oneofthemikes Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 QUOTE (Tony @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:29 PM) Rich people problems. "My wallet's too small for my fifties and my diamond shoes are too tight!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenryan Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 I was at the FSL A game between the Tampa Yankees and Rays affiliate last night in Port Charlotte. I was behind the RF fence area and Polo was playing right. I was thinking to myself, "what are the odds I'll ever hear anything about these guys playing in this game ever again?" Well a few hours later... lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenryan Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 QUOTE (Username @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 07:43 AM) Yankees fans seems to like Tito Polo. Guy has put up some intriguing numbers and brings what sounds like good speed and defense. He tracked down a drive into the RF corner last night that was pretty impressive. He did look a little thick/soft though body wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Everyone has been spoiled from previous trades. It's hilarious that people are complaining about this deal. One Fangraphs article and suddenly people think Kahnle is the second coming. People were HOPING we'd get Soto from Washington for Robertson and we do one better and package the three and land Rutherford. Think about the package agreed to for Robertson in the winter and what Detroit got for Martinez. I think this is a good return for the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 06:06 AM) Yeah, I tend to agree with your take here. It's very easy to start bundling anything left of value that we have to go after "that one last guy," but you probably are going to lose out on additional value had we been patient and taken a calculated risk. I find it difficult to accept the argument that a guy that is currently dominating at the ML level is likely to regress to nothing, but simultaneously throw a ton of stock into a kid from A-ball becoming a good mlb player. I argued that it might be worth it to do this for a guy like Robles, and so if the White Sox truly believe in Rutherford, then it is difficult for me to criticize the FO. But I agree with you and some others here - we likely overpaid to get "our guy," and I truly do think Kahnle has a chance to be a pretty dominant reliever for the Yankees as they make their run over the next several years. We are stopping Cubs by cancelling out Q for WS matchup, haha. Most NY Yankees fans don't even believe they will make playoffs after this deal, even...wanted another starting pitcher instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 07:47 AM) We are stopping Cubs by cancelling out Q for WS matchup, haha. Most NY Yankees fans don't even believe they will make playoffs after this deal, even...wanted another starting pitcher instead. I think they'll still add a starter. Rutherford was the only guy of value they lost, still think they could build a package for a rental and not give up Torres/Frazier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 06:45 AM) Everyone has been spoiled from previous trades. It's hilarious that people are complaining about this deal. One Fangraphs article and suddenly people think Kahnle is the second coming. People were HOPING we'd get Soto from Washington for Robertson and we do one better and package the three and land Rutherford. Think about the package agreed to for Robertson in the winter and what Detroit got for Martinez. I think this is a good return for the Sox. Or Madson/Doolittle....they have the track records compared to Kahnle. No idea how he responds to that pressure cooker and constant media scrutiny...facing the Red Sox at a packed Fenway, Toronto, Baltimore, etc. Almost all NY road games are sold out in most MLB markets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 QUOTE (Username @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 06:50 AM) I think they'll still add a starter. Rutherford was the only guy of value they lost, still think they could build a package for a rental and not give up Torres/Frazier. Unless its Archer, Cole or Sonny Gray... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericUserName Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Here is what I don't get right now: people were throwing around trade ideas of packaging Robertson & Kahnle and a third piece for Robles straight up and everyone said that was crazy and we would never do that. Instead we get a lesser prospect and two lotto tickets and suddenly everyone loves it? This whole deal basically revolves around Rutherford now. I feel like the only way we can win this trade is if Rutherford hits his cieling AND Kahnle regresses to an average ML pitcher or one of the lotto tickets becomes a good player or we are able to flip Clippard for something of value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 07:51 AM) Unless its Archer, Cole or Sonny Gray... Hahn has done a tremendous job of using prior trade conversations to still get the majority of what he wants in deals. Conversations with the Nationals for Sale laid the groundwork for the Eaton deal. Conversations with the Yankees about Quintana laid the groundwork for the Frazier/Robertson/Kahnle deal. Now all we have to do is deal Melky, Swarzak, and maybe Avi and stage one of the rebuild is complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 QUOTE (GenericUserName @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:07 AM) Here is what I don't get right now: people were throwing around trade ideas of packaging Robertson & Kahnle and a third piece for Robles straight up and everyone said that was crazy and we would never do that. Instead we get a lesser prospect and two lotto tickets and suddenly everyone loves it? This whole deal basically revolves around Rutherford now. I feel like the only way we can win this trade is if Rutherford hits his cieling AND Kahnle regresses to an average ML pitcher or one of the lotto tickets becomes a good player or we are able to flip Clippard for something of value. You are overvaluing what we just traded. 1) Frazier is a pure rental and not worth much in a deal on his own 2) Robertson is a fairly high priced closer on a team with no use for him. Nice to get that salary off of our books. 3) Kahnle has had 3 months of good production, but the track record does not back it up. Could it be a full breakout? Sure, but given what happened to Jones I'm not sure we want to try and get greedy. "Hogs get fat, pigs get slaughtered" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 QUOTE (GenericUserName @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 06:07 AM) Here is what I don't get right now: people were throwing around trade ideas of packaging Robertson & Kahnle and a third piece for Robles straight up and everyone said that was crazy and we would never do that. Instead we get a lesser prospect and two lotto tickets and suddenly everyone loves it? This whole deal basically revolves around Rutherford now. I feel like the only way we can win this trade is if Rutherford hits his cieling AND Kahnle regresses to an average ML pitcher or one of the lotto tickets becomes a good player or we are able to flip Clippard for something of value. Yeah, there is a lot of justification going on here, but that's ok. We all are going to be watching a lot of bad baseball for awhile now, no need to torture ourselves about missed opportunities from trades that were made. I'm just hoping they basically like Rutherford as much or nearly as much as Robles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 The big disconnect here was basically money. Robertson got basically a non return because of the Frazier/robo cash. Kind of annoying but Robert and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericUserName Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:12 AM) You are overvaluing what we just traded. 