caulfield12 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Any teams come to mind? Obviously, the 2000 White Sox were ranked as the #1 farm system in baseball, with Rauch at the top. Of all the prospects from that time period Buehrle (barely in Top 10), Garland and Crede were the main ones to make an impact with the Sox. Pretty sure Rowand wasn't officially with that class. There were a lot more failures than successes, at any rate. The heart of the 2005 World Series team came from the Contreras/Loaiza trade, the Garcia for Morse/Reed/Olivo deal, Pods/Vizcaino (last guy in pen) for Lee, picking up Jenks for free from the Angels and a slew of nearly perfect free agent moves, along with young holdovers like Uribe (Aaron Miles) and otherworldly bullpen performances from Cotts, Politte and Hermanson. This was all made possible due to the dumping of Lee/Ordonez/Valentin, in large part. At any rate, there was a recent statistic/blurb here about the number of teams with Top 5 farm systems and how all of them (almost) at least made the playoffs within 5 years of being ranked by Baseball America, correct? Was that pinned? Where did it go? How many teams with Top 2 systems didn't at least win their divisions (once) during that five year time frame? Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 I feel like this topic title was click bait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 27, 2017 Author Share Posted July 27, 2017 (edited) Nope. It's a legitimate question. It was here, SOMEWHERE...but we don't have a way to search specifically through the site to find it. http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2015717...es-sooner-think A Cubs-White Sox World Series could come sooner than you think The Cubs' timeline for winning has been scrutinized time and again, and the process through which they became a model franchise is one that other teams are scrambling to replicate. The bottom line: The rebuild wasn't in effect, at least in terms of regular-season play, until the start of the 2012 season. They went on to lose 101 games. The Cubs made the postseason in 2015, after making their first major free-agent splurge to augment their young core with the signing of Jon Lester. They won the World Series in 2016, the fifth season of the rebuild. That's extraordinarily fast, but if Hahn and the White Sox can match that timeline, then we're looking at the White Sox leaping into contention by 2020 and challenging for a title in 2021. That, if you recall, is the conservative estimate we put on the Cubs' current window of elite contention. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-white-s...g-bets-on-risk/ White Sox big bets on risk (Dave Cameron) Rick Hahn deserves a lot of credit for the moves he’s made in rebuilding the White Sox, and the team certainly has a brighter future now than they did at the end of last year. That said, there’s also a pretty clear pattern emerging among the guys the White Sox have acquired; the perceived upside outstrips the actual performance record right now. Put simply, the White Sox have repeatedly bet on guys whose hype isn’t quite yet supported by actual performance. Let’s take a look at those same prospects again, only instead of looking at BA’s rankings, let’s look at how they rate by Chris Mitchell’s KATOH system, which is based solely on a player’s performance record. We’ll also include their KATOH+ ratings, which adds in BA’s rankings for an attempt at a holistic stats-and-scouting blend. For every one of the main pieces returned in the team’s four big trades, the stats-only version of KATOH is lower than the KATOH+ version, which incorporates BA’s rankings. And not in small ways. Based solely on their performance data to this point, Moncada and Jimenez project to produce about half of the value compared to when you include their BA rankings. And Rutherford stands out as the biggest outlier of all, ranking as a top-tier prospect in both the pre-season and mid-season BA lists, but grading out as a fringe prospect at best by his actual performance record to this point. Of course, stats-only models are ignoring hugely important factors in a player’s development, and no one should look at KATOH’s numbers and think those are the right ones. Performance record is important, but it’s definitely not everything, and you’re always better off including as much good information as you can, which is why KATOH+ will do a better job of projecting players than the stats-only model. But it’s also not a coincidence that these were the guys who weren’t off limits in negotiations. While it’s not like the Red Sox were eager to give up Yoan Moncada, his performance — specifically his contact rate — raised some red flags, and made him a bit more of an offensive question mark that the usual type of players