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Giolito named starter for Tuesday

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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 23, 2017 -> 03:02 PM)
I have no idea what the game plan was against the Twins. He threw very few curves when it seemed like he should throw more to see if he could get a feel for it. Could be the game plan was to use the fastball quite a bit. stay ahead of the hitters and keep walk totals down. All three HR's came on fastballs.

 

I think it was a very impressive start. game-wise and career-wise. But when you are used to Holmberg, Holland, Shields and Pelfrey just about anyone who goes 6 innings seems impressive.

 

Giolito became the first White Sox pitcher to not walk a batter and go six or more innings in his team debut since Orlando Hernandez on April 8, 2005 against the Twins per whitesox.com

 

I think when he threw those first couple of curves 2 feet in front of the plate, he decided it wasn't happening. Unfortunate but maybe he was just too jacked up

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 23, 2017 -> 03:05 PM)
I think when he threw those first couple of curves 2 feet in front of the plate, he decided it wasn't happening. Unfortunate but maybe he was just too jacked up

 

I think this is right, paired with really not wanting to fall behind hitters possibly. He may have decided it was more imporant to throw strikes with a fastball then risk falling behind trying to get the curve over.

 

His change was really working to me though, I was surprised he didn't go to that more in the 5-6th.

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 23, 2017 -> 01:05 PM)
I think when he threw those first couple of curves 2 feet in front of the plate, he decided it wasn't happening. Unfortunate but maybe he was just too jacked up

Maybe. But we have to remember they get warmup pitches before the inning starts so that seems like a good time to try to get the feel for it. Again I will plead ignorance because maybe he did do that . I have no idea how they approach warmup pitches before the start of an inning.

 

But again I was impressed . He's supposed to have a great curve and good changeup. I still think he can be a TOR starter with fastball (2 and 4 seam), curve and changeup. He's not even close to a finished product.

 

Even for those worried about his FB speed. (avg 93.2 for the game) commanding it is more important. Once he gets enough reps with all three pitches and can consistently repeat his mechanics he will be very good. But no one should expect that soon.

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 23, 2017 -> 03:44 PM)
Maybe. But we have to remember they get warmup pitches before the inning starts so that seems like a good time to try to get the feel for it. Again I will plead ignorance because maybe he did do that . I have no idea how they approach warmup pitches before the start of an inning.

 

But again I was impressed . He's supposed to have a great curve and good changeup. I still think he can be a TOR starter with fastball (2 and 4 seam), curve and changeup. He's not even close to a finished product.

 

Even for those worried about his FB speed. (avg 93.2 for the game) commanding it is more important. Once he gets enough reps with all three pitches and can consistently repeat his mechanics he will be very good. But no one should expect that soon.

This as with all pitchers is the key. When he got a little wild you could see him get under his FB and CH and it would sail high. The impressive part was that he recognized it and corrected it within at bats. I really like the fact that he was willing to go inside to LH and when he missed it was further inside. He's got it mentally. I don't think he is too far away.

Edited by ptatc

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Few thoughts on Lucas' start....

 

All these Gavin Floyd comps....to me, he looked like a young BMac on the bump.

 

For basically being a one-pitch pitcher last night, he had a pretty damn good outing against a relatively hot team. Those HRs are excusable, to an extent, because hitters knew there was nothing but a fastball coming and it was going to be in the zone. If he was behind 3-1, 2-1, 2-0, even 1-0, Twins were sitting dead red and treated it almost like a 3-0 green light.

 

With all the swings and misses and oppo field foul balls in the first few innings, tardy on 93-94MPH fastballs, I think it's safe to say he looks a few MPH faster to hitters than he's throwing. No wonder this guy was ranked so highly when his true velocity was 98MPH.

 

He worked very well up in the zone. His fearlessness up in the zone reminded me a lot of Q. Obviously he's not on Q's level yet, but he's not afraid to go up in the zone, nor throw inside to back hitters off a bit.

 

Narvaez can't be his catcher. There were a few of those curves that nipped the bottom corner of the zone...a little framing and he might have gained some confidence in that pitch. This could also be a matter of umpires being unfamiliar with his curve and the amount of movement involved. That pitch is going to come around with time and he'll look like a completely different pitcher.

