RockRaines Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 09:01 AM) We're going to have big problems if we can't find five starters between the following 12 guys: Giolito Lopez Fulmer Kopech Adams Guerrero Stephens Hansen Dunning Flores Clarkin Cease And we may only need four starters depending on if they view Rodon as a long-term piece. Yeah, and I'm still worried. Seems 1-3 SP's are pretty hard to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 09:58 AM) So Brian Cashman was just on MLB radio and actually said he and Kenny hammered this deal out. He is very proud of his system and mentioned that often times other GMs will ask about some of his top guys, and he said he has to try and make it clear, that because of the depth of his system, oftentimes his 8-12 might be more equivalent to another team's 1-5. Other GMs don't want to hear that when he is trying to take guys like Torres and Mateo and Rutherford off the table. Sounds like they really wanted Quintana. We must have been asking for Torres and Rutherford or something. Oh no, if Blake fails we are never going to hear the end of how it was a Kenny move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 09:58 AM) So Brian Cashman was just on MLB radio and actually said he and Kenny hammered this deal out. He is very proud of his system and mentioned that often times other GMs will ask about some of his top guys, and he said he has to try and make it clear, that because of the depth of his system, oftentimes his 8-12 might be more equivalent to another team's 1-5. Other GMs don't want to hear that when he is trying to take guys like Torres and Mateo and Rutherford off the table. Sounds like they really wanted Quintana. We must have been asking for Torres and Rutherford or something. I bet the Sox were being fair with offers but honestly, Yanks would have to deal Torres to top Eloy Jimenez anyway. Jimenez is better than anyone in Yankees system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 08:13 AM) I bet the Sox were being fair with offers but honestly, Yanks would have to deal Torres to top Eloy Jimenez anyway. Jimenez is better than anyone in Yankees system. Yeah, my guess is we wanted Torres and Rutherford, and they pushed Mateo. Who knows, maybe because of Timmy we were asking for a guy like Frazier. It is really hard to know what the Yankees situation would be because of TA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 10:18 AM) Yeah, my guess is we wanted Torres and Rutherford, and they pushed Mateo. Who knows, maybe because of Timmy we were asking for a guy like Frazier. It is really hard to know what the Yankees situation would be because of TA. Yankees would have had to part with Torres ++ in order to land Quintana, which they obviously were not willing to do Atlanta put Albies on the table, Cubs put Jimenez on the table, Yankees put Rutherford...hard to really top the Cubs package though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 09:21 AM) Not from an fWAR perspective...Leury was worth more than Robertson, for example. Well I think using fWAR is a stupid way to value relievers against other players. WAR is partially volume driven and ignores context, so relievers are unfairly punished. Just look at what teams are paying for high leverage relievers and tell me with a straight face that you honestly think they're worth less than 5th starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 10:01 AM) Yeah, and I'm still worried. Seems 1-3 SP's are pretty hard to find. Finding TOR starters I agree with, but Clarkin doesn't help there anyways. Edited July 20, 2017 by Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 WTF was Kenny doing the deal with Cashman? Hahn was generous and said he could negotiate a deal after he traded Sale, Eaton, and Q? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 08:50 AM) WTF was Kenny doing the deal with Cashman? Hahn was generous and said he could negotiate a deal after he traded Sale, Eaton, and Q? The two of them go way back. Just familiarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Does anyone know if Rutherford & Polo are going to be active tonight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Was Polo assigned yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 09:01 AM) We're going to have big problems if we can't find five starters between the following 12 guys: Giolito Lopez Fulmer Kopech Adams Guerrero Stephens Hansen Dunning Flores Clarkin Cease And we may only need four starters depending on if they view Rodon as a long-term piece. Seriously, though. We're in fabulous shape in the pitching department. Worst case scenario we can fill in the gaps with FAs. We'll certainly have plenty of $$ to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Everybody talks about shedding the salary and the money being an important factor here. Why is this so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 10:50 AM) WTF was Kenny doing the deal with Cashman? Hahn was generous and said he could negotiate a deal after he traded Sale, Eaton, and Q? Just think, some people still actually believe that Hahn and Williams are separate entities, have different philosophies etc. So ignorant to think that Kenny hates prospects, Hahn likes rebuilds etc. so ignorant to think they are separate. They are a brotherhood. A two-headed snake that always shares the same goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 11:59 AM) Just think, some people still actually believe that Hahn and Williams are separate entities, have different philosophies etc. So ignorant to think that Kenny hates prospects, Hahn likes rebuilds etc. so ignorant to think they are separate. They are a brotherhood. A two-headed snake that