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Our Next Manager?

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QUOTE (FloydBannister1983 @ Oct 31, 2017 -> 06:17 PM)
I certainly hope for the sake of people that are fans of the White Sox that your faith is rewarded. It is certainly possible that the very same management group could do a complete reversal of everything they have stood for for the past 37 years. I'll continue to rely on evidence. Hopefully I can be wrong and they will hire a qualified manager someday.

I'm not necessarily saying that I suspect they will change their ways. But I do think they could attract some high-level candidates, if they indeed wanted to.

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 31, 2017 -> 07:30 PM)
I think the history you are pointing to has more to do with the way the White Sox choose their managers than the potential candidates available to them.

 

I tend to agree with Greg here...I think we could attract any number of extremely qualified candidates.

 

Are the candidates not available because of the team or because of the salary offer? Girardi could be hired by the Reds or Padres tomorrow if they offered enough. I think the Sox could have had several extremely qualified candidates, but ownership has no wish to pay them or even meet with them if they never played in Chicago before.

 

It's not about nobody wanting to coach the Sox, it's about the Sox limiting their coaching search.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 31, 2017 -> 09:57 PM)
Ozzie is now begging for the Cubs bench coach job. Remember all of the s*** he used to talk about the Cubs? What a clown.

 

Pretty sure this would kill my brother and Greg.

 

 

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 31, 2017 -> 10:00 PM)
Are the candidates not available because of the team or because of the salary offer? Girardi could be hired by the Reds or Padres tomorrow if they offered enough. I think the Sox could have had several extremely qualified candidates, but ownership has no wish to pay them or even meet with them if they never played in Chicago before.

 

It's not about nobody wanting to coach the Sox, it's about the Sox limiting their coaching search.

 

Renteria?

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QUOTE (Quin @ Oct 31, 2017 -> 10:54 PM)
Renteria?

 

Renteria was cheap and had already been coaching here, although not an ex White Sox.

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If the cubs actually hired Ozzie to be their bench coach, I would cry... from laughing so hard.

 

Maddon is relatively soft spoken with a humble demeanor, the opposite of Ozzie. Don't see those two being a good match in the dugout, at all.

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QUOTE (FloydBannister1983 @ Nov 1, 2017 -> 01:12 AM)
Chicago itself is not an entry level job but managing the White Sox is. Why? ESPN can't remember they exist. They routinely have one of the lowest television ratings in the league. Every manager they've hired in the last 40 years has had no managing experience, except for the current guy who had a cup of coffee with the organization on the north side until a top tier manager became available. They are a small market team in the third largest market in the country. This is why managing the White Sox is an entry level position, for starters.

 

But if you want to ignore all of history then I concede that Joe Girardi or Dusty Baker or Tony LaRussa or Joe Torre or Bob Brenley or any other top tier manager could end up here. I hope for your sake you get your wish.

 

As far as 2, 3, 4 titles goes ... They've been to the postseason 5 times in the last 50 years and have advanced one single season. I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm but I'd wait for the crown jewel of your rebuild to average his weight before you have them winning four titles.

Your posts are quite interesting and good.

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QUOTE (ron883 @ Oct 31, 2017 -> 10:10 PM)
You're taking the whole "I'm a complete dolt" act to a whole new level. sorry mods, but 4 titles? :lol:

Well, the Cubs had a shot at 2 this season. Most think they'll contend next year and the year after if they tweak a bit. I didn't say anything outlandish.

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QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Oct 31, 2017 -> 04:29 PM)
I'll give you points for enthusiasm but winning the World Series is really, really hard. Much less the same manager winning it multiple times with the same team. It hasn't happened much. Especially for teams not named the Yankees.

 

  • Bruce Bochy — San Francisco Giants: 2014, 2012 & 2010
  • Tony La Russa — St. Louis Cardinals: 2011 & 2006
  • Sparky Anderson — Cincinnati Reds: 1976 & 1975
  • Miller Huggins — New York Yankees: 1928, 1927 & 1923
  • John McGraw — New York Giants: 1922, 1921 & 1905
  • Joe Torre — New York Yankees: 2000, 1999, 1998 & 1996
  • Walter Alston — Los Angeles/Brooklyn Dodgers: 1965, 1963, 1959 & 1955-x

    x-Brooklyn

  • Connie Mack — Philadelphia A's: 1930, 1929, 1913, 1911 & 1910
  • Casey Stengel — New York Yankees: 1958, 1956, 1953, 1952, 1951, 1950 & 1949
  • Joe McCarthy — New York Yankees: 1943, 1941, 1939, 1938, 1937, 1936 & 1933

 

Not sure if that's an all-inclusive list. Just what a quick google search gave me.

