BigSqwert Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Where is the accountability for this vile man's words? Look at the dates of those two tweets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 (edited) It's a stretch to connect the awful things Trump tweets to this specific shooting. The dude was deranged and had a vendetta against that paper for years. edit: and because I have to, lest I be labeled a "supporter," that is NOT an excuse/justification/support for Trump saying those things. Edited June 29, 2018 by Jenksismyhero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinilaw08 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 17 minutes ago, Jenksismyhero said: It's a stretch to connect the awful things Trump tweets to this specific shooting. The dude was deranged and had a vendetta against that paper for years. edit: and because I have to, lest I be labeled a "supporter," that is NOT an excuse/justification/support for Trump saying those things. Jenks, this is the stuff that I'm talking about in the other thread though. We can't normalize this type of authoritarian behavior from the President of the United States. There needs to be forceful condemnation of these types of words from both sides of the aisle. I agree with you that those words probably didn't cause this specific shooting, but they are still completely and utterly unacceptable. And until his own party actually calls him out on this, nothing is going to change. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 16 minutes ago, illinilaw08 said: Jenks, this is the stuff that I'm talking about in the other thread though. We can't normalize this type of authoritarian behavior from the President of the United States. There needs to be forceful condemnation of these types of words from both sides of the aisle. I agree with you that those words probably didn't cause this specific shooting, but they are still completely and utterly unacceptable. And until his own party actually calls him out on this, nothing is going to change. We can wait until he inspires one, if there's one thing we have in excess it's mass shootings. For now, how about we deal with the fact that so many responsible gun owners also have a domestic abuse history, and there is a disturbing agreement between the "responsible gun owner, domestic abuse, mass shooting" triad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 1 hour ago, greg775 said: I care about Puerto Rico. I care about anybody suffering whether you believe it or not. There's this perception Greg needs to post on every topic equally. I still am hesitant to start threads cause people get mad and say it should not be a new thread. I had buddies drive boats down to Houston when the hurricane flooded all the streets and supported them. I care about the suffering of families at the border. I care about the people of Puerto Rico. I can't imagine being without power for so long and water. I don't know how to answer the charge of "glossing over" Puerto Rico. I think it's impossible to post equally on all topics that happen. I'm also depressed over the fires when they hit and the volcanic lava ruining homes and endangering lives in Hawaii. If you pay me a salary I'll sit here and comment equally on everything that happens in the US and all over the world. How about you just stop and think about what you're leaving out next time you say a post praising how we respond to hurricanes? Because it's really, really easy to make the case that you accidentally forget about Puerto Rico because they don't look the right way. You keep doing it. Literally no one is making you say that we did a great job of coming together after hurricanes last year, but you keep saying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 41 minutes ago, Jenksismyhero said: It's a stretch to connect the awful things Trump tweets to this specific shooting. The dude was deranged and had a vendetta against that paper for years. edit: and because I have to, lest I be labeled a "supporter," that is NOT an excuse/justification/support for Trump saying those things. There really isn't a connection. It's just looks really bad that the President is calling journalists "enemy of the people" while they are being killed in this country. I read twitter thread early today from all journalists who receive death threats. It's pretty awful. One journalist covers make up and she receives death threats all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 The head of the NRA has been calling for the stomping out of journalists as well. She denied it, but the video is all over the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 3 hours ago, Dick Allen said: The head of the NRA has been calling for the stomping out of journalists as well. She denied it, but the video is all over the internet. Dana Boesch? Or Ollie North? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 12 hours ago, BigSqwert said: I find it hard to believe you didn't even accidentally skim at least one line. It's not like I pasted a wall of text. Whatever you think of the source, what was posted is indisputable fact. Ok, it is fact. I never said it wasnt. That doesnt change Shaun Kings lack of credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) On 6/29/2018 at 10:16 AM, BigHurt3515 said: I can want stronger immigration laws but that doesn't make me a horrible human. Honestly I don't really give a shit about politics but I do want what is best for our country and I don't want illegal people getting free passes. If you come in the right way I have no problems with you, I actually commend you. It's legal to come to this country seeking asylum, though, and these are the people whose families are being separated. Not sure if that's what you were referencing. Edited July 9, 2018 by Jose Abreu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Buffalo Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) Not sure if this will hijack the thread, so mods please move if it deserves its own thread or should be merged into a Chicago specific thread... A former co-worker from Chicago lost her son to gun violence on the south side this past week. I was looking for the obituary online, and I stumbled across an article about 2018 homocides in Chicago. https://graphics.suntimes.com/homicides/ This is not meant to spark any racial dialogue, but because race was listed on the homicide information provided, I decided to count the homocide victims by race. Of 284: 16 white, 33 Hispanic, and 1 Asian. So, 230+ are black. I may be off a little on the count, but I'm pretty sure I'm close. I'm wondering what can be done to curb the violence in the black community if they as a community seem to resist more police presence? Obviously, there are real reasons for the community's distrust of law enforcement. However, how can the violence be mitigated without some police intervention? Edited July 19, 2018 by Middle Buffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 14 hours ago, Middle Buffalo said: Not sure if this will hijack the thread, so mods please move if it deserves its