever stopgap the Braves get at 3B this offseason leaves town. These 3 position prospects are instrumental for the Braves success in 2018 and beyond.

 

The Braves simply aren't good enough NOW to trade future value at positions of extreme need for a "win now" pitcher like Q.

 

Hopefully the Braves FO is smart enough to realize that, but their various "win now" moves during the course of the rebuild doesn't leave me hopeful.

[steveno89]

I think the Sox can pull two org top 10's plus two more prospects, but those prospects will depend on how good the first two are. I can see them taking a flier on an injured SP given they scouted each during the draft process last year.

Yankees - Rutherford, Acevedo, Jorge Guzman, Thairo Estrada

Rockies - Pint, McMahon, Pedro Gonzalez, Mike Nikorak*

Braves - Maitan, Fried, Pache, Braxton Davidson

Brewers - Hader, Ray, Medeiros, Nathan Kirby*

Dodgers - Buehler, Yusniel Diaz, Ronny Brito, Oneil Cruz

 

I see where you are coming from, but if the asking price was that low the whole league should be in on Quintana.

 

You don't lower your ask from Tucker + Martes + Musgrove

 

to

 

Tucker + Martes or Torres + Frazier

 

to

 

"A team's second or third best prospect, another top 10 organizational prospect, plus two lower level prospects"

[harfman77]

Braves fan here checking in to see perspectives from the other side of this madness.

 

Knowledgeable Braves fans over at ChopCountry.com seem to realize Q's surplus value is in the $70M+ range, plus whatever contender's premium the acquiring team is willing to pay. Based on the consensus mid-season rankings and this surplus valuation of top prospects:http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/mlb-pr...pdated-edition/

 

I would currently value the Braves top handful of guys as:

 

Acuna - $70M

Albies - $55M

Allard/Soroka/Newk/Wright - $35M

Maitan - $25M

Anderson - $20M

Gohara - $15M

Pache - $15M

 

Nobody with half a clue wants to see the Braves give up any of the top position prospects (excepting Pache), and I personally think the Braves value Wright above all the other pitchers. That leaves a package centered around Allard and/or Soroka. Each of them only represents about half of Q's surplus value, so there would have to be (several) significant pieces added.

 

The biggest issue most knowledgeable Braves fans have with a possible Q acquisition is the timing. We all saw how dumb it was for Coppy to hold onto Teheran through the rebuild while his most valuable years were wasted on a losing team, and we don't want to see the Braves pay a premium for Q now in a non-competitive season. Losing teams simply should not be making "win now" moves. If the Braves are going to cash in prospect chips for a SP, I would prefer to see them wait until next trade deadline (if they are competitive), and go for Archer or whichever other TOR is available.

 

If I were a Sox fan, I would NOT be happy with a Q return that consists of mainly pitching, but that's likely what you will see form the Braves. Personally, I think Hahn is using the Braves as leverage to get the Yanks or Astros to cough up an elite position prospect.

 

Thanks for the post. Its nice to get some perspective from another fanbase sometimes.

 

Not a shot directed at you, because we do the same thing, but I think it is funny that some Pirates fan puts together a guess of how prospects should be valued and we all reference it like it has some meaning. I think that his theory was blown out of the water given the prospect returns we have seen in the last year.

[steveno89]

I agree, that is a reasonable package. And that's precisely why nobody wants to see this deal go down.

 

The Braves have HUGE organizational holes at 3B, 2B and corner OF. Albies is obviously slotted to fill 2B next year. Acuna replaces Markakis in 2019. Maitan is destined for 3B once he outgrows SS, and should be ready once whichever stopgap the Braves get at 3B this offseason leaves town. These 3 position prospects are instrumental for the Braves success in 2018 and beyond.

 

The Braves simply aren't good enough NOW to trade future value at positions of extreme need for a "win now" pitcher like Q.

 

Hopefully the Braves FO is smart enough to realize that, but their various "win now" moves during the course of the rebuild doesn't leave me hopeful.

