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White Sox have shown interest in Machado

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QUOTE (Jack Parkman @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 01:56 AM)
This is so stupid. Why? Kopech or Giolito? Seriously? With no guarantees that he re-signs? Again, there has to be a 72 hr window otherwise forget it. IMO trading either of those guys for Machado, with one year of control, when he is almost certainly going to test the open market is a fireable offense. I would hope that either Kenny or Jerry are grabbing Hahn by his tie and telling him if he even discussed them with the O's that his job is on the line. But this is the White Sox, so they do stupid things from time to time. If they pull a stunt of this proportion, I won't be going to nearly as many games this season. This is contradictory and bulls***.

I'm a bit shocked they'd even be in consideration for Machado given their rebuilding timeline. Why rush? Do they believe exclusively negotiating with him now is better than next offseason? It's a hell of a risk, and honestly they're going on his word -- "yeah sure I'll consider you guys. I promise." I'm not quite at your level of anger, but trading for Machado and not immediately signing him is a fireable offense. I won't tolerate a wait and see approach throughout the season, it'll be a constant distraction.

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Holy f*** I turned my phone off minutes before this all went down.

 

I’m just going to say this. If Kopech is involved in the deal, I think it’s a huge mistake for us. He has the potential to be BETTER than Machado (I know, I know best case outcome) and will only cost pennies over his 6+ years of control. And more importantly, we’ll never have a better opportunity to develop or acquire a legitimate ace than with him. Giving him up would be one step forward, one step back long-term.

 

Giolito is a little different of a story. I still wouldn’t be happy giving him up without an extension in place, but I’d be willing to give the front office the benefit of the doubt and see how their plan unfolds. I assume part of that plan includes keeping Abreu & Avi for the time being. Can’t really add Machado and then suddenly subtract your two best veterans. Would send a very negative message about when we expect to be competitive again. I also assume this plan includes adding a high profile veteran SP in free agency next year to replace Giolito. If so, there could be a larger strategy at play here and we’d need to see how it all lays out before saying trading Giolito was a mistake with any conviction.

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When does the Sox TV contract end? Don’t underestimate the value of adding a proven susperstar to a promising young core when negotiations begin.

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According to the Athletic article they can have one of Giolito, Kopech but not both.

 

This is pretty insane if it happens. I really don't know why they believe having him play there willl get him signed , and not lessens their chances. Money talks. If they think he will love,Ricky Renteria so much he will accept a lowball offer, they need to be replaced.

 

If you are going to make,us,sit through a rebuild, follow.theough, and come up with an offer next winter. If they do this and it fails, heads should roll.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:42 AM)
According to the Athletic article they can have one of Giolito, Kopech but not both.

 

This is pretty insane if it happens. I really don't know why they believe having him play there willl get him signed , and not lessens their chances. Money talks. If they think he will love,Ricky Renteria so much he will accept a lowball offer, they need to be replaced.

 

If you are going to make,us,sit through a rebuild, follow.theough, and come up with an offer next winter. If they do this and it fails, heads should roll.

 

Agreed with everything here. Not worth the risk.

 

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 03:42 AM)
According to the Athletic article they can have one of Giolito, Kopech but not both.

 

This is pretty insane if it happens. I really don't know why they believe having him play there willl get him signed , and not lessens their chances. Money talks. If they think he will love,Ricky Renteria so much he will accept a lowball offer, they need to be replaced.

 

If you are going to make,us,sit through a rebuild, follow.theough, and come up with an offer next winter. If they do this and it fails, heads should roll.

I think they have every intention of paying him commensurate with his market value. I just think they want a leg up in the competition, or more ideally, to avoid the competition entirely.

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Scott Merkin‏Verified account

@scottmerkin

4m4 minutes ago

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Manny Machado is an elite/high end talent who certainly can change a franchise. With that said, it's difficult to envision how the White Sox include Kopech or Giolito in any sort of potential trade and alter their strongly constructed rebuild course for one year of Machado.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:42 AM)
According to the Athletic article they can have one of Giolito, Kopech but not both.

 

This is pretty insane if it happens. I really don't know why they believe having him play there willl get him signed , and not lessens their chances. Money talks. If they think he will love,Ricky Renteria so much he will accept a lowball offer, they need to be replaced.

 

If you are going to make,us,sit through a rebuild, follow.theough, and come up with an offer next winter. If they do this and it fails, heads should roll.

Dick, the Sox only do this if they are willing to match any contract offer. Let’s just say that there are 10 teams all interested in signing the guy next offseason, including best-in-class, major market franchises like the Yankees & Dodgers. How do you convince Machado to sign with you instead of those clubs? If trading some assets improves your odds from

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:44 AM)
I think they have every intention of paying him commensurate with his market value. I just think they want a leg up in the competition, or more ideally, to avoid the competition entirely.

Exactly. This “why not wait to free agency when it will cost you nothing but money” is great until you realize we have a 5 to 10% chance of signing him. I appreciate the fact the front office realizes they must differentiate themselves from teams like the Yankees & Dodgers if they want to stand a reasonable chance. Again, just depends on the price (i.e. not Kopech) and what else they can do in the next 12 months to convince him to stay here long-term. Certainly there is value in having the upper hand here and they shouldn’t be afraid to give that up to the Orioles.

