Rating the Rebuild: Completed Year 1 Edition

[chitownsportsfan 2,280]

If you gave a different rating earlier in the year, elaborate. Note that on June 26th when the original poll was started we finished with 40% of us rating it a 10 or 9. Here is the link to the original thread.

 

Since then the Sox made the following transactions.

 

I went with a 9. Rodon I rate outside their control and the only real miss step IMO was going after Rutherford. Enough position players made enough progress in the low minors to where I won't knock them. It would have been better if Basabe and Collins improved but some prospects bust Sox just need to come out on average.

 

Enough vets came through, enough non prospects came through, and the club won enough at the end with the early wave that I am quite excited, thus 9. Next year will be more telling, and we'll have twice as big of a sample so we'll see!

Edited October 3, 2017 by chitownsportsfan

[credezcrew24 30]

I've liked every move that Hahn has made except for the Yankees deal

[jenksycat 78]

0 till they win the world series

[chitownsportsfan 2,280]

0 till they win the world series

 

the greg option.

[mmmmmbeeer 94]

That Yankees trade dropped it from a 10 to a 9. Whether it was a matter of money or just negotiations, we should've come out better than we did, imo.

 

I dropped another point, to an 8, on our inability to trade any of our vet starters (outside Rodon) for anything by the waiver deadline. Just a low floor/high ceiling A-ball prospect out of trading the bunch would've satisfied me. Flipping FA assets is a big part of a rebuild and it was a weakness.

 

Still, that's a strong ass 8. As I've read countless times on SoxTalk, winning more games than we wanted to during the end of the season, given that most of those wins were due to contributions from our young guys, isn't a bad thing. Kopech and Moncada look to be cornerstones of this franchise for years to come....Eloy has all-star production written all over him, other young guys in the system are progressing very well and those who are scuffling we didn't have particularly high expectations of anyway (Collins kind of excluded, he showed life).

[jenksycat 78]

That Yankees trade dropped it from a 10 to a 9. Whether it was a matter of money or just negotiations, we should've come out better than we did, imo.

 

I dropped another point, to an 8, on our inability to trade any of our vet starters (outside Rodon) for anything by the waiver deadline. Just a low floor/high ceiling A-ball prospect out of trading the bunch would've satisfied me. Flipping FA assets is a big part of a rebuild and it was a weakness.

 

Still, that's a strong ass 8. As I've read countless times on SoxTalk, winning more games than we wanted to during the end of the season, given that most of those wins were due to contributions from our young guys, isn't a bad thing. Kopech and Moncada look to be cornerstones of this franchise for years to come....Eloy has all-star production written all over him, other young guys in the system are progressing very well and those who are scuffling we didn't have particularly high expectations of anyway (Collins kind of excluded, he showed life).

 

I just see those -2 points as being spoiled from the Sale/Eaton/Q deals. We got a 1st round pick we wanted the previous year for an expensive closer we didn't need a reliever coming off 60 good innings. Veteran scrap heap starters aren't worth anything either.

[credezcrew24 30]

I just see those -2 points as being spoiled from the Sale/Eaton/Q deals. We got a 1st round pick we wanted the previous year for an expensive closer we didn't need a reliever coming off 60 good innings. Veteran scrap heap starters aren't worth anything either.

 

The Sox got Puckett + for a veteran rental scrap heap starter in Melky. The Sox got Cordell for a veteran rental in Swarzak. The Sox got Gillespie for a LOOGY.

 

Based on those 3 returns I'd say without reservation that my view isn't spoiled from the Sale/Eaton/Q deals. It simply wasn't a good return relative to any other deal Hahn made. If Melky gets Puckett + then Frazier alone should equal Clarkin.

 

I don't have any doubt the Sox would have benefited from holding on to Kahnle and letting him close. Also Davidson isn't "expensive" he's a market value closer.

 

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24 702]

I gave it a 9 simply because I feel the Yankees deal was a little light, in retrospect. I was excited for Rutherford, but his performance post-trade is a good reminder of not sticking too much trade-return value in to one guy. Clarkin is an interesting piece, but a reclamation project at this point. Tito Polo actually had good results, but I'm tempering enthusiasm.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside 1,871]

I sure hope when and if the Sox become contenders that we don;t trade as huge a talent as Eloy seems to be.

