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White Sox have shown interest in Machado

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:56 PM)
They have some decent players. How does Avi, Fulmer, Cease make them playoff contenders in a couple of years? They are pretty much screwed right now. Their best chance at actually winning the next 5 years is keeping Machado this year, and hoping everything goes right. Once he is gone, so is all hope in Baltimore for a long while.

 

The return for Machado that makes them playoff contenders in a year or two doesn't exist. If they're smart, they take what they can get while they can get it so they're not left holding the 2nd round comp pick bag.

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QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:59 PM)
Watch this end up being a situation like the Samardzija deal where people were freaking out we dealt Anderson and it turned out to be more about wuantity than quality. Watch a deal somehow center around Stephens and Adams while everyone else is intact.

And that deal wound up costing us 1 quality starting IF and everyone insisted we'd be able to trade him at the deadline and then we couldn't get anything of use back for him after his terrible July and then everyone loved the draft pick and it wound up being a guy down for TJS.

 

This is what we call learning from history.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:01 PM)
And that deal wound up costing us 1 quality starting IF and everyone insisted we'd be able to trade him at the deadline and then we couldn't get anything of use back for him after his terrible July and then everyone loved the draft pick and it wound up being a guy down for TJS.

 

This is what we call learning from history.

 

That's actually not true. Hahn already said he wanted to rebuild but they decided to make a push for the playoffs.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:43 PM)
Because they play them 18 or 19 times. It is very understandable. If the White Sox word isn't good enough, then it won't happen. Probably won't happen anyway. There has to be at least one top guy in the package or it makes no sense for Baltimore.

It's not understandable at all. You said yourself that there's not going to be an extension(which I completely agree with) and with out Machado they aren't going to be competing so why the heck wouldn't you just get the best possible pacakge?

 

EDIT: For the record, my post is solely about Baltimore not wanting to trade him to the Yankees.

Edited by Rowand44

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QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:40 PM)
Many seem to have not read the article as Nightengale said there's no chance the Sox would actually give Manny a huge contract

Come on man, are you really taking that as gospel? The Sox would NEVER leak that to Bob f***ing Nightengale if true. And no other team would have a clue on how much the Sox would really be willing to spend on Machado.

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QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:03 PM)
That's actually not true. Hahn already said he wanted to rebuild but they decided to make a push for the playoffs.

And that worked out great too! His logic was so solid, "If we keep playing like this we'll be right there in the end" was an almost verbatim quote from him in early July of 2015.

 

See the problem yet? All of this "There's no downside" talk ignores the downside we watched happen for a lesser player. He got terrible offers for the guy and talked himself into the idea that his team could compete because they had a good 8 game stretch and got back to .500 in early July.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 12:05 AM)
And that worked out great too! His logic was so solid, "If we keep playing like this we'll be right there in the end" was an almost verbatim quote from him in early July of 2015.

 

See the problem yet? All of this "There's no downside" talk ignores the downside we watched happen for a lesser player. He got terrible offers for the guy and talked himself into the idea that his team could compete because they had a good 8 game stretch and got back to .500 in early July.

 

Who also had way more of a connection to the Sox

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I thought more about this and I think I see what Hahn is trying to do now when he's talking about taking risk. It's probably Fulmer and Cease/Dunning thinking that they can recoup at least half that up to the equivalent amount of value at the trade deadline if they can't extend him. Meanwhile they get 6 months or so to try to get him to sign an extension. It's basically a free call option. And if they can't sign him before the trade deadline they now know they have to pursue a different path in the next offseason. As long as our best prospects aren't involved I don't see much problem with it if this is how he is looking at it. To be clear I don't think they will be able to extend him but you never know.

 

Orioles have to get something for him since he will be gone either way. If they are that worried about us flipping him to the Yanks they should hold onto him until the trade deadline.

Edited by soxforlife05

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QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:59 PM)
Sale trade was fair, no complains there

 

agreed...none whatsoever. In 3 years it'll look like shear brilliance IMO....

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QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:56 PM)
The O's are fairly pathetic. Why worry about what the Yankees will do? Maybe we trade him at the deadline. So beat them. Isnt that what this sport is about?

 

It's actually more funny to look at it from the perspective that even the Orioles question the wisdom of a Machado move for the Whitesox and are looking for ulterior motives

Edited by wrathofhahn

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QUOTE (wrathofhahn @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 12:14 AM)
It's actually more funny to look at it from the perspective that even the Orioles question the wisdom of a Machado move for the Whitesox and are looking at it from other angles.

 

As DA said, they know Manny would never sign an extension before season ends

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:56 PM)
They have some decent players. How does Avi, Fulmer, Cease make them playoff contenders in a couple of years? They are pretty much screwed right now. Their best chance at actually winning the next 5 years is keeping Machado this year, and hoping everything goes right. Once he is gone, so is all hope in Baltimore for a long while.

Come on man, the Orioles aren’t making the playoffs this year with or without Machado. Their only choices are dealing him now for the best offer received or hope he can bring back more at the deadline. Either way, whatever they receive won’t put them back in the playoffs in a couple years. They f***ed themselves significantly by not selling a year or two ago.

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QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:16 PM)
As DA said, they know Manny would never sign an extension before season ends

Yeah how many players get this close to free agency and then blow it off? It would be like training for a year to run the marathon and quitting 50 yards from the finish.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:18 PM)
Yeah how many players get this close to free agency and then blow it off? It would be like training for a year to run the marathon and quitting 50 yards from the finish.

I’m sure he may if they offered 10 for $400 million. $$ always talks but I agree. He’s got a rare chance at such a young age. Too good to pass up.