who are rated as the best overall prospect in the game. The upside is obvious, but as Chris Mitchell noted this morning, the bust potential here is also high enough that KATOH isn’t quite as high on him as everyone else. The same is true of Jimenez and Rutherford, both of whom project as corner outfielders, and will have to hit really well to be legitimate stars in the big leagues. Jimenez is doing actual damage against low-minors pitchers, but Rutherford isn’t yet showing much power, and both of these guys are basically nothing if they don’t hit. And the history of guys who have to hit in order to be valuable big leaguers is strewn with top prospects who didn’t pan out. Again, plenty of risk here. Then they get started on the pitchers... These seven guys (starting pitchers) all have really impressive physical tools, but they also each have pretty significant flaws at the moment, most of them revolving around the strike zone. Certainly, these guys can improve from what they currently are, but part of the reason the White Sox were able to acquire all these guys is that their development is anything but guaranteed. Rick Hahn prioritized upside in his acquisitions, and while he’s done a great job picking up guys that have obviously high ceilings, we also shouldn’t be surprised when most of these guys don’t make it (not to mention two guys with TJS on their resumes, my comment). Obviously, there are risks with every prospect, and saying that a bunch of them are going to fail isn’t breaking news. But it’s notable that the White Sox have landed risky prospects even by prospect standards, and the performance records of the guys Hahn has been acquiring don’t yet match up with their prospect rankings. For these deals to work out as well as the White Sox hope, their player development system is going to have to take some raw materials and turn them into polished big leaguers. Edited July 27, 2017 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 The White Sox might be years away from contending, but when I wrote about the Astros back in 2014, I looked at the struggling teams with top-five farm systems and how they fared in subsequent years. We're dealing with a small sample -- just 15 teams. But in the last decade, there have been 15 teams who placed in the top five of a Baseball America farm-system ranking, and only one of them didn't make the playoffs within four seasons. The one that didn't made it in the fifth season. Only three of the 15 weren't over .500 four seasons later. That isn’t to say that a prospect ranking is something that guarantees success. But it’s the sign of an organization that’s doing something right, and an organization that does something right is more likely to do several things right. The White Sox targeted the best prospects in baseball, and they nabbed them in an era when teams are extremely reticent to trade them. That’s evidence that the White Sox front office possess a level of craftiness and skullduggery that will serve them well. link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowand's rowdies Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 I posted this a few weeks back. Was this it? Baseball America Organizational Talent Rankings 2010 TB TEX CLE SF BOS 2011 KC TB ATL TOR NYY 2012 TEX KC SD AZ TOR 2013 STL SEA TEX TB MIA 2014 PIT BOS MIN CHC HOU 2015 CHC BOS LAD MIN NYM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 This article might feed some information: http://m.mlb.com/news/article/214666508/pr...league-success/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 27, 2017 Author Share Posted July 27, 2017 Yep, thanks to everyone. So apparently, the White Sox have the "riskiest" Top 1/2 farm system in the history of baseball. Typical. With the least experienced (Getz) or most lackluster (Buddy Bell/Laumann still hanging on?) as key decision-makers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 02:45 PM) Yep, thanks to everyone. So apparently, the White Sox have the "riskiest" Top 1/2 farm system in the history of baseball. Typical. With the least experienced (Getz) or most lackluster (Buddy Bell/Laumann still hanging on?) as key decision-makers... You b****ing about the talent in the farm? Seems weird. Yeah, it could all miss. It always could. That is why they are prospects. That is why you get 4 of them for good players. If Moncada and Kopech were guaranteed to meet their ceilings, there is no way they get traded. That is how it works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 (edited) This is the quote, from Fan Graphs' Dave Cameron, that stands out to me: "For these deals to work out as well as the White Sox hope, their player development system is going to have to take some raw materials and turn them into polished big leaguers". With this team's future completely invested