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Sox send Frazier/DRob/Kahnle to NY ~ Rutherford/Clarkin/Clippard/Polo

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 3, 2018 -> 06:18 PM)
Let me ask you this...what are the odds he turns into a better player than Avi?

Slim to none

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 3, 2018 -> 05:18 PM)
Let me ask you this...what are the odds he turns into a better player than Avi?

 

We don’t even know who the real Avi is

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QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Apr 3, 2018 -> 04:18 PM)
The only takeaway is they aren?€t that great at evaluating players at A level and below. Above that level they are much better. I?€m seriously amazed how so many of you have completely given up on Rutherford after how useless Leury Garcia, Sanchez, Avi, Davidson, etc all looked for years and have now become contributors. It took Micker years to show anything at all. If he ends up being a late bloomer who doesn?€t get to the majors until 24-25 so what? Not everyone fast tracks it through the minors. He didn?€t suddenly lose the natural talent he has.

 

If those five players you just mentioned are a part of the next playoff team, or contribute back pieces to it...it?€s a win. Another takeaway is that Preller has an encyclopedic obsession with Latin America, but pushes borders ethically, lol (see fired Braves’ GM or Chris Correa of the Cards/Astros.)

 

Time will tell.

 

They did make the right call on Quintana at that High A/AA stage...and he got them back Jimenez and Cease. For all we know, that one waiver claim is what pushes the rebuild over the top.

Edited by caulfield12

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 3, 2018 -> 05:18 PM)
Let me ask you this...what are the odds he turns into a better player than Avi?

Right now I’m not optimistic because of how poorly he performed in 2017. Even with BABIP regression, Avi is probably a 2 to 2.5 WAR player and it’s hard to automatically assume any prospect in low A is going to be that good in the majors short of the most elite prospects. Rutherford is definitely not that type prospect.

 

But I’m a huge fan of prospects who are considered to have plus hit tools, strong plate discipline, & projectable bodies. I get why scouts were intrigued with Rutherford, although I do think he was bit overrated even before his poor 2017 season. But the talent is there IMO, the question is can he be harnessed. I am concerned whether the Sox are the team that can actually do that or not and the Yankees selling him at a low point is an obvious red flag. I’m still taking a wait and see approach on this deal because the preliminary returns from their other big trades look fantastic and the Sox were obviously high on Rutherford and hopefully did their homework.

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 3, 2018 -> 05:02 PM)
I’m not suggesting teams would have given up much for him.

 

I’m suggesting I would have preferred NOT to have to package Kahnle to give the Yankees the privilege of getting a guy back that had high-leverage experience in New York.

 

I would have much preferred to give them Swarzak, Robertson and Frazier for Tito Polo and Clarkin, for instance.

 

I would absolutely include a middle reliever to get a top positional prospect. Even the best middle relievers are worth no where near what a starting CF is worth, let alone a potential star one.

 

Swarzak brought back his own potential starting OF in Cordell, so that would under two trades there. When it comes to middle relief, the Sox can trade it away all day as far as I am concerned for those sorts of returns.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 3, 2018 -> 03:44 PM)
I would absolutely include a middle reliever to get a top positional prospect. Even the best middle relievers are worth no where near what a starting CF is worth, let alone a potential star one.

 

Swarzak brought back his own potential starting OF in Cordell, so that would under two trades there. When it comes to middle relief, the Sox can trade it away all day as far as I am concerned for those sorts of returns.

I think you are underselling Kahnle there. He doesn’t profile as a “middle reliever” in any bullpen other than perhaps the one he currently finds himself. He was starting to show the ability to be an elite high-leverage reliever when we moved him.

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Hopefully if the Sox have a regular prospect failure rate, if Rutherford is one , hopefully Micah Johnson, Frankie Montas, Trayce Thompson, count as well, the Sox could be in pretty good shape. Obviously it would be nice if Rutherford somehow becomes the player many had thought he could become, but I think it is more important their better prospects turn out. Then they really would be cooking with gas.

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Kahnle read this thread and just struck out 4/5 batters...gave up tying run, inherited.

 

Velocity was down to 94-95, touching 96, but his other pitches like the slider and change were effective.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 3, 2018 -> 04:24 PM)
If those five players you just mentioned are a part of the next playoff team, or contribute back pieces to it...it?€s a win. Another takeaway is that Preller has an encyclopedic obsession with Latin America, but pushes borders ethically, lol (see fired Braves’ GM or Chris Correa of the Cards/Astros.)

 

Time will tell.

 

They did make the right call on Quintana at that High A/AA stage...and he got them back Jimenez and Cease. For all we know, that one waiver claim is what pushes the rebuild over the top.

Sox got very lucky on the Quintana pickup.

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Apr 3, 2018 -> 05:41 PM)
Right now I’m not optimistic because of how poorly he performed in 2017. Even with BABIP regression, Avi is probably a 2 to 2.5 WAR player and it’s hard to automatically assume any prospect in low A is going to be that good in the majors short of the most elite prospects. Rutherford is definitely not that type prospect.

