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A Star is Born

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Let's hope the struggles are mostly physical and not mental at this point...really need for him to bounce back with a solid September to lay the foundation for 2018.

 

Strikeout pace is off the charts since that walkoff single against Martes.

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 18, 2017 -> 12:02 PM)
eh, i wouldnt go that far. Just like 3 days ago he was on a streak of 8 straight games with a K. He is an adventure in left(at best). He is basically Sox adam dunn right now

 

Baez is probably a better comp for Moncada. Struggled when called up in 2014 with massive K number and was so poor the next Spring Training that he played most of 2015 in AAA. Came into his own in 2016 and had a very good playoff run and is now really establishing himself. Cubs never gave up on him and were patient with him, Sox must do the same with Yoan and we might have to accept that just because he was the #1 prospect in MLB doesn't automatically mean he'll be an overnight superstar.

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All I'm saying is Yoan needs to step it up. You see rookies coming up and mashing now a days, and the #1 prospect in baseball is looking like trash in his second stint up here. Step it the hell up Moncada.

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QUOTE (ron883 @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 12:53 AM)
All I'm saying is Yoan needs to step it up. You see rookies coming up and mashing now a days, and the #1 prospect in baseball is looking like trash in his second stint up here. Step it the hell up Moncada.

 

I come here for the expert analysis

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Moncada's speed and the fact that he plays second base, are two factors that should hold him in good stead. As bad as he has looked, he is seeing a ton of pitches and taking his walks. He is only .25 points from posting a solid .350 OBP. With his speed, that would, at the least, make him a solid lead off hitter.

If he can become a good base stealer, see lot's of pitches and post a good OBP, he might be a Ricky Henderson type player, although of course there was only one Ricky Henderson.

 

I had originally thought that he was going to be a middle of the order bat, based upon all of the hype. However, even if that doesn't transpire, he could be an important contributor, playing solid defense, as a middle infielder and effective switch hitting lead off hitter, with significant power, at least from the left side.

As is the case with so many players, I'd love to see him choke up, when hitting right handed, to see if he could at least be a good contact hitter, from that side of the plate. In any case, he has to cut down on the strike outs. With his speed, he would probably get a good share of infield hits.

 

In any case, it's way too early to be overly concerned, and a guy with his tools should be able to ultimately be productive.

Edited by Lillian

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QUOTE (dpd9189 @ Aug 21, 2017 -> 11:40 PM)
Baez is probably a better comp for Moncada. Struggled when called up in 2014 with massive K number and was so poor the next Spring Training that he played most of 2015 in AAA. Came into his own in 2016 and had a very good playoff run and is now really establishing himself. Cubs never gave up on him and were patient with him, Sox must do the same with Yoan and we might have to accept that just because he was the #1 prospect in MLB doesn't automatically mean he'll be an overnight superstar.

 

That isn't a bad comp in the sense that you have two really raw and extremely high ceiling kids. The tool sets are a bit different, but the distance between current and ceiling is very similar in that it was/is very wide.

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QUOTE (ron883 @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 12:53 AM)
All I'm saying is Yoan needs to step it up. You see rookies coming up and mashing now a days, and the #1 prospect in baseball is looking like trash in his second stint up here. Step it the hell up Moncada.

 

Hopefully this works as well for Moncada as it did Abreu.

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Relevant

 

Zach @Zachary_Canny @jimcallisMLB @JonathanMayo Albies, Devers, Moncada, Rosario, who would you rather have for the next decade.

 

 

Jim Callis‏Verified account @jimcallisMLB 24m24 minutes ago Can I have Vladimir Guerrero Jr. instead? In terms of offensive impact, I'd rank those guys: Moncada, Devers, Rosario, Albies. Like them all

 

 

 

 

 

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QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 08:26 AM)
Get it together people. You're talking about a 22 year old with 1100 AB's in pro baseball.

Yeah but that doesn't suit the instant gratification types. Some folks just don't have patience.

 

I don't know about you but despite the defensive growing pains I'm having a blast watching these guys. They're having fun and fun to watch. The losing sucks but I think ya know what I mean.

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QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 10:51 AM)
Yeah but that doesn't suit the instant gratification types. Some folks just don't have patience.

 

I don't know about you but despite the defensive growing pains I'm having a blast watching these guys. They're having fun and fun to watch. The losing sucks but I think ya know what I mean.