Edited by Chicago White Sox

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I was very confident going to bed we wouldn’t do something stupid and now I have lost that and am just at a loss. Trading Kopech for one year of Machado? What on earth could they be thinking. Please, please let this fall through.

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:44 AM)
I think they have every intention of paying him commensurate with his market value. I just think they want a leg up in the competition, or more ideally, to avoid the competition entirely.

 

But nobody knows what that market value is, not Machado, his agent, nor Harper or his agent. Do you know how you determine that market value? Competition. It he has held out this long, it makes zero sense to forgo the open market and sign a deal you hope is the most money.

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:44 AM)
I think they have every intention of paying him commensurate with his market value. I just think they want a leg up in the competition, or more ideally, to avoid the competition entirely.

If you're Machado's agent would you even advise your client to exclusively deal with one team when such record breaking money is on the line? I wouldn't. Whatever they're offering now, they'll offer next season; plus all the other big market teams. Let's think about it -- the only reason they'd do such a move is to snatch him up for less money. And by that I mean fair market value (which is unknown), not what some desperate team will throw out.

 

For trading Kopech and his potential, the small advantage of negotiating with Machado alone isn't worth it. If we have to play these games to win the sweapstakes then we're not serious contenders.

Edited by Flash Tizzle

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You know who just did a lot to differentiate themselves in a marketplace? The mariners with ohtani. Shiotinbfg ourselves in the foot really badly here.

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QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:47 AM)
Scott Merkin‏Verified account

@scottmerkin

4m4 minutes ago

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Manny Machado is an elite/high end talent who certainly can change a franchise. With that said, it's difficult to envision how the White Sox include Kopech or Giolito in any sort of potential trade and alter their strongly constructed rebuild course for one year of Machado.

I take this as a good sign that these guys aren’t in the trade. Still don’t see how we have a “leading offer”’without one of Kopech, Giolito, Lopez, Rodon, or Hansen in the mix.

 

So question for Soxtalk, who would you rather give up as the centerpiece in a trade for Machado: Rodon, Lopez, or Hansen?

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:11 AM)
I take this as a good sign that these guys aren’t in the trade. Still don’t see how we have a “leading offer”’without one of Kopech, Giolito, Lopez, Rodon, or Hansen in the mix.

 

So question for Soxtalk, who would you rather give up as the centerpiece in a trade for Machado: Rodon, Lopez, or Hansen?

 

Thats tough but at this point, probably Rodon.

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QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:13 AM)
Thats tough but at this point, probably Rodon.

Maybe Rodon and Anderson

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QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 04:08 AM)
You know who just did a lot to differentiate themselves in a marketplace? The mariners with ohtani. Shiotinbfg ourselves in the foot really badly here.

Yeah, that’s the only chance you have when you are competing against some of the other attractive organizations though.

 

I agree that risks need to be calculated, but would you prefer they not even try?

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Hypothetical question: whats the most you'd give up with an extension window? 2 arms and Burger (as he wouldn't really be needed)?

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:06 AM)
But nobody knows what that market value is, not Machado, his agent, nor Harper or his agent. Do you know how you determine that market value? Competition. It he has held out this long, it makes zero sense to forgo the open market and sign a deal you hope is the most money.

Again, this isn’t necessarily about signing him to an extension now. More likely it’s about giving us an edge when 10 teams all offer him the same basic contract next offseason give or take. If he enjoys his time here and we offer the same money as everyone else, we’d theoretically have an advantage. I’m pretty sure that’s the entire premise behind this type of deal. Obviously you’d still have 10 months to negotiate in the interim, but I think it’s all but a certainty Machado will test free agency to ensure market value.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:08 AM)
You know who just did a lot to differentiate themselves in a marketplace? The mariners with ohtani. Shiotinbfg ourselves in the foot really badly here.

 

Shiotinbfg sounds painful

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Also didnsome research earlier and saw that Manny has always been open to an extension with the O's but they were just far apart in negotiations. Not like other cases where you hear said player doesn't want to talk extension and intends on going to free agency.

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:16 AM)
Shiotinbfg sounds painful

 

Kyyihgnke, you have no idea.

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I would do Lopez and Fulmer for Machado, I think having first dibs to pay him is easier than selling him on a up and coming team with no attachment to here.

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If they get him, I think they would do what it takes to extend him before the start of the season. I'm nervous about the risk though.

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 04:06 AM)
But nobody knows what that market value is, not Machado, his agent, nor Harper or his agent. Do you know how you determine that market value? Competition. It he has held out this long, it makes zero sense to forgo the open market and sign a deal you hope is the most money.

I mean you are right...you can’t know until the offers come in, but it isn’t like there are no cues to go off of.

 

Again, even if we let him go to FA, our money is still green too, you know. It might be more comforting for the guy to know he’ll be in an organization that he likes AND be insanely wealthy instead of just one of those two things.

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