always shares the same goal. Let's be clear: regardless of what you think of who is different than who, you have to recognize that the regime that is making moves right now is NOT the same regime that went for it every year. We simplify it by saying "Williams vs Hahn" but what we're really saying is the "Williams FO" vs the "Hahn FO". This is clearly a different, Rick driven, regime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 QUOTE (iWin4Ron @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 11:56 AM) Everybody talks about shedding the salary and the money being an important factor here. Why is this so? My guess is the Robert signing. Opens opportunities to add in a few years as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 10:18 AM) Was Polo assigned yet? Pretty confident he'll be in AA, such a logjam at A+ right now and he was hitting for the Yankees in AA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (iWin4Ron @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 10:56 AM) Everybody talks about shedding the salary and the money being an important factor here. Why is this so? So that money can be allocated elsewhere. We signed Robert knowing we were eventually going to clear some salary. Edited July 20, 2017 by SonofaRoache Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 12:08 PM) Let's be clear: regardless of what you think of who is different than who, you have to recognize that the regime that is making moves right now is NOT the same regime that went for it every year. We simplify it by saying "Williams vs Hahn" but what we're really saying is the "Williams FO" vs the "Hahn FO". This is clearly a different, Rick driven, regime. Yes it is the same. Look they rode the Paulie Core as long as they could, supplementing it along the way by trading our prospects, who almost always amounted to nothing anyway. JR is probably to blame for never spending the extra 10-20M to put the team over the top. Always a player or two short. Then Rick & KW realized Sale was thr next piece to build around so they tried to flip cores really quickly. It almost worked but it didn't. So now Rick & KW decided to trade everybody to restock the farm only because the cheap deals they were on allowed them to get the top prospects in the game, skipping years of sucking for draft picks. It's f***ing genius. I think they realized they needed to change their drafting and international scouting once the rules changed and leveled the field. But to think KW isn't a HUGE part of the brain behind all of this is insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 11:08 AM) Let's be clear: regardless of what you think of who is different than who, you have to recognize that the regime that is making moves right now is NOT the same regime that went for it every year. We simplify it by saying "Williams vs Hahn" but what we're really saying is the "Williams FO" vs the "Hahn FO". This is clearly a different, Rick driven, regime. I think they got tired of failing and decided to change also. But your point is valid, although the new guys haven't proven to be successful at bringing in guys who succeed in the league just yet. We have new instructors and systems in place, but the jury is still out if it will actually work. I'm not a fan of rebuilds unless you absolutely have to do it but these guys did an outstanding job getting prospects in the farm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Hope everyone saw that Nats won't trade a top prospect even for Justin Wilson, who has more value than DRob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 01:38 PM) Hope everyone saw that Nats won't trade a top prospect even for Justin Wilson, who has more value than DRob No Robles/Fedde/Soto... Doesn't mean they won't actually do it...but would you have taken Kieboom for Robertson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 08:43 PM) No Robles/Fedde/Soto... Doesn't mean they won't actually do it...but would you have taken Kieboom for Robertson? Matters how much money is involved. First instinct is yes, but I think not having to cover anything was a vital part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 This is an interesting take by Jeff Ellis on some of Blake Rutherford's struggles:http://www.scout.com/mlb/scouting/story/1792445-white-sox-yankees-trade Blake Rutherford is the gem of this deal. I had him as the number one player in the 2016 draft, because I believed strongly in his hit tool. There has been talk about issues with his power production this year and how he has been merely average in low A. First off, Charleston is one of, if not the worst, places to hit home runs in the minors. Rutherford’s home runs might be down, but he has 20 doubles on the year, which shows he is still hitting the ball hard. It is a horrible place for hitters in general, so I have little concern about a kid in his second year in the minors being a league average batter in a park that suppresses everything. Rutherford has mostly played center, but his future is in left field, where I think the bat will play. His approach is still strong, and I would expect to see his numbers trend upward now that he is out of Charleston. This deal was mostly about Rutherford, but I still think he is one of the top 30 prospects in baseball. The White Sox turned a rental, a reclamation project, and an overpriced reliever into another high ceiling potential middle of the lineup type of bat; that is a win, for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Like I mentioned a few days ago, I think the insane trade predictions by Nightengale messed with our expectations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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