2017-2018 MLB player movement rumors and reports

[LittleHurt05]

It's not just that - the lack of a hard salary cap is hurting now too. You have 2 behemoth teams, the Yankees and the Dodgers, that are well built for about $200 million, and one of them is going to add Bryce Harper next offseason to a team that already was really good. You then have a handful of other well built teams, but basically you have right now 4 behemoth teams, 2 of them with huge money spent. If your team wins 88 games next year, do you really think you can outgun the Dodgers in a 7 game series and the Indians in the next one? I don't.

 

Teams know that if they are stuck in the middle, that isn't good enough right now. They need to be exceptional, and they can't get there with the talent available.

 

Those two big market teams have exactly one World Series appearance this decade. We had Kansas City one run away from back to back titles, then Cleveland was that close to winning a title, so it's not like the big market teams are the only ones winning. Houston is a big market, but never near the largest payroll, and they just beat both of those unstoppable large morket forces.

 

And it's not like the other owners don't have any money to spend, they just choose not to. The owner of the Pirates is a billionaire but god forbid he spends some money to win more baseball games. Each owner just got a $50 million check from that Disney Tech sale but I doubt any of that goes to their payroll.

 

[caulfield12]

Maybe just five years of control...and shorten the truly cheap years by one?

 

If you go to 4 years to true free agency, the fans of young players/prospects will have a harder time attaching themselves (and their optimism/hope) to an extended rebuild.

[caulfield12]

Those two big market teams have exactly one World Series appearance this decade. We had Kansas City one run away from back to back titles, then Cleveland was that close to winning a title, so it's not like the big market teams are the only ones winning. Houston is a big market, but never near the largest payroll, and they just beat both of those unstoppable large morket forces.

 

And it's not like the other owners don't have any money to spend, they just choose not to. The owner of the Pirates is a billionaire but god forbid he spends some money to win more baseball games. Each owner just got a $50 million check from that Disney Tech sale but I doubt any of that goes to their payroll.

 

Same case with Pohlad and the Twins...and the White Sox until 2006, with the exception of the Belle deal.

 

It’s actually not so dissimilar from political arguments about tax cut/government subsidy effects? Do they go to the workers or owners? The Marlins are the prime example right now, and they managed two World Series wins as well.

 

The Yankees have only won it all once since that 90’s dynasty. A’s and Twins both made runs...Twins might be close to doing it again.

[wrathofhahn]

Those two big market teams have exactly one World Series appearance this decade. We had Kansas City one run away from back to back titles, then Cleveland was that close to winning a title, so it's not like the big market teams are the only ones winning. Houston is a big market, but never near the largest payroll, and they just beat both of those unstoppable large morket forces.

 

And it's not like the other owners don't have any money to spend, they just choose not to. The owner of the Pirates is a billionaire but god forbid he spends some money to win more baseball games. Each owner just got a $50 million check from that Disney Tech sale but I doubt any of that goes to their payroll.

 

The problem isn't an unwillingness to spend it's the recognization that spending does not equal wins.

 

For example Stanton he was supposedly one of if not the best players in baseball. Marlins didn't even make the playoffs.

 

The MLB isn't basketball where you can just sign Lebron and sim to the playoffs. You have to actually have a solid foundation behind Stanton and the problem is you can't do it in a feasible way via FA.

 

Number one starters get paid 30 million. Number 2 get around 20. Number 3 get in the 15 million range. Number 4 10-12. Number 5 get around 5-8 million.

 

Closers the top FA ones get paid around 15-18 million. Setup guys around ten million. Decent middle relievers get around 4-7 million.

 

Thats well over 100 million before getting into position players. Owners are tired of setting money on fire and frankly I don't blame them and yes part of the issue is the smart teams have realized that the path to success is through filling the team with controllable talent then signing the top guys but raising the price on controllable talent is not the solution and will only cause FA prices to drop further as the top teams will have less money to spend.

 

What we are seeing is a market correction. Once you take a look at FA and see a market where you could build a team via free agency then you'll start to see more teams engaged. Boras has done a good job of inflating prices for teams.

[LittleHurt05]

The problem isn't an unwillingness to spend it's the recognization that spending does not equal wins.

 

For example Stanton he was supposedly one of if not the best players in baseball. Marlins didn't even make the playoffs.

 

The MLB isn't basketball where you can just sign Lebron and sim to the playoffs. You have to actually have a solid foundation behind Stanton and the problem is you can't do it in a feasible way via FA.

 

Number one starters get paid 30 million. Number 2 get around 20. Number 3 get in the 15 million range. Number 4 10-12. Number 5 get around 5-8 million.