 

How could you forget 93!?!

 

Cito Gaston, 1992 & 1993.

 

Tom Kelly won it twice with Minnesota (87/91).

 

Sparky Anderson won it with Detroit in 1984 in addition to his Reds wins and Tony LaRussa won in 89 with the A’s (and should have won in 83 with some ugly team).

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QUOTE (FloydBannister1983 @ Oct 31, 2017 -> 07:12 PM)
Chicago itself is not an entry level job but managing the White Sox is. Why? ESPN can't remember they exist. They routinely have one of the lowest television ratings in the league. Every manager they've hired in the last 40 years has had no managing experience, except for the current guy who had a cup of coffee with the organization on the north side until a top tier manager became available. They are a small market team in the third largest market in the country. This is why managing the White Sox is an entry level position, for starters.

 

But if you want to ignore all of history then I concede that Joe Girardi or Dusty Baker or Tony LaRussa or Joe Torre or Bob Brenley or any other top tier manager could end up here. I hope for your sake you get your wish.

 

As far as 2, 3, 4 titles goes ... They've been to the postseason 5 times in the last 50 years and have advanced one single season. I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm but I'd wait for the crown jewel of your rebuild to average his weight before you have them winning four titles.

 

It isn’t that the job is entry level; it’s that ownership has been cheap with managers; just like how we won’t pay big long-term contracts to players (not since Albert Belle), we haven’t broke the bank to hire a name manager.

 

If the Sox are willing to pay, they can get whatever manager they wanted.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 31, 2017 -> 08:57 PM)
Ozzie is now begging for the Cubs bench coach job. Remember all of the s*** he used to talk about the Cubs? What a clown.

 

The Marlins buy-out cash has probably dried up.

 

Ozzie shouldn’t burn bridges.

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QUOTE (Latilleon @ Nov 1, 2017 -> 05:43 AM)
It isn’t that the job is entry level; it’s that ownership has been cheap with managers; just like how we won’t pay big long-term contracts to players (not since Albert Belle), we haven’t broke the bank to hire a name manager.

 

If the Sox are willing to pay, they can get whatever manager they wanted.

 

I don't think salary is all that goes into it. They factor in casual fan interest (non-existent) and opportunity to grow the fan base (won't happen to a significant degree due to the monopoly the organization on the north side has on the casual fan). A top tier manager doesn't want to go to a place where he will be ignored by sports networks and the fan base doesn't watch them on television.

 

I hope for the sake of White Sox fans I'm wrong but I'm afraid the White Sox are stuck perpetually with the Renteria's and Bevington's and Ventura's and Manuel's of the world. I don't see the Leyland's or LaRussa's or Girardi's of the world ever changing course and discovering that this is a good landing spot.

 

 

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QUOTE (Latilleon @ Nov 1, 2017 -> 05:45 AM)
The Marlins buy-out cash has probably dried up.

 

Ozzie shouldn’t burn bridges.

 

He is a cartoon character. An embarrassment to humanity.

 

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QUOTE (FloydBannister1983 @ Oct 31, 2017 -> 07:12 PM)
Chicago itself is not an entry level job but managing the White Sox is. Why? ESPN can't remember they exist. They routinely have one of the lowest television ratings in the league. Every manager they've hired in the last 40 years has had no managing experience, except for the current guy who had a cup of coffee with the organization on the north side until a top tier manager became available. They are a small market team in the third largest market in the country. This is why managing the White Sox is an entry level position, for starters.

 

But if you want to ignore all of history then I concede that Joe Girardi or Dusty Baker or Tony LaRussa or Joe Torre or Bob Brenley or any other top tier manager could end up here. I hope for your sake you get your wish.

 

As far as 2, 3, 4 titles goes ... They've been to the postseason 5 times in the last 50 years and have advanced one single season. I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm but I'd wait for the crown jewel of your rebuild to average his weight before you have them winning four titles.

 

There also aren't all that many super-experienced "high profile managers" hopping from big market team to big market team in baseball, and hiring managers from within - or managers with little to no experience - is pretty common among teams of all types. Joe Girardi wasn't that high profile or experienced when the Yankees hired him, and it wasn't for lack of organizational status. See also the Dodgers' hire of Dave Roberts, and many other examples. Judging the attractiveness of a team as a destination by its "success" or "failure" in hiring Dusty Baker types doesn't really make sense.