own thread or should be merged into a Chicago specific thread... A former co-worker from Chicago lost her son to gun violence on the south side this past week. I was looking for the obituary online, and I stumbled across an article about 2018 homocides in Chicago. https://graphics.suntimes.com/homicides/ This is not meant to spark any racial dialogue, but because race was listed on the homicide information provided, I decided to count the homocide victims by race. Of 284: 16 white, 33 Hispanic, and 1 Asian. So, 230+ are black. I may be off a little on the count, but I'm pretty sure I'm close. I'm wondering what can be done to curb the violence in the black community if they as a community seem to resist more police presence? Obviously, there are real reasons for the community's distrust of law enforcement. However, how can the violence be mitigated without some police intervention? My first reply is that the segregated areas where black people were pushed into were much more heavily contaminated with lead pollution and as we get farther away from the heavy use of that, exposure will probably drop and as a consequence violence will probably continue to march downwards as it has for much of the last 25 years. But then my question to you is - is the only way for there to be a police presence to be police who are trigger happy and ready to arrest or shoot anyone they see who looks wrong? Summary of DOJ report Quote After reviewing police data, the Justice Department found Chicago officers used force nearly 10 times more in incidents involving black suspects than against white suspects. African-Americans were the subject of 80% of all police firearm uses and 81% of all Taser contact-stun uses between January 2011 and April 2016. Of incidents where use of force was used against a minor, 83% involved black children and 14% involved Latino children during the same time period, the report notes. "These data strongly support what we repeatedly and consistently heard from both law enforcement and community sources: Chicago’s black and Latino communities live not only with higher crime, but also with more instances of police abuse," the DOJ report said. "Starting from a young age, black and Latino people, especially those living in Chicago’s most challenged neighborhoods, have a vastly different experience with police than do white people. These negative, often tragic, interactions form the basis of minority communities’ distrust of police." The investigation also reviewed 203 officer-involved shooting incidents in the last five years in which at least one person was shot. The Justice Department concluded Chicago police often engage "in dangerous and unnecessary foot pursuits and other unsound tactics that result in CPD shooting people, including those who are unarmed." In some cases, the Justice Department found officers initiated foot pursuits without a basis for believing the person committed a serious crime. "We found many circumstances in which officers’ accounts of force incidents were later discredited, in whole or part, by video evidence," the report notes. "Given the numerous use-of-force incidents without video evidence ... the pattern of unreasonable force is likely even more widespread than we were able to discern through our investigation." A major factor contributing to the excessive use of force is poor training, the report found. At the city police academy, Justice officials observed that cops-in-training were shown a decades-old video that was inconsistent with current law and the department's policies. When investigators interviewed recruits who recently graduated from the academy only one in six "came close to properly articulating the legal standard for use of force." If that is the way police in Chicago are going to handle being police, then how can these communities trust that police won't make lives in their areas worse? People will not trust police or want police in their communities if their experience with police is the experience these communities currently have. Oh, and at some point it would be nice if the city could stop the flow of freedom coming from gun stores in Indiana and Wisconsin, but hey, that's just freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Buffalo Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Honestly, I have no idea what needs to be done. I used to have somewhat blind faith in police officers. That's me being a white male. Now, I don't blame minorities for their mistrust. I seriously wonder what the solution is. I suppose the answer will have to come from within the minority communities themselves. More police presence won't help if the behavior and attitudes of the officers toward minorities isn't changed. However, it doesn't really make sense that the mistreatment of minorities by law enforcement is the cause of such a disproportionate number of homicides of black citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 The guy murdered him while his 5 year old son watched. He also got into a fight with another guy at the same place a month before and used a bunch of racial slurs. But he's a Florida hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) That Florida case is disgusting. Somehow if the races of the two men were reversed I don’t think the charges come out the same. Edited July 25, 2018 by whitesoxfan99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 The big problem there in the video is that the guy takes two steps back as soon as the gun is out. I don't see how the shooter could be in imminent fear of death or serious harm when the guy is backing away. He should absolutely be charged and i'd find him guilty based on the clip I saw. That said (1) move the fucking car, (2) don't be an ass and immediately push the guy violently to the ground and then stand over him like you're about to do more damage in a state that allows concealed carry AND has stand your ground protections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 Going to throw this out there and see if it will actually prompt some interesting discussion, around the school shootings. Right now, when it comes to guns and violence, the Democrats/Liberals seem mostly focused on gun control. Restricting access to certain people, certain types of guns, timing and place of purchase, etc. The theory being pretty simple - gun violence occurs at a high rate here because guns are more available here. And on the surface that's true. BUT... Access to guns overall, today, is not materially different than it was decades ago. It hasn't changed. Yet we see this huge increase in school shootings, which for very good reason causes people to demand action, thus gun control. But the increase in school violence does not correlate with access to guns. So why would that be an answer? On the other hand, Republicans/conservatives seem stuck to the idea that the gun itself is not the problem, the user is, which again is sort of true. And that the real reason for the increase is some sort of decay in the moral fabric of America. Problem with this is, overall rates of all violent crimes have been in steep decline nationally for a few decades now. How can this violence be a result of decaying moral fabric when clearly, there are far less violent crimes being committed overall? That doesn't add up either. What does that leave for answers? I have two theories as to the root of the problems, though I don't pretend to know everything (and by the way, I am fine with some types of gun control to help stave off a few of the disasters that way as well)... 