 

Closers the top FA ones get paid around 15-18 million. Setup guys around ten million. Decent middle relievers get around 4-7 million.

 

Thats well over 100 million before getting into position players. Owners are tired of setting money on fire and frankly I don't blame them and yes part of the issue is the smart teams have realized that the path to success is through filling the team with controllable talent then signing the top guys but raising the price on controllable talent is not the solution and will only cause FA prices to drop further as the top teams will have less money to spend.

 

What we are seeing is a market correction. Once you take a look at FA and see a market where you could build a team via free agency then you'll start to see more teams engaged. Boras has done a good job of inflating prices for teams.

 

So basically the owners are pocketing more money and players are earning less and less. That has all the making of another labor stoppage.

[Jack Parkman]

The players wouldn't want a floor, because a floor comes with a ceiling. But a ceiling would be good for the game. Pittsburgh and KC each had short runs after about 25-30 years of totally sucking, now they are done. The only difference is in the playoffs, KC made 2 improbable comebacks and played in 2 WS and won 1, and the Pirates just lost all the time in the postseason. The current model isn't sustainable for most of the league.

 

By accepting the current CBA, with the punitive penalties for exceeding the luxury tax, they already have agreed to a "soft cap" of sorts, so the ceiling has already been given to the owners by the players. Right now, there is a ceiling but no floor which is horrible for the players. If there is a ceiling, there MUST be a floor otherwise you see what is happening this offseason. Since they have already given the ceiling, they might as well go to the cap and floor model because otherwise there is no help. Baseball also should use a rule similar to the "Bird rule" in the NBA where if you have drafted or internationally signed a player, they are exempt from the cap if you re-sign that player. You only get to use it once though, and it is considered in use until said player's contract expires.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[Chisoxfn]

Those two big market teams have exactly one World Series appearance this decade. We had Kansas City one run away from back to back titles, then Cleveland was that close to winning a title, so it's not like the big market teams are the only ones winning. Houston is a big market, but never near the largest payroll, and they just beat both of those unstoppable large morket forces.

 

And it's not like the other owners don't have any money to spend, they just choose not to. The owner of the Pirates is a billionaire but god forbid he spends some money to win more baseball games. Each owner just got a $50 million check from that Disney Tech sale but I doubt any of that goes to their payroll.

Yes, small market teams can make a run and win, but it is very difficult for them to have a sustained long-term model of winning vs. the major market teams and that is a problem. It means you'll have a few good years from a KC or Pittsburgh or whomever, but long-term they will stink most of their tenure and because of that, fan bases in those types of markets will dwindle. It is important to me that baseball has a path to speed up the game and drive competitiveness in mid-markets. Look at the NBA, exciting game and structured to help mid-market teams. Yes, there are some big markets who have advantages, but the NBA has done a lot to ensure some balance (helps that stars can make massive endorsement deals in Cleveland / OKC and other places away from the major market).

[ptatc]

It's not just that - the lack of a hard salary cap is hurting now too. You have 2 behemoth teams, the Yankees and the Dodgers, that are well built for about $200 million, and one of them is going to add Bryce Harper next offseason to a team that already was really good. You then have a handful of other well built teams, but basically you have right now 4 behemoth teams, 2 of them with huge money spent. If your team wins 88 games next year, do you really think you can outgun the Dodgers in a 7 game series and the Indians in the next one? I don't.

 

Teams know that if they are stuck in the middle, that isn't good enough right now. They need to be exceptional, and they can't get there with the talent available.

The issue is that the Union really doesn't care about teams being competitive only that salaries continue to increase. I agrre that a hard salary cap and floor would benefit them more in the long term.

[ptatc]

So basically the owners are pocketing more money and players are earning less and less. That has all the making of another labor stoppage.

Players salaries have increased at a dramatic rate. The players are not earning less.

[Dam8610]

Players salaries have increased at a dramatic rate. The players are not earning less.

 

When expressed as a percentage of what the total profit is, yes, they are.

[ChiSox59]

When expressed as a percentage of what the total profit is, yes, they are.

 

Baseball players make an exorbitant amount of money. I don't feel bad for them, and no one else should either.

[southsider2k5]

Ben Badler‏ @BenBadler 16m16 minutes ago The Yankees and Marlins had private workouts for CF Julio Pablo Martinez. Here's the latest on Martinez: http://bit.ly/2BcFcMp

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Jerry Crasnick‏Verified account @jcrasnick 50m50 minutes ago Lorenzo Cain traveled to Los Angeles recently to meet with multiple clubs. Meetings were hosted by his agents at All Bases Covered. Uncertain which clubs were there, but #Brewers, #Cubs, #Rangers, #SFGiants and #Jays have been mentioned in speculation as potential Cain suitors.

