Trade avi in the offseason?

[hi8is]

I laugh to myself when I see people still thinking Avi has power lol

Liar.

Edited September 25, 2017 by hi8is

[Lemon_44]

I'm not sold that Avi will generate enough lift to truly tap into his power potential. I hope I'm wrong but 30+ walks per year and less than 20HR's is just not impressive from the RF position.

 

It's kinda moot anyway because even if Avi is on the Sox next year he will be moved from RF when Eloy is ready. Avi can't stop that runaway freight train.

Eloy may turn out to be better and that would be great but he's 21 and in high A-AA. Avi was already playing at the MLB level at 21.

 

I'm amused that people are constantly searching for flaws in Avi's game. First, it was he'd never hit. Then he was too slow. Now it's he'll not hit for enough power or walk enough. Why not enjoy the Sox lone All Star representative as we watch him grow into a potential top level player? Had he not missed time, we'd be looking at a line of about .330/20-25 HR/ 90+ RBI. I don't know about anyone else but I'd take that from any player and be ecstatic.

[Lillian]

Avi has only played in 130 games, which is 80% of a complete season. If you project his numbers out, to a full season, he ends up with

30 doubles, 21 homers and 96 RBI's. For a guy hitting .330, 2ND in the entire Major Leagues, that's a lot of production to replace. Perhaps we just think that he should have more home runs, because we know how big and strong he is. If he had a physical stature something like your average corner outfielder, I think we'd be more than satisfied with that kind of year, for a 26 year old.

 

So if you trade him for an outfield prospect, how confident do you have to be that the player you acquire can match that production, in order to justify trading him? I understand that you gain more years of control, at a nominal amount, but money really is not going to be much of an issue, for J. R., given all of the young prospects, who are expected to fill the roster.

 

Then too, there are those intangibles, to which I alluded in a previous post. In addition to the afore mentioned veteran leadership, fan allegiance and camaraderie of this core group, which seems to be meshing with very good team chemistry, there is the Latin factor.

The next two big contributors, who are expected to join this young core, are Robert and Jimenez. That will add 2 more Latin players to a growing Latin key group of guys. It might be nice to have both Abreu and Avi there to guide, mentor and inspire the likes of Moncada, Jimenez and Robert. Add in Leury and Yolmar and their manager, Renteria and you have a very strong cultural bond. I love seeing how they interact. I already miss Melky, who was a big part of that. Yesterday's "reunion," at third base, with Moncada and Sanchez was fun.

 

At any rate, it just doesn't seem to be necessary to press the issue of trading Avi. That's the kind of move which could really come back to bite a GM. Why not let him play out his contract and consider making a qualified offer, when he reaches free agency? If he accepts, you get one more year, and if he opts to sign a long term contract, you make a fair offer, which he could accept, or he goes elsewhere and the Sox get another Draft pick.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Lillian

[iamshack]

Eloy may turn out to be better and that would be great but he's 21 and in high A-AA. Avi was already playing at the MLB level at 21.

 

I'm amused that people are constantly searching for flaws in Avi's game. First, it was he'd never hit. Then he was too slow. Now it's he'll not hit for enough power or walk enough. Why not enjoy the Sox lone All Star representative as we watch him grow into a potential top level player? Had he not missed time, we'd be looking at a line of about .330/20-25 HR/ 90+ RBI. I don't know about anyone else but I'd take that from any player and be ecstatic.

Also consider he was playing with a bad hand/wrist for several weeks where he hit like .050.

 

I suspect had he not struggled with that injury he'd have even crazier numbers.

[southsider2k5]

Well, TA plays a premium position that isn't flowing with an abundance talent available. Meanwhile Avi is a corner outfielder that does not draw enough walks, hit for enough power and plays a position overflowing with talent. There's no comparison to be made between TA and Avi.

 

Edit to add: TA also has five years of control left, Avi has two. Very different situations when looking a few years down the road.

 

With options, I think it is 7 years of control for Anderson.

[BlackSox13]

Can't believe I didn't notice his low walk totals. He's gonna be a VERY interesting guy to watch next year and with regard to his development of power - we'll see. This time last year everyone was clamoring to offload the dude. Now the big question is can he take the next step on his power tool?

 

I'll take that to the bank and be stoked.

 

The beauty really is it being moot.

 

If he takes the next step, awesome. Sign him to an extension at that point and pencil him in as an all-star corner and put him as a fixture in the middle of your lineup for a few years with other upcoming bats flanking him. If not, oh well - we've got options and money to spend.

 

Where the White Sox sit - it's a thing of beauty.