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QUOTE (FloydBannister1983 @ Nov 1, 2017 -> 07:45 AM)
I don't think salary is all that goes into it. They factor in casual fan interest (non-existent) and opportunity to grow the fan base (won't happen to a significant degree due to the monopoly the organization on the north side has on the casual fan). A top tier manager doesn't want to go to a place where he will be ignored by sports networks and the fan base doesn't watch them on television.

 

I hope for the sake of White Sox fans I'm wrong but I'm afraid the White Sox are stuck perpetually with the Renteria's and Bevington's and Ventura's and Manuel's of the world. I don't see the Leyland's or LaRussa's or Girardi's of the world ever changing course and discovering that this is a good landing spot.

 

 

Let’s say Renteria has a running in place season where young guys develop but his managing doesn’t seem to have a bright future blossoming into a truly competitive team. But Moncada, Anderson, and Rodon look like they will be All-Stars for a long time; Kopech and Jimenez are looking like stars, and Jerry is willing to pay whatever it takes to get a tier 1 free agent like Machado. The Sox hire a name manager.

 

If the Sox have a run like they did from 1990-2008, you think the fan base can’t grow because of the Cubs? If the Sox got a quarter of the local market, that’s a piece bigger than Milwaukee, Kansas City, and Cincinnati.

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I think the White Sox position would be quite attractive. Since Bevington was fired after essentially 2.5 seasons, the White Sox have had 4 managers in 20 years, with Renteria just finishing his first season. Excluding Renteria, since he just concluded his first year, that's 3 managers in 19 seasons. What other organization, with such little in the way of results, has averaged 6 years per manager? This isn't like Miami, where you might lose your job if you sneeze on the mound while removing a pitcher.

 

Job loyalty does go a long ways, so if Girardi were looking for job security, he couldn't find a better spot.

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QUOTE (35thstreetswarm @ Nov 1, 2017 -> 10:31 AM)
There also aren't all that many super-experienced "high profile managers" hopping from big market team to big market team in baseball, and hiring managers from within - or managers with little to no experience - is pretty common among teams of all types. Joe Girardi wasn't that high profile or experienced when the Yankees hired him, and it wasn't for lack of organizational status. See also the Dodgers' hire of Dave Roberts, and many other examples. Judging the attractiveness of a team as a destination by its "success" or "failure" in hiring Dusty Baker types doesn't really make sense.

 

Girardi won the National League coach of the year when Jeffrey Loris foolishly fired him. He might not have been very experienced, but he wasn’t a novice either. Girardi was an “internal” candidate for the Yankees, but he pursued the Cubs job and was offered the Orioles job before he became the Yankees manager.

 

But he’s high profile now and would take a good investment to get him. He’s probably going to get a TV job for next season and if Jerry wants him, Jerry can probably get him.

Edited by Latilleon

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QUOTE (Latilleon @ Nov 1, 2017 -> 11:24 AM)
Let’s say Renteria has a running in place season where young guys develop but his managing doesn’t seem to have a bright future blossoming into a truly competitive team. But Moncada, Anderson, and Rodon look like they will be All-Stars for a long time; Kopech and Jimenez are looking like stars, and Jerry is willing to pay whatever it takes to get a tier 1 free agent like Machado. The Sox hire a name manager.

 

If the Sox have a run like they did from 1990-2008, you think the fan base can’t grow because of the Cubs? If the Sox got a quarter of the local market, that’s a piece bigger than Milwaukee, Kansas City, and Cincinnati.

 

Does Anderson look like he will be an All-Star for a long time? He was third to last in WAR, fourth in strikeout percentage and led all shortstops in errors.

 

At this point nagging injuries may turn Rodon into Kerry Wood. I'm not sure I'd count on him in the future.

 

I think it's a bit too early to declare Moncada an All-Star for a long time when he hit .231 and had a rather pedestrian .750 OPS. Let's see one season above .300 and .850 before we declare him an All-Star in perpetuity.

 

Outside of his first year and one two-year message of defiance to the rest of the owners Reinsdorf has never been able to attract a top free agent in either of the clubs he owns in the 37 years he has owned this team. I do know it is possible for things that have never happened before to suddenly reverse course and I hope your faith will be rewarded.