 

We have all watched Avi Garcia for years now. I don't know how this isn't the best example of some guys take a while, you could ever ask for.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 10:02 AM)
Relevant

 

Zach @Zachary_Canny @jimcallisMLB @JonathanMayo Albies, Devers, Moncada, Rosario, who would you rather have for the next decade.

 

 

Jim Callis‏Verified account @jimcallisMLB 24m24 minutes ago Can I have Vladimir Guerrero Jr. instead? In terms of offensive impact, I'd rank those guys: Moncada, Devers, Rosario, Albies. Like them all

 

Dude will probably end up in the OF or 1B anyway. I think this was more for 2B, SS, and 3B positions.

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Giolitto better look awesome tonight, or he's a bust as well. Did you see what he did last year?

 

Moncada, Fulmer, Collins....confirmed busts

 

Lopez, huge questions. ERA over 6.00 and hurt.....most likely bust

 

Giolitto, big game tonight will determine his status....very well could be a bust.

 

 

For people who wanted full rebuilds, the patience is amazingly short.

Edited by Dick Allen

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 11:32 AM)
Giolitto better look awesome tonight, or he's a bust as well. Did you see what he did last year?

 

Moncada, Fulmer, Collins....confirmed busts

 

Lopez, huge questions. ERA over 6.00 and hurt.....most likely bust

 

Giolitto, big game tonight will determine his status....very well could be a bust.

 

For people who wanted full rebuilds, the patience is amazingly short.

 

This. Thankfully, it's only a few people.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 11:32 AM)
For some of the people who wanted full rebuilds, the patience is amazingly short.

 

FTFY

 

but I agree, some fans are going to live and die with each PA and start and its going to drive them up a wall. Most prospects don't enter the league and set it on fire like Devers or Delmonico. Development isn't linear and these kids are going to need a lot of ABs and innings to make the adjustments, some will be bust, some will flame out but some will come from nowhere hopefully Delmonico and Leury and a few might actually hit their ceiling.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 09:32 AM)
Giolitto better look awesome tonight, or he's a bust as well. Did you see what he did last year?

 

Moncada, Fulmer, Collins....confirmed busts

 

Lopez, huge questions. ERA over 6.00 and hurt.....most likely bust

 

Giolitto, big game tonight will determine his status....very well could be a bust.

 

 

For people who wanted full rebuilds, the patience is amazingly short.

I would agree with you on all things, except Fulmer. He is a bust. His stuff is just not good. Don't know what happened, but he lost something. I wish he were hurt cause I'd at least have a reason for why his stuff become so non-existent. I've seen zero flashes of "special" out of him. I also think it tends to be easier to evaluate pitchers then hitters (as well).

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QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 01:09 PM)
I would agree with you on all things, except Fulmer. He is a bust. His stuff is just not good. Don't know what happened, but he lost something. I wish he were hurt cause I'd at least have a reason for why his stuff become so non-existent. I've seen zero flashes of "special" out of him. I also think it tends to be easier to evaluate pitchers then hitters (as well).

He's a bit off, but it isn't like he was throwing 89. I wouldn't write him off. He needs to find a way to throw strikes like Thornton and Kahnle. I don't know if it will happen, and am sure his head is probably pretty screwed up right now and probably overloaded.

 

His talent is still there IMO, but when you are always behind, its a double whammy because you have to lay it in there, and guys won't swing at stuff out of the zone. Just like a hitter, he's got to get himself better counts, and he needs to convince himself he can consistently throw strikes.

 

I really have no idea why they called him up. He was set up to fail.

Edited by Dick Allen

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Chuck Garfien‏Verified account @ChuckGarfien 3h3 hours ago

 

Aaron Judge in 2016: 84 AB 4 HR 10 RBI 9 BB 42 K .179

Yoan Moncada in 2017: 91 AB 3 HR 10 RBI 18 BB 41 K .176

 

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 11:15 AM)
He's a bit off, but it isn't like he was throwing 89. I wouldn't write him off. He needs to find a way to throw strikes like Thornton and Kahnle. I don't know if it will happen, and am sure his head is probably pretty screwed up right now and probably overloaded.

 

His talent is still there IMO, but when you are always behind, its a double whammy because you have to lay it in there, and guys won't swing at stuff out of the zone. Just like a hitter, he's got to get himself better counts, and he needs to convince himself he can consistently throw strikes.

 

I really have no idea why they called him up. He was set up to fail.