 

Braves still have enough depth in their system to overcome dealing Albies + Gohara + Pache + lotto ticket

 

Demeritte can cover 2B and Riley can cover 3B. You still have plenty of arms and Acuna/Maitan in the system.

[Enscheff]

Braves still have enough depth in their system to overcome dealing Albies + Gohara + Pache + lotto ticket

 

Demeritte can cover 2B and Riley can cover 3B. You still have plenty of arms and Acuna/Maitan in the system.

 

Demeritte and Riley are garbage. Only the most posi-Braves seriously consider them as players who will ever impact the MLB roster.

 

If I had to guess, I would imagine Coppy has offered 2 pitchers not named Wright (and probably not both Allard and Soroka), plus Pache, plus 1-2 other fungible assets. Hahn has that offer in his back pocket, and if the Yanks, Astros, Brewers, Rockies, or maybe even the Cubs, give in and include an elite position prospect, Hahn jumps.

 

Absent those teams flinching, getting one of Allard or Soroka could very well be the biggest piece available to Hahn. If I were a Sox fan, I would hope he doesn't gamble again on keeping Q in hopes of netting a bigger return at a later date. It almost bit him once already, and he is unlikely to luck out again.

[steveno89]

Demeritte and Riley are garbage. Only the most posi-Braves seriously consider them as players who will ever impact the MLB roster.

 

If I had to guess, I would imagine Coppy has offered 2 pitchers not named Wright (and probably not both Allard and Soroka), plus Pache, plus 1-2 other fungible assets. Hahn has that offer in his back pocket, and if the Yanks, Astros, Brewers, Rockies, or maybe even the Cubs, give in and include an elite position prospect, Hahn jumps.

 

Absent those teams flinching, getting one of Allard or Soroka could very well be the biggest piece available to Hahn. If I were a Sox fan, I would hope he doesn't gamble again on keeping Q in hopes of netting a bigger return at a later date. It almost bit him once already, and he is unlikely to luck out again.

 

I get where you are coming from, but I highly doubt the main piece(s) in a Q package would be an arm. Sox need bats and Q is their last blue chip piece to get high end positional prospects.

[Enscheff]

Thanks for the post. Its nice to get some perspective from another fanbase sometimes.

 

Not a shot directed at you, because we do the same thing, but I think it is funny that some Pirates fan puts together a guess of how prospects should be valued and we all reference it like it has some meaning. I think that his theory was blown out of the water given the prospect returns we have seen in the last year.

 

I've seen these values hold up pretty well actually. The disconnect seems to occur when folks fail to factor in the contender's premium teams pay for the current year...usually ~2x the value of the current rest of season projected production plus projected postseason production.

 

Knowing you are going to use a player in the postseason is extremely valuable, and teams are forced to pay for that value accordingly when they make these trades.

[harfman77]

Braves still have enough depth in their system to overcome dealing Albies + Gohara + Pache + lotto ticket

 

Demeritte can cover 2B and Riley can cover 3B. You still have plenty of arms and Acuna/Maitan in the system.

 

I think its Carmago at 2B and Freeman at 3B.

[pablo]

Demeritte and Riley are garbage. Only the most posi-Braves seriously consider them as players who will ever impact the MLB roster.

 

If I had to guess, I would imagine Coppy has offered 2 pitchers not named Wright (and probably not both Allard and Soroka), plus Pache, plus 1-2 other fungible assets. Hahn has that offer in his back pocket, and if the Yanks, Astros, Brewers, Rockies, or maybe even the Cubs, give in and include an elite position prospect, Hahn jumps.

 

Absent those teams flinching, getting one of Allard or Soroka could very well be the biggest piece available to Hahn. If I were a Sox fan, I would hope he doesn't gamble again on keeping Q in hopes of netting a bigger return at a later date. It almost bit him once already, and he is unlikely to luck out again.

 

What are Braves fans thoughts on Dustin Peterson? He was a guy that I had looked into during the offseason when rumors started up about the Braves and I liked what I saw - seems like a professional hitter. Any concerns on the wrist injury earlier in the year?

 

Soroka + Gohara + Pache + Peterson?