 

But I’m a huge fan of prospects who are considered to have plus hit tools, strong plate discipline, & projectable bodies. I get why scouts were intrigued with Rutherford, although I do think he was bit overrated even before his poor 2017 season. But the talent is there IMO, the question is can he be harnessed. I am concerned whether the Sox are the team that can actually do that or not and the Yankees selling him at a low point is an obvious red flag. I’m still taking a wait and see approach on this deal because the preliminary returns from their other big trades look fantastic and the Sox were obviously high on Rutherford and hopefully did their homework.

 

 

Same here

I’m not real confident in Rutherford hitting his ceiling either. Honestly our organization doesn’t have the best history of developing these types of players, but might as well be patient at this point. Would love if he could be our version of Max Kepler who I have an armchair scout crush on.

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I just wanted to add to the conversation here... that I live in Charleston and had the opportunity to see a lot of Rutherford playing with the Riverdogs. The Ryan Sweeney comps aren't off. There isn't anything he does that stands out. He was just "good" at about everything. Saw a lot of pitches, hit for a decent average. Hit some homers and got some extrabase hits. Ran the bases well. Took decent routes and hit the cutoff man. Didn't make a lot of mistakes. But there's nothing about him that screams out "All-Star" or franchise cornerstone. He was a hyped prospect mostly because of where he was selected and less about what he can do on a field.

 

My guess is the Sox asked for a lot from the Yankees in that deal but because of the financials involved were probably given a list of 8 guys the Yankees would include and were told "pick 3".

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QUOTE (Charlie Haeger's Knuckles @ Apr 4, 2018 -> 01:28 PM)
I just wanted to add to the conversation here... that I live in Charleston and had the opportunity to see a lot of Rutherford playing with the Riverdogs. The Ryan Sweeney comps aren't off. There isn't anything he does that stands out. He was just "good" at about everything. Saw a lot of pitches, hit for a decent average. Hit some homers and got some extrabase hits. Ran the bases well. Took decent routes and hit the cutoff man. Didn't make a lot of mistakes. But there's nothing about him that screams out "All-Star" or franchise cornerstone. He was a hyped prospect mostly because of where he was selected and less about what he can do on a field.

 

My guess is the Sox asked for a lot from the Yankees in that deal but because of the financials involved were probably given a list of 8 guys the Yankees would include and were told "pick 3".

Wonder who the 8 were

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In fairness to Sweeney, he had one of the prettiest swings I've ever seen, on any level. It's not hard to see why people were excited about him. Some guys just don't pan out. It happens to more prospects than those who make it, in literally every single organization.

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QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Apr 4, 2018 -> 02:28 PM)
In fairness to Sweeney, he had one of the prettiest swings I've ever seen, on any level. It's not hard to see why people were excited about him. Some guys just don't pan out. It happens to more prospects than those who make it, in literally every single organization.

Fangraphs also had Sweeney putting up 6 WAR between 2008-2009. That's not bad either.

 

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 15, 2018 -> 09:38 PM)
So, apparently so far this year Tommy Kahnle has been an utter disaster with an ERA close to 9. His fastball is down 3 mph and the Yanks are worried.

 

Always Trade Relievers™

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 15, 2018 -> 10:38 PM)
So, apparently so far this year Tommy Kahnle has been an utter disaster with an ERA close to 9. His fastball is down 3 mph and the Yanks are worried.

 

Yeah, not willing to deem this trade a bust right now.

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Clarkin is a lefty starter who has looked really solid so far in his 2 starts. Polo could be a 4th OF. This trade is looking like a big time win.

 

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Can we argue that Clarkin is now ahead of Guerrero/Stephens as the next starter in line after Dunning?

 

1) Kopech

 

2A) Cease

2B) Hansen (I know some will argue it's not quite fair to jump Cease up so quickly, but...)

 

3) Dunning

 

4) Clarkin

 

5/6) Guerrero or Stephens

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QUOTE (ron883 @ Apr 15, 2018 -> 10:17 PM)
Clarkin is a lefty starter who has looked really solid so far in his 2 starts. Polo could be a 4th OF. This trade is looking like a big time win.

And there’s the jinx. Thank god you didn’t mention Blake, maybe he’ll return to blue chip form now.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 15, 2018 -> 11:00 PM)
Can we argue that Clarkin is now ahead of Guerrero/Stephens as the next starter in line after Dunning?

 

1) Kopech

 

2A) Cease

2B) Hansen (I know some will argue it's not quite fair to jump Cease up so quickly, but...)

 

3) Dunning

 

4) Clarkin

 

5/6) Guerrero or Stephens

I think you’re overreacting to two good starts.

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Apr 15, 2018 -> 11:03 PM)
I think you’re overreacting to two good starts.

I see where you're coming from but I don't think he is. Clarkin has always been very good, he just hasn't stayed healthy

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Apr 15, 2018 -> 11:00 PM)
And there’s the jinx. Thank god you didn’t mention Blake, maybe he’ll return to blue chip form now.

If this jinx and antijinx talk is true I should probly criticize your posts a bit. Maybe then you'll turn it around and we'll get some quality posts from you

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Apr 15, 2018 -> 10:03 PM)
I think you’re overreacting to two good starts.

 

Well, considering most of the board has Stephens going to the bullpen...Clarkin, theoretically, has a bit more value as a LHP and theoretical #4/5 starter.

 

Now whether he's ahead of Guerrero, I'll let those who follow the minors more closely make that decision in terms of the upsides for each.

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