 

I didn't see many changes or sliders. Seeing some of you guys say his change looked good, it must've been straight downward movement because I didn't see much sweep on any changes. If that's the case, maybe he needs to change his grip because with a straight downward tilt on his change his curveball and change both become less effective.

 

I think Lopez impressed me more his first start but he had his secondary pitches working so prob not a fair comp.

 

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QUOTE (Knuckles @ Aug 23, 2017 -> 09:59 PM)
Has it been established if he's sticking around for the rest of the season?

He's here for good, unless they end up limiting his innings. But he's a part of the MLB rotation like Lopez

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Yeah, that piece what comes to mind is I'm not gonna give up on him. Screams of a guy who figures out the one trick to keep his body right and become great.

 

I did not see the slider he spoke of but I know he was working on a cutter.

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This entirely the reason he was called up for September duty. They want him picthing and getting as many reps as possible to click in his mechanics.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 24, 2017 -> 09:08 AM)
Yeah, that piece what comes to mind is I'm not gonna give up on him. Screams of a guy who figures out the one trick to keep his body right and become great.

 

I did not see the slider he spoke of but I know he was working on a cutter.

 

He highlighted it on his twitter feed. Jeff Long thought it was a changeup b/c his slider typically sits in the 85-87, but that movement looked all slider to me. It was a really nice pitch.

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He strikes me as a dude that one night he'll have no hit stuff, and the next night he'll give up seven runs. Will be boom and bust in his starts

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http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/final-str...olito-richards/

 

Interesting write-up on Giolito

 

Over the last year or so, I haven’t been kind to Lucas Giolito. In four starts major league starts last season, he issued more walks (5.1 BB/9) than strikeouts (4.6 K/9). His fastball velocity dropped from the high to the low 90’s. He was a top ten prospect coming into the 2016 season but his stock dropped to the point where his 2017 prospect rankings were closer to 50th overall.

 

The Giolito’s shine has returned with him posting a 2.25 ERA and two wins in three starts. He recently mentioned a mental change causing the turnaround.

 

“It was more like a mental click this year,” said Giolito, one day after allowing one run over seven innings against the Rays to go with 10 strikeouts in his second straight victory. “Just like the past year-plus, year and a half, two years, I’ve been kind of like struggling with confidence and just thinking too much about my delivery. Trying to be too consistent to the point that I’m forcing things.

 

“I’ve been able to kind of just release some of the other stresses as far as thinking about my delivery, thinking about consistency or pitching deep into games or whatever it was. It was messing me up. Just kind of let go of all that. I focused on going out and competing and having fun and giving my best effort.

 

With the new mental approach, the changes must transfer to the mound.

 

The biggest item to remember about Giolito, he’s not the pitcher with a triple digit fastball and elite hammer which he was touted as having since being drafted in 2012. The fastball’s velocity is league average at 92 mph and the curve is most likely is four best pitch.

 

Here’s what he’s currently throwing:

 

Fastball (92 mph): Besides the velocity drop since being drafted, he’s lost an additional 1 mph from last season to this season. Even with the drop, his fastball is more effective with its swinging strike rate (SwStr%) doubling from 4.7% to 9.8%. He’s increased the spin on his fastball from 2064 rpm in 2016 to 2148 this season. The extra spin has kept the pitch from dropping 1.6 inches less while coming to the plate 1 mph slower. Usually, the slower a pitcher throws a pitch, the more it will drop as gravity works on it. With the extra spin, hitters may be swinging under the pitch.

Change (82 mph): The change is his new go-to breaking ball with a 24% SwStr% this year. Signs existed last year that this pitch may be his best with a 14% SwStr%, but he threw his curve ball almost twice as much. This season, the roles have changed with him going to his change more. Besides getting swings-and-misses, he throws it into the zone 54% of the time to get called strikes. I wonder if his mental change comes down to him finally accepting that his once highly touted curve ball won’t keep him in the majors.