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QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:59 PM)
Sale trade was fair, no complains there

ChrisnfreakingSale should have gotten at least 3 real prospects, we got two. Face it, DD hoodwinked RH when he added Diaz and Basabe. It's over, who cares. I was just sticking up for Balta.

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QUOTE (oldsox @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:23 PM)
ChrisnfreakingSale should have gotten at least 3 real prospects, we got two. Face it, DD hoodwinked RH when he added Diaz and Basabe. It's over, who cares. I was just sticking up for Balta.

This is such an awful opinion.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:18 PM)
Yeah how many players get this close to free agency and then blow it off? It would be like training for a year to run the marathon and quitting 50 yards from the finish.

 

Completely agree with you. Which is why I don't understand why we are interested unless we get a window to complete an extension before any trade is finalized. Maybe they have intel that he would sign a deal that met his asking price.

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:17 PM)
Come on man, the Orioles aren’t making the playoffs this year with or without Machado. Their only choices are dealing him now for the best offer received or hope he can bring back more at the deadline. Either way, whatever they receive won’t put them back in the playoffs in a couple years. They f***ed themselves significantly by not selling a year or two ago.

Their best chance is with him on the team. It probably still isn't good enough but, if I were their GM, I am not taking back a half assed package back for him at this point. They need to admit that they are basically playing for 3rd place for the foreseeable future, but maybe if they kept him everything would go right and some how they make a run this year. If not, keep him until the deadline. A contender adding him then changes things, and even if it is for a couple of months, would be worth a top prospect if it got you where everyone wants to go.

 

Right now, Cease, Dunning, Fulmer...those guys aren't game changers. They aren't going to make the Orioles Not be mediocre at best. So,e team will eventually give you a top prospect for him. I am actually amazed no team seems to have offered that yet if the new reports are true.

Edited by Dick Allen

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QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:08 PM)
I thought more about this and I think I see what Hahn is trying to do now when he's talking about taking risk. It's probably Fulmer and Cease/Dunning thinking that they can recoup at least half that up to the equivalent amount of value at the trade deadline if they can't extend him. Meanwhile they get 6 months or so to try to get him to sign an extension. It's basically a free call option. And if they can't sign him before the trade deadline they now know they have to pursue a different path in the next offseason. As long as our best prospects aren't involved I don't see much problem with it if this is how he is looking at it. To be clear I don't think they will be able to extend him but you never know.

 

Orioles have to get something for him since he will be gone either way. If they are that worried about us flipping him to the Yanks they should hold onto him until the trade deadline.

That’s how I’m processing this all as well.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:25 PM)
Right now, Cease, Dunning, Fulmer...those guys aren't game changers. They aren't going to make the Orioles Not be mediocre at best. So,e team will eventually give you a top prospect for him. I am actually amazed no team seems to have offered that yet if the new reports are true.

 

I'm sure the Yankees have the best offer but they won't move him there.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:25 PM)
Their best chance is with him on the team. It probably still isn't good enough but, if I were their GM, I am not taking back a half assed package back for him at this point. They need to admit that they are basically playing for 3rd place for the foreseeable future, but maybe if they kept him everything would go right and some how they make a run this year. If not, keep him until the deadline. A contender adding him then changes things, and even if it is for a couple of months, would be worth a top prospect if it got you where everyone wants to go.

 

Right now, Cease, Dunning, Fulmer...those guys aren't game changers. They aren't going to make the Orioles Not be mediocre at best. So,e team will eventually give you a top prospect for him. I am actually amazed no team seems to have offered that yet if the new reports are true.

Cease has TOR potential and Dunning & Fulmer are former 1st round picks with upside. Cease is probably in the 75 to 90 prospect range overall, Dunning in the 90 to 110 range, and Fulmer somewhere in the top 150. I’m not sure I’d pass on a Cease+Dunning offer if I was the Orioles and that was the best offer received right now. Trading Machado allows the rest of the dominoes to fall. The longer they wait, the less they’ll get for their other guys.

 

I already asked this, but what team do you think will give up a top prospect for one year of Manny Machado?

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:35 PM)
Cease has TOR potential and Dunning & Fulmer are former 1st round picks with upside. Cease is probably in the 75 to 90 prospect range overall, Dunning in the 90 to 110 range, and Fulmer somewhere in the top 150. I’m not sure I’d pass on a Cease+Dunning offer if I was the Orioles and that was the best offer received right now. Trading Machado allows the rest of the dominoes to fall. The longer they wait, the less they’ll get for their other guys.

 

I already asked this, but what team do you think will give up a top prospect for one year of Manny Machado?

At the deadline, it could be anybody. An injury here an injury there, an unexpected contending season...The Cubs gave up a pretty good one for a guy who fires shots at his female companion closer in 2016.They could have had him for a fraction of the price before the season started..

 

Manny Machado changes your team for the better instantly.

 

If you were an Oriole fan, would you really be happy with the return you mentioned for Manny Machado?

Edited by Dick Allen

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QUOTE (oldsox @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:23 PM)
ChrisnfreakingSale should have gotten at least 3 real prospects, we got two. Face it, DD hoodwinked RH when he added Diaz and Basabe. It's over, who cares. I was just sticking up for Balta.

 

 

We got the top position and pitching prospects in baseball. What were you really expecting back?

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They don't have a choice. He's a rental whose value is reduced because it's pretty much the consensus with 95% of people on here he's testing free agency. Pretty sure everyone else knows that too. He actually might have more value at the trade deadline than he does this offseason.

Edited by soxforlife05

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I'm surprised the Indians aren't one of the top suitors. Hell, they were running out Urshela at 3B at the end of last season and their window is closing soon.

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