Right. Hope I don't come off as being nitpicking but those are really my only two concerns with Avi. If Avi's power continues trending upward next year, I doubt I will even notice or care about the walk totals. He made some major strides this year with his defense and batting average and an uptick in power so he deserves alot of credit for that. Also, noticed Avi is playing with a chip on his shoulder, which I like. I can see the focus and determination on his face as he steps into the box. He has been a different player this year with a new attitude. Hell, I can admit I've been harsh on the guy but I must give credit where it's due, there's no denying he's improved this year. If he can come out next year and hit .300+, play solid defense and get on a pace for 25-30 HR's, I would be all for the idea of extending him. Hopefully this season is a glimpse of what's to come.

[BlackSox13]

With options, I think it is 7 years of control for Anderson.

Thanks for pointing that out. I forgot about the options.

[GreenSox]

I think I said this probably on page 2, but yes he hasn't walked much, and his BABIP is high; and for that reason, I doubt the offers will be equivalent to his 2017 production....and ultimately pretty modest.

Thus, I think it's worth keeping him and waiting to move him.

[iamshack]

Avi has reached 550 PAs.

 

Joseph, oh Joooosseeppphhhh?

[SoxAce]

Avi has reached 550 PAs.

 

Joseph, oh Joooosseeppphhhh?

 

Ha.. wrong again JoeCoolman.

 

Enjoy that sandwich shack!

[Lillian]

Just as a reference point of information. Here are the League Leaders in Batting Average, so far this decade:

 

Year National League BA American League BA

2017 (NL AL) Charlie Blackmon* (COL) .328 Jose Altuve (HOU) .350

2016 (NL AL) DJ LeMahieu (COL) .348 Jose Altuve (HOU) .338

2015 (NL AL) Dee Gordon* (MIA) .333 Miguel Cabrera (DET) .338

2014 (NL AL) Justin Morneau* (COL) .319 Jose Altuve (HOU) .341

2013 (NL AL) Michael Cuddyer (COL) .331 Miguel Cabrera (DET) .348

2012 (NL AL) Buster Posey (SFG) .336 Miguel Cabrera (DET) .330

2011 (NL AL) Jose Reyes# (NYM) .337 Miguel Cabrera (DET) .344

2010 (NL AL) Carlos Gonzalez* (COL) .336 Josh Hamilton* (TEX) .359

2009 (NL AL) Hanley Ramirez (FLA) .342 Joe Mauer* (MIN) .365

2008 (NL AL) Chipper Jones# (ATL) .364 Joe Mauer* (MIN) .328

2007 (NL AL) Matt Holliday (COL) .340 Magglio Ordonez (DET) .363

2006 (NL AL) Freddy Sanchez (PIT) .344 Joe Mauer* (MIN) .347

2005 (NL AL) Derrek Lee (CHC) .335 Michael Young (TEX) .331

2004 (NL AL) Barry Bonds* (SFG) .362 Ichiro Suzuki* (SEA) .372

2003 (NL AL) Albert Pujols (STL) .359 Bill Mueller# (BOS) .326

2002 (NL AL) Barry Bonds* (SFG) .370 Manny Ramirez (BOS) .349

2001 (NL AL) Larry Walker* (COL) .350 Ichiro Suzuki* (SEA) .350

2000 (NL AL) Todd Helton* (COL) .372 Nomar Garciaparra (BOS) .372

Edited September 29, 2017 by Lillian

[oldsox]

8 out of 18 NL leaders are from Colorado Rockies.

[Kyyle23]

Century, not decade

[chitownsportsfan]

One of the most reviled players in the last decade puts together a good, not great year, and he turns into a franchise cornerstone. Man, fans are fickle as f***. He's even being "credited" for being hurt! Just imagine what his numbers would be like if he wasn't hurt! Come on folks. Avi has been injury prone, among other flaws. You don't credit a guy with a hypothetical.

 

Regress his BABIP down to a high but reasonable 340 next year (no player can sustain a 390 BABIP, not even Mike Trout) and his slash line goes to around 280/330/460. Decent production but nothing special from a mediocre corner OF.

 

Avi has improved; I don't want to deny him that. What I do want to deny is that he's on a superstar track. Or even a star track. He had one good year. He's had 4 bad years. His timeline for getting expensive does not align with the rebuild timeline. Look at the whole picture and make a decision based on all the info, not just "he was an all star!".

[chitownsportsfan]

Century, not decade

 

lol, what a time to be alive.

[southsider2k5]

While Avi improved across the board, the jump that really stands out is what he did against LHP this season.

 

His career numbers are .309 .363 .455 .818. This year he put up .427 .457 .580 1.037.

 

The other thing is that while everyone was thinking his hot start was a fluke, he has actually gotten better as the season has gone on, and not worse. 1st half .310 .353 .497 .850, 2nd half .360 .416 .526 .942.