I agree with you on the set up to fail and that goes back to when we drafted him and rushed him through. Maybe it is all mental, but the stuff just doesn't look special. At best case, he can hone things in out of the bullpen, but I haven't seen any indication of the stuff that made him a top 10 pick. Not sure if there were mechanical changes that threw everything off or what, but even when I ignore the command, I just don't see sharp crisp pitches (even in flashes). And I like to think I'm relatively patient with prospects. Only reason I could see having him up right now is if the Sox think they have a solution to his woes and want him to work with Cooper and they need to let him start so he has more chances to repeat the tweaks, etc (i.e, more innings to practice) vs. letting him get that work in while pitching in the pen. Reality is the major league coaching staff is part of the development team for the foreseeable future during the rebuild.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 01:24 PM)
Chuck Garfien‏Verified account @ChuckGarfien 3h3 hours ago

 

Aaron Judge in 2016: 84 AB 4 HR 10 RBI 9 BB 42 K .179

Yoan Moncada in 2017: 91 AB 3 HR 10 RBI 18 BB 41 K .176

 

Aaron Judge post All-Star Break 2017: 124 AB .169/.329/.355

Yoan Moncada post All-Star Break 2017: 91 AB .176/.324/.330

 

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QUOTE (Tony @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 01:31 PM)
Jason: Bryon Buxton has been otherworldly since July. Has he arrived? If he maintains this type of offense and defense next season…where would that put him in the league for value compared to others? Top 50, 20, 10..?

1:55

Eric A Longenhagen: I really hope he has because it will give me someone to point to and say, “Remember what we said? Please be patient with Prospect X when he struggles at the big league level for a while.”

1:55

Eric A Longenhagen: Like literally I expect to do this with Moncada next year.

 

 

From the FanGraphs chat

 

Button got 3 hits on July 4, and has pretty much taken off since then. However, that's been all of 105 PAs. Moncada has 111 PAs this season.

 

If Moncada's SSS shouldn't matter, why should Buxton's? Dude's been garbage for two years- no reason to act as though a good month changes that.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 11:32 AM)
Giolitto better look awesome tonight, or he's a bust as well. Did you see what he did last year?

 

Moncada, Fulmer, Collins....confirmed busts

 

Lopez, huge questions. ERA over 6.00 and hurt.....most likely bust

 

Giolitto, big game tonight will determine his status....very well could be a bust.

 

 

For people who wanted full rebuilds, the patience is amazingly short.

 

 

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 01:09 PM)
I would agree with you on all things, except Fulmer. He is a bust. His stuff is just not good. Don't know what happened, but he lost something. I wish he were hurt cause I'd at least have a reason for why his stuff become so non-existent. I've seen zero flashes of "special" out of him. I also think it tends to be easier to evaluate pitchers then hitters (as well).

 

 

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 01:15 PM)
He's a bit off, but it isn't like he was throwing 89. I wouldn't write him off. He needs to find a way to throw strikes like Thornton and Kahnle. I don't know if it will happen, and am sure his head is probably pretty screwed up right now and probably overloaded.

 

His talent is still there IMO, but when you are always behind, its a double whammy because you have to lay it in there, and guys won't swing at stuff out of the zone. Just like a hitter, he's got to get himself better counts, and he needs to convince himself he can consistently throw strikes.

 

I really have no idea why they called him up. He was set up to fail.

Is there frustration as a fan about players coming up and struggling, sure. There are some guys(Fulmer) who don't pass the eye test. I just hope that Moncada doesn't turn into a Garcia/Moustakas situation where he figures it out when there is only one or two years of team control left. I'm willing to be patient, but when there is plenty of evidence that a guy doesnt have it, you have to draw the line somewhere. The one thing that gives me hope about Moncada is that you can't teach that eye. He has an excellent grasp of the zone.

Edited by Jack Parkman

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QUOTE (Tony @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 07:13 PM)
There is plenty that should "give you hope" about Moncada.

Ok, maybe not the best way to have communicated it. ;) I was referring to the slow start "gives you hope" probably wasn't the best choice of words. Maybe "gives me confidence that he will be a good, if not great MLB hitter" was a better choice of words.

Edited by Jack Parkman

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 22, 2017 -> 09:30 AM)
Hopefully this works as well for Moncada as it did Abreu.

 

Wellp!

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Two doubles tonight.

 

Off Kyle Gibson, but that grain of salt is countered by beating up Giles and Martes, too.

 

Hopefully he can feast on the AL Central 40 man rosters down the stretch and have a full head of steam/confidence going into 2018.

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