2018 Democrats thread

[southsider2k5]

23 minutes ago, Reddy said:

Because supporting non-Berniecrats =/= being a corporatist. I'm not. At all. I want politicians who have a prayer of getting elected (progressives have shown they have a tough time with this) and thus have a shot at actually implementing policy that will help people. I'm pragmatic.

Your use of buzzwords to denigrate people who disagree with you is why your cause is losing.

You did not just post this last paragraph,  when you use the term Bernie Bro on a regular basis. 

[Dam8610]

41 minutes ago, Reddy said:

Boom.

Yes, poverty affects 10%+ of the population, police brutality affects less than 1% of the population. "Boom", indeed.

[Dam8610]

41 minutes ago, Reddy said:

Because supporting non-Berniecrats =/= being a corporatist. I'm not. At all. I want politicians who have a prayer of getting elected (progressives have shown they have a tough time with this) and thus have a shot at actually implementing policy that will help people. I'm pragmatic.

Your use of buzzwords to denigrate people who disagree with you is why your cause is losing.

MY use of buzzwords is the problem? This, from Mr. Bernie Bro? Oh, the irony.

[caulfield12]

We can start to ascertain who’s winning and losing between progressives and centrists/moderates when we come out of the recession that’s about to hit in 2019-20.

At some point, Dems will have to decide how hard they’re willing to fight to preserve Social Security and Medicare.  The GOP will happily cut back those programs 15-25% and refer to them as entitlements rather than benefits earned.

And it’s not just corporate tax cuts, cuts for the Top 1-2%, it’s that 10% increase in the defense budgets that’s being used as one of the rationales for cutting back on social programs.  Of course, the category of corporations/corporatist also include major defense contractors.

 

 

Edited September 16, 2018 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

The Democratic Party Is Changing Forever. New York Just Showed Us How.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/democratic-party-changing-forever-york-002352909.html

 

 

[Reddy]

16 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

We can start to ascertain who’s winning and losing between progressives and centrists/moderates when we come out of the recession that’s about to hit in 2019-20.

At some point, Dems will have to decide how hard they’re willing to fight to preserve Social Security and Medicare.  The GOP will happily cut back those programs 15-25% and refer to them as entitlements rather than benefits earned.

And it’s not just corporate tax cuts, cuts for the Top 1-2%, it’s that 10% increase in the defense budgets that’s being used as one of the rationales for cutting back on social programs.  Of course, the category of corporations/corporatist also include major defense contractors.

 

 

2

You, you know that's what Dems are running on this cycle, right?

[Reddy]

16 hours ago, Dam8610 said:

MY use of buzzwords is the problem? This, from Mr. Bernie Bro? Oh, the irony.

Eh, maybe a little ironic I'll grant you. But I'm *not* a corporatist, while you definitely *are* a Bernie Bro that just said that police brutality isn't an issue in this country. So maybe that's the distinction. 

[southsider2k5]

4 hours ago, Reddy said:

Eh, maybe a little ironic I'll grant you. But I'm *not* a corporatist, while you definitely *are* a Bernie Bro that just said that police brutality isn't an issue in this country. So maybe that's the distinction. 

This is Trumpesque in its attempt to both be the bully and the victim in the same response.

[Dam8610]

7 hours ago, Reddy said:

Eh, maybe a little ironic I'll grant you. But I'm *not* a corporatist, while you definitely *are* a Bernie Bro that just said that police brutality isn't an issue in this country. So maybe that's the distinction. 

If you read what I said and that's what you took from it, you need some serious work on your reading comprehension.

ETA: To put it in very simple terms that even Reddy should understand, what I said was that poverty is a problem that affects way more of the population than police brutality. To be extremely clear, that does not mean I am saying police brutality isn't a problem (it is an extremely bad problem). What I said does mean (which is factually true) is that, by population, poverty is a problem that affects at least 10 times as many people. Perhaps we should solve the bigger problem first.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Dam8610

[Reddy]

5 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is Trumpesque in its attempt to both be the bully and the victim in the same response.

Thank you for your thoughtful and unbiased analysis per usual ❤️ 

[Reddy]

5 hours ago, Dam8610 said:

If you read what I said and that's what you took from it, you need some serious work on your reading comprehension.