 

I have no idea how sustainable anything is, but I found those two things really interesting.

 

 

[Dam8610]

While Avi improved across the board, the jump that really stands out is what he did against LHP this season.

 

His career numbers are .309 .363 .455 .818. This year he put up .427 .457 .580 1.037.

 

The other thing is that while everyone was thinking his hot start was a fluke, he has actually gotten better as the season has gone on, and not worse. 1st half .310 .353 .497 .850, 2nd half .360 .416 .526 .942.

 

I have no idea how sustainable anything is, but I found those two things really interesting.

 

I think the uptick in production can be explained by a 9.4% BB rate and 18% K rate in the 2nd half. If he can maintain those numbers, 4 WAR RF is a legitimate possibility for him moving forward.

[hi8is]

I think the uptick in production can be explained by a 9.4% BB rate and 18% K rate in the 2nd half. If he can maintain those numbers, 4 WAR RF is a legitimate possibility for him moving forward.

Wow, had no idea his second half saw such a great strike out percentage! Atta boy Avi! 🤘🏻

[Lillian]

It was interesting to hear Hawk's take on Avi, in last night's broadcast, with "Whimpy". For what it's worth, and I know for some of you, not much, he was very positive.

He said "You ain't seen nothin' yet" and that "he is just beginning to mature into the kind of player that he can be". He even stated that Avi was the

"Closest thing to a legitimate 5 tool player, we've ever had". The craziest comment was that he still stands by his initial assessment, that he believes "Avi will ultimately become the greatest player in White Sox history!!" It was really "over the top". It's pretty clear that Hawk loves him.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Lillian

[oldsox]

It was interesting to hear Hawk's take on Avi, in last night's broadcast, with "Whimpy". For what it's worth, and I know for some of you, not much, he was very positive.

He said "You ain't seen nothin' yet" and that "he is just beginning to mature into the kind of player that he can be". He even stated that Avi was the

"Closest thing to a legitimate 5 tool player, we've ever had". The craziest comment was that he still stands by his initial assessment, that he believes "Avi will ultimately become the greatest player in White Sox history!!" It was really "over the top". It's pretty clear that Hawk loves him.

I wish I had heard that broadcast. Of course, White Sox have never had a five tooler. Frank was too slow and could not throw. Abreu is closer, in some respects. Both Avi and Abreu have two years left of control, I believe. Hahn has a couple of big decisions to make. Interesting.

Edited September 30, 2017 by oldsox

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

It was interesting to hear Hawk's take on Avi, in last night's broadcast, with "Whimpy". For what it's worth, and I know for some of you, not much, he was very positive.

He said "You ain't seen nothin' yet" and that "he is just beginning to mature into the kind of player that he can be". He even stated that Avi was the

"Closest thing to a legitimate 5 tool player, we've ever had". The craziest comment was that he still stands by his initial assessment, that he believes "Avi will ultimately become the greatest player in White Sox history!!" It was really "over the top". It's pretty clear that Hawk loves him.

I think he said that the Avi trade may be the best in Sox history . Even Hawk isn't silly enough to suggest Avi will be better than Big Hurt.

[Lillian]

I think he said that the Avi trade may be the best in Sox history . Even Hawk isn't silly enough to suggest Avi will be better than Big Hurt.

 

Yes, you're right. That is what he said. Sorry, I misspoke.

Nevertheless, that is quite a statement.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Lillian

[Jose Abreu]

Barring a pinch hit appearance, Garcia's final numbers are:

 

136 games, 561 PAs, 518 ABs, 75 R, 171 H, 27 2B, 5 3B, 18 HR, 80 RBI, 5 SB, 33 BB, 111 SO, .330/.380/.506/.886, 137 OPS+, 9 HBP, 1 ASG, and the potential of a silver slugger award (Trout/Judge are very likely, and the other is probably between Avi/Springer/Davis).

[sin city sox fan]

Barring a pinch hit appearance, Garcia's final numbers are:

 

136 games, 561 PAs, 518 ABs, 75 R, 171 H, 27 2B, 5 3B, 18 HR, 80 RBI, 5 SB, 33 BB, 111 SO, .330/.380/.506/.886, 137 OPS+, 9 HBP, 1 ASG, and the potential of a silver slugger award (Trout/Judge are very likely, and the other is probably between Avi/Springer/Davis).

 

He should finish top 10 in MVP voting as well.

[soxforlife05]

I think he said that the Avi trade may be the best in Sox history . Even Hawk isn't silly enough to suggest Avi will be better than Big Hurt.

 

He did say Fernando Rodney would end up in the hall of fame :shrug

Edited October 1, 2017 by soxforlife05