1) Frazier is a pure rental and not worth much in a deal on his own 2) Robertson is a fairly high priced closer on a team with no use for him. Nice to get that salary off of our books. 3) Kahnle has had 3 months of good production, but the track record does not back it up. Could it be a full breakout? Sure, but given what happened to Jones I'm not sure we want to try and get greedy. "Hogs get fat, pigs get slaughtered" This point is completely irrelevant. First, I believe most people would agree that Robertson is highly priced, it is a fair price when looking at the markert for closers. Secondly, we were going to trade him, so the value of getting his salary off the books is the same for any trade we would make where we didn't take money. Except we did have to take money in the form of Clippard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:19 AM) The big disconnect here was basically money. Robertson got basically a non return because of the Frazier/robo cash. Kind of annoying but Robert and all. I'm sure Hahn shopped hard and felt this was going to be the best overall return. We all have skewed views from the insane returns that Chapman and Miller received last season. Lets not kid ourselves and pretend we really care all that much about dealing Robertson or Kahnle. Kahnle broke out and helped us land a top 50 prospect in Rutherford, we should all be happy. Cashman is a smart GM, he's not going to let us completely fleece him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:22 AM) I'm sure Hahn shopped hard and felt this was going to be the best overall return. We all have skewed views from the insane returns that Chapman and Miller received last season. Lets not kid ourselves and pretend we really care all that much about dealing Robertson or Kahnle. Kahnle broke out and helped us land a top 50 prospect in Rutherford, we should all be happy. Cashman is a smart GM, he's not going to let us completely fleece him. You can say that again. Edited July 19, 2017 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 QUOTE (GenericUserName @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:21 AM) This point is completely irrelevant. First, I believe most people would agree that Robertson is highly priced, it is a fair price when looking at the markert for closers. Secondly, we were going to trade him, so the value of getting his salary off the books is the same for any trade we would make where we didn't take money. Except we did have to take money in the form of Clippard. Irrelevant to most fans? Probably, but it makes business sense for the Sox to save roughly $20 million for a rebuilding club. I can guarantee you Hahn shopped Robertson and Kahnle on their own and was not thrilled with the offers. A rebuilding club should always be trading relievers due to their volatility as I have stated many times. We will not miss any of the players we just traded, especially by the time we are ready to compete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 06:22 AM) I'm sure Hahn shopped hard and felt this was going to be the best overall return. We all have skewed views from the insane returns that Chapman and Miller received last season. Lets not kid ourselves and pretend we really care all that much about dealing Robertson or Kahnle. Kahnle broke out and helped us land a top 50 prospect in Rutherford, we should all be happy. Cashman is a smart GM, he's not going to let us completely fleece him. Come on, this is completely crazy talk. If that is the thinking, then who is Rutherford in the grand scheme of things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 06:24 AM) Irrelevant to most fans? Probably, but it makes business sense for the Sox to save roughly $20 million for a rebuilding club. I can guarantee you Hahn shopped Robertson and Kahnle on their own and was not thrilled with the offers. A rebuilding club should always be trading relievers due to their volatility as I have stated many times. We will not miss any of the players we just traded, especially by the time we are ready to compete. He said everyone was calling on Kahnle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Kahnle has had 3 good months pitching for a terrible team in low leverage situations. Now he's going to have to do it in NY. Good luck, kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) Yankees' fans royally pissed they used to have both Q and Kahnle...not to mention could have simply kept Robertson for a new contract extension two years ago. Btw, MLBtraderumors has a huge discussion thread from all baseball fans at that trade article...interesting stuff to hear perceptions from fans of other teams. Edited July 19, 2017 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericUserName Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:24 AM) Irrelevant to most fans? Probably, but it makes business sense for the Sox to save roughly $20 million for a rebuilding club. I can guarantee you Hahn shopped Robertson and Kahnle on their own and was not thrilled with the offers. A rebuilding club should always be trading relievers due to their volatility as I have stated many times. We will not miss any of the players we just traded, especially by the time we are ready to compete. But what I'm saying is that we were to get rid of that salary anyway in any trade for him so that should not be a positive of this trade relative to other trade options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 06:28 AM) Yankees' fans royally pissed they used to have both Q and Kahnle...not to mention could have simply kept Robertson for a new contract extension two years ago. Btw, MLBtraderumors has a huge discussion thread from all baseball fans at that trade article...interesting stuff to hear perceptions from fans of other teams. Which is f***ing ridiculous. They also have Gleyber Torres from trading Chapman...and then went and signed Chapman. I guess anyone who ever played for the Yankees affiliates should just be sent back to NY once they become good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneofthemikes Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 QUOTE (beautox @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 02:52 AM) nice piece on Polo from everyone's favorite pirate prospecting site If the sox hit the lotto with Polo we're looking at Alejandro De Aza, the mid point would be rob Mackowiak and the low point would be org filler. This link isn't taking me to anything about Polo. Am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 I will be seriously disappointed if Goldberg doesn't come in to old WCW music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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