Gun Violence in America

[StrangeSox]

6 minutes ago, Whitesoxin2019 said:

The point is you take the guns away and in 10 years most of you will be calling for knives. It’s a trickle down effect. I’d say we need more regulation on loading up kids with drugs at early ages.

Nah that's a pretty dumb argument.

 

to lay it out more explicitly: not everything is an endless slippery slope, of course. "If you ban X, then you'll ban Y and Z and everything else!" doesn't actually logically follow. We don't see the dozens of countries with tighter gun laws calling for mass knife bans or car bans or whatever other deflection people obsessed with guns toss out in response to the latest mass shooting. What we do see are far fewer deaths because, completely unsurprisingly, it's a lot harder to kill someone with a knife and it's much, much harder to kill scores of people at once with one. 

Edited May 18, 2018 by StrangeSox

[RockRaines]

I'm a gun owner. I'm not the person who shouldnt own a gun.  But there are people who shouldnt, and there are guns that shouldnt be owned by people without training.  Thats low hanging fruit for sensible gun control.

[Dick Allen]

3 minutes ago, Whitesoxin2019 said:

Whatever Chicago is doing is clearly not working. So I would suggest the opposite approach 

First off, state lines don't stop guns. Secondly, Trump's talking point about Chicago having the country's toughest gun laws? Would you believe, fake news?

 

Chicago itself has some tough laws — there is an assault-weapons ban in Cook County, for example. But it's not true that Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the country. At one point, it did have much tougher laws — it had banned handguns in the city limits, but a 2008 Supreme Court ruling declared that ban unconstitutional, and a 2010 ruling reaffirmed that. The city also had had a gun registry program since 1968, but ended it in 2013 when the state passed a law allowing the concealed carry of weapons.

[RockRaines]

Just now, Whitesoxin2019 said:

Pretty sure you can just move to Mexico for that.

Your copy/pastes were better.

[RockRaines]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

First off, state lines don't stop guns. Secondly, Trump's talking point about Chicago having the country's toughest gun laws? Would you believe, fake news?

 

Chicago itself has some tough laws — there is an assault-weapons ban in Cook County, for example. But it's not true that Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the country. At one point, it did have much tougher laws — it had banned handguns in the city limits, but a 2008 Supreme Court ruling declared that ban unconstitutional, and a 2010 ruling reaffirmed that. The city also had had a gun registry program since 1968, but ended it in 2013 when the state passed a law allowing the concealed carry of weapons.

I can legally bring my gun into Chicago with no issue.  I just cant purchase one directly in the limits. But I can a block away!!

[Whitesoxin2019]

Just now, Tony said:

Go back to 4chan

 

2 minutes ago, Tony said:

Go back to 4chan

I’ve been here longer than you tonyho 

[Whitesoxin2019]

2 minutes ago, RockRaines said:

I'm a gun owner. I'm not the person who shouldnt own a gun.  But there are people who shouldnt, and there are guns that shouldnt be owned by people without training.  Thats low hanging fruit for sensible gun control.

I can’t argue with that. Seems reasonable. 

[LittleHurt05]

7 minutes ago, Whitesoxin2019 said:

Whatever Chicago is doing is clearly not working. So I would suggest the opposite approach 

To be fair, Chicago isn't really doing anything about it.  

[RockRaines]

Just now, LittleHurt05 said:

To be fair, Chicago isn't really doing anything about it.  

Literally there just isnt a store in city limits.  Might as well be a Meijer ban

[Whitesoxin2019]

1 minute ago, Tony said:

Oh yeah, what was your username before?

I’m not doxxing myself. Too much violence on the left. So much has changed in the last 10 years that one side has to literally fear for their safety. Even amongst a message board of once friends that would have tailgate meets, play bean bag toss, enjoy some cold ones before watching PK, Maggs,Carlos Lee and co proceed to hit so many homeruns. Life was so much more simple back then. 

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, Whitesoxin2019 said:

I’m not doxxing myself. Too much violence on the left. So much has changed in the last 10 years that one side has to literally fear for their safety. Even amongst a message board of once friends that would have tailgate meets, play bean bag toss, enjoy some cold ones before watching PK, Maggs,Carlos Lee and co proceed to hit so many homeruns. Life was so much more simple back then. 

LMAO.

 

[BigSqwert]

10 minutes ago, Tony said:

Oh yeah, what was your username before?

AaronSchlossbergSoxFan74

[StrangeSox]

7 minutes ago, Whitesoxin2019 said:

I’m not doxxing myself. Too much violence on the left. So much has changed in the last 10 years that one side has to literally fear for their safety. Even amongst a message board of once friends that would have tailgate meets, play bean bag toss, enjoy some cold ones before watching PK, Maggs,Carlos Lee and co proceed to hit so many homeruns. Life was so much more simple back then. 

this is a pretty silly derail/detachment from reality, but right-wing extremist violence has been a growing problem in this country for years now. there isn't really anything at all comparable from the left in scope or scale.

 

Note that this study was done in early 2017, before the alt-right white supremacists really ramped up and peaked with their murder at Charlottesville in August.

https://www.adl.org/education/resources/reports/dark-constant-rage-25-years-of-right-wing-terrorism-in-united-states

[Jenksismyhero]

19 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

“It’s the mental illness, not the guns!”

 

*removes law that makes it difficult for people with mental illness to get guns*

I still think it's funny that the FOID application in Illinois asks you if you have a mental illness. Like yep, that question will stop someone. "Damn, I gotta tell the truth on this thing!"