 

 

[wrathofhahn]

Ben Badler‏ @BenBadler 16m16 minutes ago The Yankees and Marlins had private workouts for CF Julio Pablo Martinez. Here's the latest on Martinez: http://bit.ly/2BcFcMp

 

We should get in on the action though the OF situation is pretty crowded one of the top guys will probably bust just going off odds.

[southsider2k5]

We should get in on the action though the OF situation is pretty crowded one of the top guys will probably bust just going off odds.

 

We can only offer $300k.

[LittleHurt05]

Baseball players make an exorbitant amount of money. I don't feel bad for them, and no one else should either.

 

Yet everyone seems to feel bad for the owners having to spend money, even though they are all 10x richer than the players.

[Dam8610]

Baseball players make an exorbitant amount of money. I don't feel bad for them, and no one else should either.

 

Why do we begrudge the worker gains, but not the owner?

[Harry Chappas]

Owners are not obligated to spend anything thus if you are not going to compete why spend it?

 

When you are guaranteed a revenue stream unrelated to winning, you do not care about winning.

 

The Marlins can take their media and revenue sharing and pocket them all because the cubs, red sox and yankees roll in the dough for them.

[ChiSox59]

Yet everyone seems to feel bad for the owners having to spend money, even though they are all 10x richer than the players.

 

I don't feel bad for the owners. But MLB players makes loads of money. Their salaries have increased significantly with time, and I am sure will continue to increase.

 

Just because the operating business is making money more money doesn't necessarily mean that the player's salaries need to increase by the same amount. It's not like these guys are making minimum wage and being worked against their will...

[GenericUserName]

We can only offer $300k.

 

Yeah, he is out of our price range.

[ptatc]

When expressed as a percentage of what the total profit is, yes, they are.

That could be true but that's not what a salary is. The comment was that the salary is less and less. The salaries are not less.

 

I had the same discussion in the financial section. I can't believe how many people think that employees should make as much as the owners. It boggles my mind.

 

Also, the players have fared much better than owners since the first CBA. Here is some info from this article:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhause...8/#5e48ba273e48

 

It marked the latest coup for sports’ most powerful union where the average salary has jumped 20,700% (2,832% after inflation) since players signed the first collective bargaining agreement (CBA) in pro sports in 1968.

 

Baseball owners have also experienced dramatic gains during that time however they have not kept up with the growth in salaries. The values are up 11,300% on average, or roughly half the increase in salaries.

[ptatc]

Yet everyone seems to feel bad for the owners having to spend money, even though they are all 10x richer than the players.

Yes. they are the owners not the employees. They spent the money to buy the team and assume all of the risk if the team doesn't do well or if the team loses money. The players have zero risk. The will make their money regardless of what happens with the team. They can sign a 100 million dollar contract, get hurt and never play again and still collect all their money.

[ptatc]

Why do we begrudge the worker gains, but not the owner?

I don't think anyone begrudges worker gains. It's just a fact that their salary is so much more than the average person that people have money envy.

 

If you think people don't begrudge the owners money you haven't read the posts on here about JR being a billionaire and too cheap. Or the comments about the McCaskey's being too cheap. This town dislikes most owners because they are rich and "cheap."

[Balta1701]

That could be true but that's not what a salary is. The comment was that the salary is less and less. The salaries are not less.

 

I had the same discussion in the financial section. I can't believe how many people think that employees should make as much as the owners. It boggles my mind.

 

Also, the players have fared much better than owners since the first CBA. Here is some info from this article:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhause...8/#5e48ba273e48

 

It marked the latest coup for sports’ most powerful union where the average salary has jumped 20,700% (2,832% after inflation) since players signed the first collective bargaining agreement (CBA) in pro sports in 1968.

 

Baseball owners have also experienced dramatic gains during that time however they have not kept up with the growth in salaries. The values are up 11,300% on average, or roughly half the increase in salaries.

The average salary has only jumped 28 times after inflation since they were artificially held down in the 60s? I'm stunned it's that little.

 

And "Since the first CBA" is a pretty terrible standard to use for this - the players salaries jumped by factors of 10 in 1967-1982, and again by factor of 10 from 1982-2000, then only by a factor of 4 over the last 17 years. Either revenue growth has dramatically slowed or the share going to the players has decreased dramatically.

[wrathofhahn]

We can only offer $300k.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/01/late...o-martinez.html

 

If Martinez does indeed become eligible to sign before June 15th, he’ll have the open of signing either in the current or the ensuing period. That will help open up his options a bit.