Slider (84 mph): The slider has a league average 14% SwStr%. Besides generating some whiffs, all eight balls put in play against it this season have been ground balls. It is a completely acceptable third pitch.

Curve (79 mph): The curve hasn’t been good to him. Its swinging strike rate has dropped from 9% to 6% which is way below league average for a curve ball. I wonder if hitters aren’t fooled by it. Since it’s only in the strike zone 28% of the time, they can just let it pass (lowest Swing% of his pitches at 39%).

So right now he’s a rising fastball pitcher with a great change up, decent slider, and a show me curve. Even though they have different deliveries, his pitch mix and quality reminds me of Johnny Cueto, draftable in all league, but not elite.

 

Now, I do have a couple concerns. First, owners should not expect a sub-2.50 ERA with his ERA estimators hovering around 4.00. Also, his 1.8 HR/9 is a little discouraging. All the home runs are off his rising fastball and in home run happy U.S. Cellular, he could give a ton of dongs. Owners may need to manage his starts to miss the potential blowups.

 

Overall, I like the changes and see him as a potential sleeper going into next season. I do worry others may also see him the same way and his cost will sky rocket with the low ERA and prospect pedigree. Owners need to find a projection they can live with and not over pay for him.

 

Nice words from a self-proclaimed big Giolito doubter. The biggest thing here for me is the spin on his fastball. I know guys like Eno Sarris haven't been big on Giolito because of the lack of spin, but so far it seems like he's added spin to offset the velocity drop, and that's giving him a decent amount of swinging strikes on the pitch.

Edited by OmarComing25

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QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Sep 6, 2017 -> 03:16 PM)
http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/final-str...olito-richards/

 

Interesting write-up on Giolito

 

 

 

Nice words from a self-proclaimed big Giolito doubter. The biggest thing here for me is the spin on his fastball. I know guys like Eno Sarris haven't been big on Giolito because of the lack of spin, but so far it seems like he's added spin to offset the velocity drop, and that's giving him a decent amount of swinging strikes on the pitch.

 

That is a ton of "if" based on three starts.

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I love how a simple omitted letter can make a phrase so confusing:

 

"the curve is most likely is four best pitch."

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Klaw chat

 

http://meadowparty.com/blog/2017/09/07/klawchat-9717/

 

Sean 1:41 Obligatory Giolito question: do you see noticeable improvements to delivery/stuff relative to where he was a year ago?

Keith Law 1:41 Absolutely. This is a lot more like what he looked like in the Sally League when he raced up all our lists. And I thought his changeup on Sunday was as good as I've ever seen it. Still doesn't quite have the CB feel back, but he's compensating with some power sliders in CB counts.

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QUOTE (3GamesToLove @ Sep 7, 2017 -> 01:07 PM)
Law has remained relatively high on Giolito throughout, right?

Yeah, but I don't understand how he is saying he is looking like the guy who was skyrocketing the charts if his velocity is down and he doesn't have the same curveball.

 

I will say, when he was bouncing his curveball in a couple of starts ago, he was fine throwing it in between innings warming up, and it was falling off the table.

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QUOTE (turnin' two @ Sep 7, 2017 -> 02:02 PM)
Damn does that guy hate the Sox.

 

He's an asshole in general. It's no wonder that he wasn't able to work in a FO environment.

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QUOTE (turnin' two @ Sep 7, 2017 -> 01:02 PM)
Damn does that guy hate the Sox.

 

He'd look foolish if he said anything different during Giolito current run

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QUOTE (Superstar Lamar @ Sep 7, 2017 -> 03:16 PM)
He'd look foolish if he said anything different during Giolito current run

No the stats guys do it all the time. They'll find an obscure number and say that the results are not sustainable and he'll eventually regress to the mean.

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QUOTE (turnin' two @ Sep 7, 2017 -> 01:02 PM)
Damn does that guy hate the Sox.

 

It's hilarious everyone taking this quote seriously.

 

 

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QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 7, 2017 -> 03:12 PM)
It's hilarious everyone taking this quote seriously.

 

agreed, nothing "hater" about that post at all

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