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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 9, 2017 -> 09:39 AM)
The pendulum has swung WAY too far here. While it isn't the most important stat, if you are getting a high number of wins it means you are pitching well enough to give your team a chance to win on a regular basis, while you can get some statistical flukes built into that such as the year Nolan Ryan led the league in ERA, but went 8-16, it is usually a pretty good indicator that a pitcher is doing two things. They are not giving up a lot of runs, and they are pitching relatively late into games. Last I checked, those are two pretty good things to get out of your starting pitcher on a regular basis.

While that's true, you also can't fault a pitcher for having a bad W/L in comparisons, because the pitcher's defense/run support are so instrumental in securing a W or L.

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 9, 2017 -> 09:23 AM)
pitching wins looking at an entire career dont mean all that much. But knowing that Sale hasnt been able to beat the Indians in the regular season(and they roughed him up) is kind of important going into the playoffs

But you can know that the Indians roughed him up by looking at other stats too

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QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 9, 2017 -> 10:45 AM)
But you can know that the Indians roughed him up by looking at other stats too

 

Of course. Wins don’t tell much of the story but they are part of it. And dismissing them completely doesn’t really do much good.

 

Chris Sale hasn’t been able to beat the Indians, and has been roughed up while trying. The end

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But in the case of Jose Quintana, we should absolutely use No Decisions as a stat to prove he is cursed.

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QUOTE (Tony @ Oct 9, 2017 -> 12:21 PM)
We have the same conversation every offseason :lol:

Maybe next year, we won't have to! ;)

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QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 9, 2017 -> 01:10 PM)
Doesn't have the stones.

The trade should have been Benitendi, Moncada, Kopech, and Devers.

#fail

 

( this is a joke - of course. )

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QUOTE (hi8is @ Oct 9, 2017 -> 03:13 PM)
The trade should have been Benitendi, Moncada, Kopech, and Devers.

#fail

 

( this is a joke - of course. )

 

I would have needed to change my pants at least twice if that deal happened haha

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QUOTE (maxjusttyped @ Oct 9, 2017 -> 03:06 PM)
Chris Sale, with the Red Sox season on the line, against the best offensive team in baseball:

 

4 IP, 2 H, 1 R, 6 K, 0 BB.

 

FIFY

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 9, 2017 -> 09:39 AM)
The pendulum has swung WAY too far here. While it isn't the most important stat, if you are getting a high number of wins it means you are pitching well enough to give your team a chance to win on a regular basis, while you can get some statistical flukes built into that such as the year Nolan Ryan led the league in ERA, but went 8-16, it is usually a pretty good indicator that a pitcher is doing two things. They are not giving up a lot of runs, and they are pitching relatively late into games. Last I checked, those are two pretty good things to get out of your starting pitcher on a regular basis.

It isn't an important stat at all. It doesn't tell you anything. That's an extreme example, but a player like Q is the poster child of why wins are a bad stat. They don't tell you anything.

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QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Oct 9, 2017 -> 04:25 PM)
It isn't an important stat at all. It doesn't tell you anything. That's an extreme example, but a player like Q is the poster child of why wins are a bad stat. They don't tell you anything.

 

It tells you something, and you don't have to be that smart to understand what and how it can be used.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 9, 2017 -> 04:31 PM)
It tells you something, and you don't have to be that smart to understand what and how it can be used.

It's impossible to know for sure, but I would be very surprised if there's a single front office still using W/L record to evaluate pitchers.

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QUOTE (maxjusttyped @ Oct 9, 2017 -> 04:40 PM)
It's impossible to know for sure, but I would be very surprised if there's a single front office still using W/L record to evaluate pitchers.

As an evaluation tool I'd be shocked if there's any that do.

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QUOTE (maxjusttyped @ Oct 9, 2017 -> 04:40 PM)
It's impossible to know for sure, but I would be very surprised if there's a single front office still using W/L record to evaluate pitchers.

 

In the information age, I highly doubt any teams are eliminating bits of information.

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QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Oct 9, 2017 -> 05:25 PM)
It isn't an important stat at all. It doesn't tell you anything. That's an extreme example, but a player like Q is the poster child of why wins are a bad stat. They don't tell you anything.

Q just got pulled out of the game after Kyle Schwarber played soccer in left field. The announcer said "Quintana deserved better." How many times have we heard that? Story of his life. Man.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 9, 2017 -> 04:31 PM)
It tells you something, and you don't have to be that smart to understand what and how it can be used.

We're all waiting for you to tell us what is evident to you yet the rest of baseball has long discarded. What does it tell you about a pitcher that isn't better explained by advanced value statistics?

 

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 9, 2017 -> 04:47 PM)
In the information age, I highly doubt any teams are eliminating bits of information.

 

You're really trying to save pitching wins when it is clear no one uses them any longer. You aren't even justifying W-L existence anymore. They have no justification.

 

It's pretty ridiculous that someone as intelligent as you who has watched Quintana's entire career would put any credence into pitching wins and losses. I genuinely think you're a smart guy, but you're better than this.

Edited by Sox-35th

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QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Oct 9, 2017 -> 05:21 PM)
We're all waiting for you to tell us what is evident to you yet the rest of baseball has long discarded. What does it tell you about a pitcher that isn't better explained by advanced value statistics?

 

 

 

You're really trying to save pitching wins when it is clear no one uses them any longer. You aren't even justifying W-L existence anymore. They have no justification.

 

It's pretty ridiculous that someone as intelligent as you who has watched Quintana's entire career would put any credence into pitching wins and losses. I genuinely think you're a smart guy, but you're better than this.

 

Yet I am not surprised at all here.

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