in their farm system, if management doesn't make a concerted effort to put in place the right coaching staff, failing would be as much their responsibility, as it would be the failure of the prospects, themselves. I have no idea from where the help would come, or how feasible it is to acquire competent coaches and instructors, but that should be the goal. The front office should certainly have sufficient financial resources to dedicate toward that goal, as the team's payroll projects to be as low it has been, in a long time. Edited July 27, 2017 by Lillian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Yeah I don't really carea bout that Cameron article. We aren't talking about dramatic Katoh difference. They'd still be top 100 prospects. He also didn't do much analysis on whether that discrepancy even matters. The things top farm systems had that others don't: depth of top prospects. That is ability to produce a bunch of good players even if some fail. Sox are going to be in that boat, and In 1-2 years I see a bunch of those players that the sox have milked more success out than expected in players like Jordan Stephens, Jordan Guerrero, and Spencer Adams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Also why do you keep referencing things without pointing to their source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 02:26 PM) Nope. It's a legitimate question. It was here, SOMEWHERE...but we don't have a way to search specifically through the site to find it. It's a legitimate question, but I clicked on the topic assuming to see a list and there was none. Now people have responded and there is. Having a good farm always means a team is more likely for future success, but don't most teams make the playoffs in a five-year window anyway? 21 teams have made at least one postseason appearance since 2013. So more than 2/3 the league has been in a four-year window. Just because the White Sox haven't been since 2008 doesn't mean a majority of the league has a similar drought going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 QUOTE (danman31 @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 04:43 PM) It's a legitimate question, but I clicked on the topic assuming to see a list and there was none. Now people have responded and there is. Having a good farm always means a team is more likely for future success, but don't most teams make the playoffs in a five-year window anyway? 21 teams have made at least one postseason appearance since 2013. So more than 2/3 the league has been in a four-year window. Just because the White Sox haven't been since 2008 doesn't mean a majority of the league has a similar drought going. Ha, damn this was good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 12:45 PM) Yep, thanks to everyone. So apparently, the White Sox have the "riskiest" Top 1/2 farm system in the history of baseball. Typical. With the least experienced (Getz) or most lackluster (Buddy Bell/Laumann still hanging on?) as key decision-makers... Why is it the riskiest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 06:29 PM) Why is it the riskiest? Buddy Bell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 28, 2017 Author Share Posted July 28, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 04:29 PM) Why is it the riskiest? Moncada k'ing 30-40% of the time. Jimenez and Rutherford aren't out of this world hitters at corner outfield spots, making them 1.5-2.25 fWAR guys. Kopech never finds his control or gets hurt. Cease and Giolito already with one TJS. Most of the hurlers have concerns about durability, or pitchability, as starters. Robert doesn't live up to his hype. See article above... Edited July 28, 2017 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 10:17 PM) Moncada k'ing 30-40% of the time. Jimenez and Rutherford aren't out of this world hitters at corner outfield spots, making them 1.5-2.25 fWAR guys. Kopech never finds his control or gets hurt. Cease and Giolito already with one TJS. Most of the hurlers have concerns about durability, or pitchability, as starters. Robert doesn't live up to his hype. See article above... two consecutive high draft picks will likely mitigate some of that risk. That's why you stockpile. Odds of all of those things happening and two high first round picks busting starts to become VERY low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 10:17 PM) Moncada k'ing 30-40% of the time. Jimenez and Rutherford aren't out of this world hitters at corner outfield spots, making them 1.5-2.25 fWAR guys. Kopech never finds his control or gets hurt. Cease and Giolito already with one TJS. Most of the hurlers have concerns about durability, or pitchability, as starters. Robert doesn't live up to his hype. See article above... Good god, your posts are unbearable when you get