[oldsox 200]

Hahn should have received more in the Sale trade. Nothing against Kopech or Moncada, obviously. But, Hahn should have received four legitimate prospects. Basabe and Diaz are not on that category.

[Eminor3rd 722]

The Sox got Puckett + for a veteran rental scrap heap starter in Melky. The Sox got Cordell for a veteran rental in Swarzak. The Sox got Gillespie for a LOOGY.

 

Based on those 3 returns I'd say without reservation that my view isn't spoiled from the Sale/Eaton/Q deals. It simply wasn't a good return relative to any other deal Hahn made. If Melky gets Puckett + then Frazier alone should equal Clarkin.

 

I don't have any doubt the Sox would have benefited from holding on to Kahnle and letting him close. Also Davidson isn't "expensive" he's a market value closer.

 

I know it's weird to think about, but we have to remember that "market value" means "no surplus value." So what a team is willing to pay for a "market value" asset is literally a matter of how much they are willing to OVERPAY for the asset given their current situation in the standings.

 

Getting anything significant for a "market value" asset is a good deal, and largely depends more on the context around the teams involved that it does on one person's "skills" as a negotiator.

[steveno89 278]

Hahn should have received more in the Sale trade. Nothing against Kopech or Moncada, obviously. But, Hahn should have received four legitimate prospects. Basabe and Diaz are not on that category.

 

Moncada and Kopech are both elite prospects. Who else was going to offer a better package than that?

 

The rebuild has been as good as we could hope so far, minus dealing Tatis Jr. for Shields in what is looking like a big mistake. Lets hope we can recoup some of that lost value in the 2018 draft.

 

I expect us to be active in the rule V draft coming up as well.

[Squirmin' for Yermin 616]

I went with a 9 simply because I am and was disappointed in the Yankees trade.

[Soha 0]

I'll give it a 9. I like just about everything. Eloy, Kopech, Robert, Hansen...wow. The only thing holding me back from a 10 so far is the 2017 MLB draft picks. Just not a fan of Jake Burger or some of the other guys that followed him. Perhaps unfair expectations were there after the big class from 2016.

[bmags 4,584]

I gave a 9 too (I think).

 

Some thoughts:

With others on the Yankees trade. I really liked many of the yankees 8-14 prospects (some used to acquire Sonny Gray) that going after the bigger fish of Rutherford at expense of pretty meh backend guys didn't do it for me. However, I'm not writing Rutherford off. He needs to make a big jump next year though.

 

The other trades like Swarzak for Cordell, Jennings for Gillaspie, it's weird for me to say I didn't like them. I did. Sox seemed to like going after the players that struggled or were blocked just befor emajors.

 

But, they weren't the player type I wanted. I was hoping to get some 18-19 year old big arms with big flaws, some big athletes but little polish. Sort of like what Preller was doing.

 

I don't think they were bad trades, I think we may very well get actual major league production from them. But we are going to see this group of college players graduate to double A soon next year and we'll see a massive gulf of nothing behind them unless our LatAm signings begin to pay off.

 

Lost in all this was Robert. Who, because we stashed him for taxes, I sort of forget how exciting he is. Can't wait for him to be stateside.

[yesterday333 164]

I wonder if Rutherford had come over and hit .300 with some power if people wouldn't be so disappointed with the yankee deal. I really like Tito Polo so I don't hate this trade very much.At the time of the trade yanks fans were really upset they gave up Polo so that says a lot to me. And if Rutherford turns it around next year it will be a great trade.

I gave the rebuild a 10. Right now we have so much potential that guys a year ago I really liked are after thoughts. There has yet to be a move I hate, and most the moves got more than I thought they would. Plus the signing of Robert...

[southsider2k5 4,858]

Hahn should have received more in the Sale trade. Nothing against Kopech or Moncada, obviously. But, Hahn should have received four legitimate prospects. Basabe and Diaz are not on that category.

 

What better offer was out there? I sure haven't heard it.

[Balta1701 2,657]

I gave a 9 too (I think).