 

[Dick Allen]

3 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Democratic areas of the country are for more violent than Republican areas of the country despite your argument of an individual instance of a goofball running over someone in a mob of people attacking his car.

Then why won't Republicans do anything about it? Besides keeping it violent by trying to keep the poor and disadvantaged desperate? 

Edited May 18, 2018 by Dick Allen

[StrangeSox]

5 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Democratic areas of the country are for more violent than Republican areas of the country despite your argument of an individual instance of a goofball running over someone in a mob of people attacking his car.

"Areas" don't shoot people. It's specifically looking at ideologically driven violence and murder, which is what our 4chan friend above is definitely very seriously and legitimately concerned about. A person in blood red rural Texas who shoots his wife over an affair wouldn't be counted as "right wing violence" any more than a robbery-gone-bad in Chicago would be counted as left-wing violence. Your post isn't really responsive, at all, to the topic at hand.

Good job continuing to downplay the white supremacist rally at Charlottesville and their murder of the protester, though. That "goofball" was at the white supremacist rally with a bunch of other white supremacists waving Nazi flags, shouting Nazi slogans and arguing for a white ethnostate among other abhorrent things.

 

eta: actually Charlottesville itself is a really great example of why your argument makes no sense! Being the home of UVA, it's a very blue/Democratic area, and yet that specific story is a story of right-wing extremist violence.

Edited May 18, 2018 by StrangeSox

[Soxbadger]

2 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Democratic areas of the country are for more violent than Republican areas of the country despite your argument of an individual instance of a goofball running over someone in a mob of people attacking his car.

 

Depends on how you definite "area". By state its not true.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/200445/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-us-states/

 

[RockRaines]

4 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Democratic areas of the country are for more violent than Republican areas of the country despite your argument of an individual instance of a goofball running over someone in a mob of people attacking his car.

You have stats to back that up?  I see 8 of the top ten most violent states as red based on what i saw. 

[StrangeSox]

who cares about what level of granularity he's talking about, it's completely irrelevant to the discussion of ideologically driven violence.

 

edit: which is itself a tangent from the main topic, which is yet another mass shooting in this country that we don't know the motivation for

Edited May 18, 2018 by StrangeSox

[Kyyle23]

9 minutes ago, Jenksismyhero said:

I still think it's funny that the FOID application in Illinois asks you if you have a mental illness. Like yep, that question will stop someone. "Damn, I gotta tell the truth on this thing!"

 

Lol right, gun ownership should rest on the honor system upheld by truthful people with mental illness

[RockRaines]

21 minutes ago, Whitesoxin2019 said:

I’m not doxxing myself. Too much violence on the left. So much has changed in the last 10 years that one side has to literally fear for their safety. Even amongst a message board of once friends that would have tailgate meets, play bean bag toss, enjoy some cold ones before watching PK, Maggs,Carlos Lee and co proceed to hit so many homeruns. Life was so much more simple back then. 

You are correct in one sense. Domestic terrorism is on the rise and an overwhelming majority of those are far right crazies. We should all be afraid. 

But again. Share with me the conspiracy theory perspective on violence. It’s super entertaining. 

Edited May 18, 2018 by RockRaines

[knightni]

35 minutes ago, Whitesoxin2019 said:

The point is you take the guns away and in 10 years most of you will be calling for knives. It’s a trickle down effect. I’d say we need more regulation on loading up kids with drugs at early ages.

RUN! He's got a board with a NAIL in it!

[ptatc]

29 minutes ago, Tony said:

BUT THE KNIVES!!!!1111

I honestly doesn’t even make sense that is now the talking point for the pro-gun crowd, but here we are. 

 

To be fair, there is precedent with things like seat belts. When  mandatory seat belts in vehicles was being discussed, the group opposing them said "next hing you know they will fine us for not wearing them." Of course, the pro seat belt group insisted this would never happen.

Also you can't compare the US to other countries when you say that "not everything is a slippery slope" because it didn't happen elsewhere. The politics and legal systems are unique here and it's an "apples and oranges" comparison.

[BigHurt3515]

50 minutes ago, GoSox05 said:

Why do you think this doesn't happen in other countries?

Canada doesn't have this problem.  Their country is so similar to ours, that if I dropped someone in the middle of it, it would take them some time to figure out that they left America.  Yet, no mass shootings.

I don't know much about other countries so I can't really speak to that. I don't know their gun laws or how many mentally ill people they have or how their schools are set up. All I have heard about Canada is how nice the people are there. So could it be how people are raised in each country? How much bulling there is? How many guns are illegally & legally being sold in each country? If there is a lot of security at their schools?

It could be a number of things but it was way more complicated than ban guns or make security better in schools. It is how to get illegal guns off the streets, how to make sure guns are being sold to people who pass psych evals & background checks. But what about the kids who steal guns from their parents & those parents not having any clue their kid is having issues? There are so many different ways to obtain weapons to hurt other people it is impossible to stop this stuff from happening.

You can have metal detectors in schools but what about the parking lot when kids are arriving to school or on the bus that has 50+ kids on it? Bad people will always find a way.

[Jenksismyhero]

So, one question I have is that we've had a bunch of these school shootings now, but are schools themselves doing anything to change? Seems like in a lot of these cases the gunman is a student and is able to just stroll into school and start shooting. Where's the discussion at school board meetings about what districts are doing to change school protocol? 

Are we installing locking mechanisms on doors? Are we closing up access points so that entrances/exits are focused during certain hours? Obviously the government has failed us in a lot of ways, but even if we get a lot of the changes people want, there is still going to be the otherwise normal/sane person who flips and has access to his stockpile, so it still makes sense to implement some common sense stuff at schools.