into your negative Nancy moods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 (edited) https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/08/...e53wcI/amp.html According to this article they did pretty well Edited July 28, 2017 by GermanSock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 28, 2017 Author Share Posted July 28, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 11:04 PM) Good god, your posts are unbearable when you get into your negative Nancy moods. He asked the question...it mirrors the arguments made in the fangraphs article, particularly in regards to the position prospects. Who knows, maybe they finally strike gold with Burger. The Sox have usually excelled in having "under the radar" guys like Buehrle, Rowand, and Q hit, rather than the very top guys. Not sure exactly why that is...arguably, pitchers from that era like Josh Fogg and Bradford had more impact than the predicted future studs. Same thing with relievers like Jenks, Santos, Reed, Devenski, Santiago, Guerra, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 28, 2017 Author Share Posted July 28, 2017 Sox Fan in Huskerland...from another thread QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 10:05 PM) * It's really disgusting to have a team this bad. Team has won one game since Q left. The Sox are in a full on rebuild and have sold off nearly all of their valuable MLB assets, what do you seriously expect? If you are not going to be competing for the playoffs, then it is best to be as awful as you can be to stockpile talent via the draft. Look at how the Cubs built a large chunk of their foundation. They sucked for 5 years and are reaping the benefits now. Willson Contreras International FA in 2009 as a 17 year old. Anthony Rizzo traded to Cubs for Andrew Cashner in Jan 2012 after 71-91 season in 2011. Javier Baez drafted with 9th pick in 2011 draft after Cubs went 75-87 the previous year. Addison Russell traded to Cubs for Jeff Samardzija in July 2014. Cubs went 73-89 in 2014. Kris Bryant drafted with 2nd pick in 2013 draft after Cubs went 61-101 the previous year. Kyle Schwarber drafted with 4th pick in 2014 draft after Cubs went 66-96 the previous year. Albert Almora drafted with 6th pick in 2012 draft after Cubs went 71-91 the previous year. Ian Happ drafted with the 9th pick in 2015 draft after Cubs went 73-89 the previous year. From 2010 until 2014 the Cubs went: 2010 - 75-87 2011 - 71-91 2012 - 61-101 Epstein's 1st season as GM. 2013 - 66-96 2014 - 73-89 The Cubs had 5 Top 9 picks, and 2 in the Top 4. Do you think Cubs fans cared about going 61-101 in 2012, after these last 3 seasons? They think Theo Epstein is a genius. The Cubs weren't the only team to completely suck for a bunch of years, stock pile young talent and win a World Series. Look at the Royals. They were built on 3 top 3 picks who turned out to be All Stars (Gordon, Moustakas, & Hosmer), a couple of international signings that turned out great for them (Perez, Ventura, & Herrera), and 2 key pieces from trading off a Cy Young winner in Zack Greinke (Cain & Escobar). C - Perez International FA in 2006 as a 16 year old. 1B - Hosmer 3rd pick in 2008 draft. SS - Escobar traded to Royals for Zack Greinke in Dec. 2010. 3B - Moustakas 2nd pick in 2007 draft. LF - Alex Gordon 2nd pick in 2005 draft. CF - Lorenzo Cain traded to Royals for Zack Greinke in Dec. 2010. P - Ventura International FA in 2008 as a 17 year old. P - Wade Davis traded to Royals in Dec 2012 after going 72-90. P - Herrera International FA in 2006 as a 16 year old. Look at the Astros currently, they have the best record in the AL by 11.5 games. They went 74-88, 76-86, 56-106, 55-107, 51-111, 70-92 from 2009-2014. 1B - Gurriel International FA in 2016 as a 32 year old. 2B - Altuve International FA in 2007 as a 16 year old. SS - Correa 1st pick in 2012 draft after the Astros went 56-106 the previous year. 3B - Bregman 2nd pick in 2015 draft after the Astros failed to sign Brady Aiken in 2014. UT - Marwin Gonzalez traded to Astros in 2011 for Marco Duarte. CF - Springer 11th pick in 2011 draft after the Astros went 76-86 the previous year. P - Marisnick traded to Astros in 2014 for Jarred Cosart P - McCullers 41st pick in 2012 draft. P - Musgrove traded to Astros in 2012 for JA Happ. P - Brad Peacock traded to Astros in 2013 for Jed Lowrie. They also have OF Kyle Tucker in AA tearing it up as a result of the 5th pick in the 2015 draft. The Sox meanwhile have a loaded farm right now. C - Collins, Zavala, Skoug 1B - Gillaspie, Sheets 2B - Moncada SS - ? 