 

Some thoughts:

With others on the Yankees trade. I really liked many of the yankees 8-14 prospects (some used to acquire Sonny Gray) that going after the bigger fish of Rutherford at expense of pretty meh backend guys didn't do it for me. However, I'm not writing Rutherford off. He needs to make a big jump next year though.

 

The other trades like Swarzak for Cordell, Jennings for Gillaspie, it's weird for me to say I didn't like them. I did. Sox seemed to like going after the players that struggled or were blocked just befor emajors.

 

But, they weren't the player type I wanted. I was hoping to get some 18-19 year old big arms with big flaws, some big athletes but little polish. Sort of like what Preller was doing.

 

I don't think they were bad trades, I think we may very well get actual major league production from them. But we are going to see this group of college players graduate to double A soon next year and we'll see a massive gulf of nothing behind them unless our LatAm signings begin to pay off.

 

Lost in all this was Robert. Who, because we stashed him for taxes, I sort of forget how exciting he is. Can't wait for him to be stateside.

Re: the stuff in the middle. Counting the fact that the White Sox were drafting in the top 10 again and weren't giving up any draft picks to sign guys...I think there was also a "Where would they play" factor. Our lower minors are heavy right now on position players we just drafted and guys we traded for. The only real place where we actually had room to play guys is at the AAA/AAAA level, and that's where Hahn started grabbing guys in those minor league deals. The low-minors the next 2 years should be still pretty full counting guys from the last 2 drafts.

 

[GenericUserName 268]

Based on the individual trades and other acquisitions, I'd give it an 8 because I didn't like the Yankees trade and I think we might have gotten a few too many older guys that might put us in a 40 man roster crunch really soon.

 

However, when I look back over the past year and see the sheer number of good prospects we got and how it looks like this rebuild will only really take 2 years for us to be competitive again while other teams are floundering around for years, I have to give it a 10. The goal of the rebuild was to put us in position to win a World Series and be competitive for a long time, and I think after this year we are well on our way.

[BlackSox13 401]

Oh wow, I went with 9 as well. Not because I feel the Yanks package was lite but because Rutherford didn't do much of anything since coming to the Sox. That's said, Rutherford is young, raw and I do believe he will break out next season. As for the rest of moves Hahn made, love em all. I honestly have no complaints.

[oneofthemikes 149]

8/10

 

Lose a point for the Yankee deal (although I'm not ready to totally close the door on Rutherford) and lose another point for the Tatis deal (I know that was before the "official" start of the rebuild but I'm not going to ignore it.)

 

I also would have liked a nicer 3rd piece in both the Sale and Q deals. I would have rather seen those deals look like the Eaton deal (two studs and a nice high upside 3rd piece) than where they ended up (two studs and two org filler pieces).

Edited October 3, 2017 by oneofthemikes

[jenksycat 78]

What better offer was out there? I sure haven't heard it.

 

Got the best hitting prospect in baseball and the best pitching prospect in baseball. Unless some other team was willing to give us a 6+ for 1 deal, nobody would be able to match that.

[southsider2k5 4,858]

Got the best hitting prospect in baseball and the best pitching prospect in baseball. Unless some other team was willing to give us a 6+ for 1 deal, nobody would be able to match that.

 

That's how I felt about it. There is the very real possibility that Moncada alone could replace the WAR we were getting from Sale. Kopech also has that kind of ceiling. That is a huge start to this deal.

[ChiSox_Sonix 0]

What better offer was out there? I sure haven't heard it.

 

Just a hypothetical thought I had, but if that Quintana trade had been made first, does the Sale trade change at all? If the Sox really did want Devers over Moncada (and Boston said no is the rumor), would the fact that Chicago traded Jimenez for Quintana have changed their mind?

 

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by ChiSox_Sonix

[chitownsportsfan 2,280]

Moncada and Kopech are both elite prospects. Who else was going to offer a better package than that?

 

The rebuild has been as good as we could hope so far, minus dealing Tatis Jr. for Shields in what is looking like a big mistake. Lets hope we can recoup some of that lost value in the 2018 draft.

 

I expect us to be active in the rule V draft coming up as well.

 

One of the more interesting parts of this off-season will probably be how they handle the 40 man and if they do anything in the rule 5. I'm guessing Tyler will be cut loose and maybe a reliever or two.