 

I think the White Sox will have a hard time growing their fan base while in competition with the Cubs. I concede it is possible that they could change the entire culture of Chicago and rebuild the entire neighborhood and make the area hopping with bars and restaurants and make it the coolest area in the city. That would certainly grow their attraction of the casual fan.

 

One quarter of the local market is not bigger than Milwaukee, Kansas City, and Cincinnati and I think one quarter is optimistic thinking but I don't want to dampen your optimism. In terms of households tuning in on television they are at under twenty percent . If you think the White Sox can capture one quarter of the local market then I certainly hope you are correct.

Edited by FloydBannister1983

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QUOTE (Latilleon @ Nov 1, 2017 -> 05:39 AM)
How could you forget 93!?!

 

Cito Gaston, 1992 & 1993.

 

Tom Kelly won it twice with Minnesota (87/91).

 

Sparky Anderson won it with Detroit in 1984 in addition to his Reds wins and Tony LaRussa won in 89 with the A’s (and should have won in 83 with some ugly team).

 

It doesn't matter. The person the message was intended for will ignore it anyway.

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QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Oct 31, 2017 -> 04:29 PM)
I'll give you points for enthusiasm but winning the World Series is really, really hard. Much less the same manager winning it multiple times with the same team. It hasn't happened much. Especially for teams not named the Yankees.

 

  • Bruce Bochy — San Francisco Giants: 2014, 2012 & 2010
  • Tony La Russa — St. Louis Cardinals: 2011 & 2006
  • Sparky Anderson — Cincinnati Reds: 1976 & 1975
  • Miller Huggins — New York Yankees: 1928, 1927 & 1923
  • John McGraw — New York Giants: 1922, 1921 & 1905
  • Joe Torre — New York Yankees: 2000, 1999, 1998 & 1996
  • Walter Alston — Los Angeles/Brooklyn Dodgers: 1965, 1963, 1959 & 1955-x

    x-Brooklyn

  • Connie Mack — Philadelphia A's: 1930, 1929, 1913, 1911 & 1910
  • Casey Stengel — New York Yankees: 1958, 1956, 1953, 1952, 1951, 1950 & 1949
  • Joe McCarthy — New York Yankees: 1943, 1941, 1939, 1938, 1937, 1936 & 1933

 

Not sure if that's an all-inclusive list. Just what a quick google search gave me.

 

Dick Williams and Tommy LaSorda did it with Oakland and the Dodgers respectively.

 

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QUOTE (FloydBannister1983 @ Oct 31, 2017 -> 06:12 PM)
Chicago itself is not an entry level job but managing the White Sox is. Why? ESPN can't remember they exist. They routinely have one of the lowest television ratings in the league. Every manager they've hired in the last 40 years has had no managing experience, except for the current guy who had a cup of coffee with the organization on the north side until a top tier manager became available. They are a small market team in the third largest market in the country. This is why managing the White Sox is an entry level position, for starters.

 

Jeff Torborg says "hello..."

 

But I do see your point.

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QUOTE (Latilleon @ Nov 1, 2017 -> 04:43 AM)
It isn’t that the job is entry level; it’s that ownership has been cheap with managers; just like how we won’t pay big long-term contracts to players (not since Albert Belle), we haven’t broke the bank to hire a name manager.

 

If the Sox are willing to pay, they can get whatever manager they wanted.

 

There is some truth to this. JR has never felt that a manager or head coach was simply that much of a difference maker, plus for right or for wrong he has always felt in giving chances to people who impress him even though they may not have experience.

 

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QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Nov 1, 2017 -> 04:00 PM)
Jeff Torborg says "hello..."

 

But I do see your point.

 

You are correct. Jeff Torborg managed two partial seasons for lowly Cleveland Indians (back when they were so bad they made a movie about them) ten years before he was hired by the White Sox.

 

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QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Nov 1, 2017 -> 04:00 PM)
Jeff Torborg says "hello..."

 

But I do see your point.

 

Also Jim Fergosi (sic) had an uneventful cup of coffee with the White Sox after the guy they want to honor next year fired HOF manager Tony LaRussa (and forced LaRussa to turn HOF catcher into an outfielder).

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QUOTE (FloydBannister1983 @ Nov 1, 2017 -> 04:44 PM)
Also Jim Fergosi (sic) had an uneventful cup of coffee with the White Sox after the guy they want to honor next year fired HOF manager Tony LaRussa (and forced LaRussa to turn HOF catcher into an outfielder).

 

Hi Duke/Alexei!

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