3B - Burger OF - Jimenez, Adolfo OF - Robert, Tilson, Basabe OF - Rutherford, Cordell RHP - Kopech, Lopez, Giolito, Cease, Hansen, Adams, Dunning, Burdi, Fulmer, Stephens LHP - Stephens, Clarkin We should get a Top 3 pick in the 2018 draft, and hopefully we get another Top 3 pick in the 2019 draft. I really hope they are elite position players that we get as well(Turang & Witt Jr.). In 2019 we should be ready to start to be competitive again, and should be set for a long time. Look at some of the top picks dating back to 2004: 2004 - Verlander 2nd pick 2005 - Justin Upton 1st pick, Alex Gordon 2nd pick, Ryan Zimmerman 4th pick, Ryan Braun 5th pick, Tulo 7th pick 2006 - Longoria 3rd pick, Kershaw 7th pick 2007 - Price 1st pick, Moustakas 2nd pick, Wieters 5th pick 2008 - Hosmer 3rd pick, Posey 5th pick 2009 - Strasburg 1st pick 2010 - Harper 1st pick, Machado 3rd 2011 - Cole 1st pick, Rendon 6th pick, Lindor 8th pick 2012 - Correa 1st pick 2013 - Bryant 2nd pick 2014 - Rodon 3rd pick 2015 - Bregman 2nd pick, Rogers 3rd pick, Tucker 5th pick, Benintendi 7th pick. The Sox had the 8th pick (Fulmer), and 2 more wins than Boston. If the Sox can hit on a superstar type of player with their upcoming high draft picks, coupled with the talent we have in the minors, and payroll flexibility we should be loaded for a very long, long time. If that means we have to play awful baseball now for 2 years, so be it. We haven't been to the playoffs in 9 seasons. 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South Side Fireworks Man Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 28, 2017 -> 07:04 AM) Sox Fan in Huskerland...from another thread Look at how the Cubs built a large chunk of their foundation. They sucked for 5 years and are reaping the benefits now. Willson Contreras International FA in 2009 as a 17 year old. Anthony Rizzo traded to Cubs for Andrew Cashner in Jan 2012 after 71-91 season in 2011. Javier Baez drafted with 9th pick in 2011 draft after Cubs went 75-87 the previous year. Addison Russell traded to Cubs for Jeff Samardzija in July 2014. Cubs went 73-89 in 2014. Kris Bryant drafted with 2nd pick in 2013 draft after Cubs went 61-101 the previous year. Kyle Schwarber drafted with 4th pick in 2014 draft after Cubs went 66-96 the previous year. Albert Almora drafted with 6th pick in 2012 draft after Cubs went 71-91 the previous year. Ian Happ drafted with the 9th pick in 2015 draft after Cubs went 73-89 the previous year. Cubs got Anthony Rizzo for Andrew Cashner. After the Sox traded Chris Sale, Jose Quintana and Adam Eaton, they still don't have anyone in their organization that is likely become a player as good as Rizzo. Theo didn't have a young, talented, controllable core like Sale, Quintana and Eaton to build around, so he had to tear down and rebuild and he did an extraordinary job. The Sox have traded away more value than Theo did and the jury is still out on the prospects they got in return. The Sox don't have a stellar record when it comes to developing talent. And what are the odds that whomever the Sox draft in 2018 turns out to be as good a player as Kris Bryant? Would JR be willing to bring in an experienced, highly rated manager? I understand what the Sox are trying to do but by no means are they guaranteed to be as successful as the Cubs, Astros or Royals. Some seem to think that just because it worked for the Cubs it's a sure thing it will turn out as successful for the Sox. It could go either way. It would be a shame if it turns out the Sox exchanged a young, inexpensive, controllable core of Sale, Quintana and Eaton for a decade or more of mediocrity. I would have felt better if the Sox were able to trade these guys for top rated prospects with ETAs of 2017 and 2018 and then augment them with good FA signings. Now we'll just have to bear with horrible baseball for a couple of years and wait to see if the Sox organization under Buddy Bell and Chris Getz can develop these A level prospects and hope Moncada doesn't turn out to be another Gordon Beckham. Edited July 28, 2017 by South Side Fireworks Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Jul 28, 2017 -> 07:49 AM) Cubs got Anthony Rizzo for Andrew Cashner. After the Sox traded Chris Sale, Jose Quintana and Adam Eaton, they still don't have anyone in their organization that is likely become a player as good as Rizzo. Theo didn't have a young, talented, controllable core like Sale, Quintana and Eaton to build around, so he had to tear down and rebuild and he did an extraordinary job. The Sox have traded away more value than Theo did and the jury is still out on the prospects they got in return. The Sox don't have a stellar record when it comes to developing talent. And what are the odds that whomever the Sox draft in 2018 turns out to be as good a player as Kris Bryant? Would JR be willing to bring in an experienced, highly rated manager? I understand what the Sox are trying to do but by no means are they guaranteed to be as successful as the Cubs, Astros or Royals. Some seem to think that just because it worked for the