1. I think the modern media is a substantial part of the problem. People shooting up schools, these are not crimes of passion or robbery or drugs or territory. They are "I'll show them" and/or "the world will know my pain". That happens when their terrible acts are splashed all over the TV and internet. But, restricting media about what they can report is a bad road to go down. So - how do we address this aspect? 2. Mental health - not just diagnosed psychosis or the like but all aspects of it - needs to become a priority. Early identification of problems, and the provision of care to help head off SOME of these. How do we get there? How to get past the stigma? How to put mental health on par with physical health in our system? And, go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 1) I totally agree and have been harping on this for years. I truly believe cable news is one of the worst things to ever happen to society. I would like to see the shootings covered but they should be covered like suicides - no names, no motives, no screen time for the killer. Focus on the victims. But, until this issue stops being a ratings driver, that'll never happen. 2) This one is tough because unless you want to go all minority report and try to prevent future crime, what can you do? Counseling, sure, though I doubt most of these kids would attend/participate. Anti-bullying programs need to be emphasized more and I think that's a trend that has been around for a while. I know in my kid's school (early grade school), bullying is an insanely serious topic and it's zero policy. Some of the shooters were flagged by family and friends as someone who may be a problem, but you can't arrest someone on what they might do. I don't know what the solution is. Gun bans are garbage ideas, just like arming teachers is a garbage idea. So how do you properly flag these kids AND then do something to prevent them from hurting other people? The kid in Florida was flagged and expelled. That didn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 I agree with the cable news aspect you guys mentioned, it's definitely used as a ratings driver, which could end up enticing kids to become infamous. On the other hand, the internet is just as big of a problem and there's not much you can do about that. All this info about these shootings is readily available on the web, then you can go deep into those various reddit threads, chats, whatever else there is that I don't even know about it. Kids anonymously encouraging others to go out and act on their fears. I guess as parents you can try to police a child's internet use, but we all know that won't happen in most houses, especially when the kids knows 10x more about the web than the folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 17 hours ago, Jenksismyhero said: The big problem there in the video is that the guy takes two steps back as soon as the gun is out. I don't see how the shooter could be in imminent fear of death or serious harm when the guy is backing away. He should absolutely be charged and i'd find him guilty based on the clip I saw. That said (1) move the fucking car, (2) don't be an ass and immediately push the guy violently to the ground and then stand over him like you're about to do more damage in a state that allows concealed carry AND has stand your ground protections. Agree on moving the car and if not taken out of context the girlfriend's statement that she has a right to park wherever she wants is absurd but at the same time that guy apparently seeks out conflicts like this and we have no idea what he was saying to the girlfriend. That guy is a raging asshole and I wouldn't be shocked if he was hoping someone was going to push him down like this so he could shoot them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 On 7/20/2018 at 10:55 PM, Balta1701 said: The guy murdered him while his 5 year old son watched. He also got into a fight with another guy at the same place a month before and used a bunch of racial slurs. But he's a Florida hero. Good god Florida is a total wasteland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 32 minutes ago, LittleHurt05 said: I agree with the cable news aspect you guys mentioned, it's definitely used as a ratings driver, which could end up enticing kids to become infamous. On the other hand, the internet is just as big of a problem and there's not much you can do about that. All this info about these shootings is readily available on the web, then you can go deep into those various reddit threads, chats, whatever else there is that I don't even know about it. Kids anonymously encouraging others to go out and act on their fears. I guess as parents you can try to police a child's internet use, but we all know that won't happen in most houses, especially when the kids knows 10x more about the web than the folks. Why do these things happen over and over in the US but don't seem to happen in other countries that have similar media access and similar levels of mental health issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 4 hours ago, StrangeSox said: Why do these things happen over and over in the US but don't seem to happen in other countries that have similar media access and similar levels of mental health issues? Sure, civilian access to heavy artillery is a problem too, but I don't think that's the discussion NSS was looking to open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 If you want to look into media and mental health as potential causes, don't you need to compare it to other countries? If you hold those variables constant and still find different results, that should tell you something about the causal relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 On 7/27/2018 at 1:49 PM, StrangeSox said: If you want to look into media and mental health as potential causes, don't you need to compare it to other countries? If you hold those variables constant and still find different results, that should tell you something about the causal relationship. That's key too, but it is not about one thing. In other words, yes the access to guns clearly is an issue as it's the instrument of choice. But there are other variables that indicate that is not the only thing at play, and if that was the only difference, then why the consistent drop in crime for decades? Why the increase in these mass shootings when access levels haven't changed materially? Why did one particular type of incident blow up in direct opposition to all the related trends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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