Cubs it's a sure thing it will turn out as successful for the Sox. It could go either way. It would be a shame if it turns out the Sox exchanged a young, inexpensive, controllable core of Sale, Quintana and Eaton for a decade or more of mediocrity. I would have felt better if the sox were able to trade these guys for top rated prospects with ETAs of 2017 and 2018 and then augment them with good FA signings. Now we'll just have to bear with horrible baseball for a couple of years and wait to see if the Sox organization under Buddy Bell and Chris getz can develop these A level prospects and hope Moncada doesn't turn out to be another Gordon Beckham. I'm not sure anyone is saying this. But it was time for this organization to cleanse itself and rebuild. We're all just happy that there is finally hope. I was burned out watching them "go for it" the past 5 years only for them to finish near the bottom. It was awful. I know I speak for many here when I say that. Edited July 28, 2017 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 28, 2017 Author Share Posted July 28, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Jul 28, 2017 -> 06:49 AM) Cubs got Anthony Rizzo for Andrew Cashner. After the Sox traded Chris Sale, Jose Quintana and Adam Eaton, they still don't have anyone in their organization that is likely become a player as good as Rizzo. Theo didn't have a young, talented, controllable core like Sale, Quintana and Eaton to build around, so he had to tear down and rebuild and he did an extraordinary job. The Sox have traded away more value than Theo did and the jury is still out on the prospects they got in return. The Sox don't have a stellar record when it comes to developing talent. And what are the odds that whomever the Sox draft in 2018 turns out to be as good a player as Kris Bryant? Would JR be willing to bring in an experienced, highly rated manager? I understand what the Sox are trying to do but by no means are they guaranteed to be as successful as the Cubs, Astros or Royals. Some seem to think that just because it worked for the Cubs it's a sure thing it will turn out as successful for the Sox. It could go either way. It would be a shame if it turns out the Sox exchanged a young, inexpensive, controllable core of Sale, Quintana and Eaton for a decade or more of mediocrity. I would have felt better if the Sox were able to trade these guys for top rated prospects with ETAs of 2017 and 2018 and then augment them with good FA signings. Now we'll just have to bear with horrible baseball for a couple of years and wait to see if the Sox organization under Buddy Bell and Chris Getz can develop these A level prospects and hope Moncada doesn't turn out to be another Gordon Beckham. Edwin Jackson Soler Almora, Jr. (too high a draft pick for 4th outfielder) Heyward Those are probably the biggest mistakes...I guess you can argue Montero based on salary and production. Ian Stewart, Ryan Sweeney, etc., pretty inconsequential. Concepcion, etc. Now the biggest questions are how much Schwarber and Happ hurt them defensively...Zobrist hits an "age wall," and who is the real Addison Russell? Long term, they need two more starters (maybe three, with Hendricks at 84-86) and the bullpen will need to replace Wade Davis with one of Strop, Edwards Jr. and Rondon. Lester has a ton of wear and tear. Maybe they try to extend Davis 3 years? A (potentially) great young two-way catcher like Contreras really covers up a lot, too. Obviously the Bryant/Rizzo tandem. Edited July 28, 2017 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 28, 2017 -> 07:52 AM) I'm not sure anyone is saying this. But it was time for this organization to cleanse itself and rebuild. We're all just happy that there is finally hope. I was burned out watching them "go for it" the past 5 years only for them to finish near the bottom. It was awful. I know I speak for many here when I say that. I agree it was time for the organization to rebuild. I was hoping it would be along the lines of what it seemed Hahn and KW originally were trying to do - trade for young major leaguers and prospects right on the cusp of being major league ready. Trading proven valuable major league assets for prospects that are years away is very risky. I mean we're talking about the contracts of Chris Sale, Jose Quintana and Adam Eaton, not Andrew Cashner. Still, maybe Hahn got the best that he could get. While I understand what the plan is, I don't agree with some of the euphoria with losing and having one of the most horrible teams in baseball as if it guarantees a World Series title down the road because it doesn't. I would say I'm cautiously optimistic about this rebuild, with an emphasis on cautiously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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