ETA: To put it in very simple terms that even Reddy should understand, what I said was that poverty is a problem that affects way more of the population than police brutality. To be extremely clear, that does not mean I am saying police brutality isn't a problem (it is an extremely bad problem). What I said does mean (which is factually true) is that, by population, poverty is a problem that affects at least 10 times as many people. Perhaps we should solve the bigger problem first.

As with Bernie, when you have to reframe and defend yourself after putting your foot in your mouth regarding issues that affect minorities, you should not find it odd that they don't support you or your candidates.

[Dam8610]

1 hour ago, Reddy said:

As with Bernie, when you have to reframe and defend yourself after putting your foot in your mouth regarding issues that affect minorities, you should not find it odd that they don't support you or your candidates.

So poverty doesn't (extremely disproportionately, might I add) affect minorities, now? I didn't have to "reframe" anything, I had to spell it out for you because you were being intentionally obtuse.

[StrangeSox]

 

[southsider2k5]

So we are back to leaked files being OK again.

[StrangeSox]

It'll be interesting to see exactly what wikileak's response is here because of how they constantly defend their method of just dumping everything with zero curration or protection for innocent people.

Leaked filed are, in general, good imo. How wikileaks goes about it is bad, and their potential underlying motives also bring into question whether they're just an information clearing house for others.

[bmags]

The why is this happening podcast (chris hayes) with Sean McElwee was very good.

I listened to it on sunday and can't stop thinking about it.

some main thoughts:

1) It is hard having lived through it to communicate how much more default conservative culture/media/politics was through the Bush era

but

2) It is equally hard to know whether that experience is at all relevant as guidance moving forward.

McElwee's thoughts on comparing the left to the tea party were really interesting and probably more accurate than cw on it. The tea party surge of 10-12 is one of those things where I'm not sure we get an accurate account of it for years until a talented historian can find the thread.

[Reddy]

Dam, if you're interested, this is a podcast I'm a guest on where we talk about the liberal vs. progressive rift, and how arguments on the internet exacerbate the problem. It's pretty cool.

Jabari is a friend who ran for NY City Council as a Green candidate as an open socialist. I'm, well, not that. We had lots of internet arguments in '15 and '16 that led to unfriending, and Dylan Marron got us together to talk in person instead of online. If you're interested in understanding me better, give it a listen. If not, that's ok, too.
 

 

[Dam8610]

11 hours ago, Reddy said:

Dam, if you're interested, this is a podcast I'm a guest on where we talk about the liberal vs. progressive rift, and how arguments on the internet exacerbate the problem. It's pretty cool.

Jabari is a friend who ran for NY City Council as a Green candidate as an open socialist. I'm, well, not that. We had lots of internet arguments in '15 and '16 that led to unfriending, and Dylan Marron got us together to talk in person instead of online. If you're interested in understanding me better, give it a listen. If not, that's ok, too.
 

 

I listened to it. I was surprised to hear you admit that Trump is the catalyst for the good that is the progressive backlash and even somewhat of an ideology shift we've seen in our country since November 2016. The main thing I have difficulty reconciling in the ideology you espouse is the contradictory nature of it. You say in that podcast and here that you agree from a policy perspective with people like Jabari and I, yet I haven't seen a single politician with the policy platform you claim you support endorsed or supported by you while simultaneously you endorse or support several politicians with policy platforms that are far more conservative, authoritarian, and in service of special interests than the policies you say you support. You say in the podcast that you didn't want Trump because of the greater amount of suffering that would happen to a larger amount of people, yet you seem here to have no problem with the suffering caused to so much of the country's population by poverty and choose instead to focus on the problem of police brutality which affects a significantly smaller portion of the population. You say on the podcast that you think people like yourself and Jabari should find ways to work together, yet you constantly use intentionally divisive rhetoric (i.e. constantly implying that I'm a racist because our policy priorities differ) that indicates a lack of willingness to even consider the validity of the other viewpoint. Did you call Jabari a racist who didn't understand how to communicate to minority communities on Facebook? Because he seems to share a lot of my viewpoints despite being one of the minorities you so often eagerly tell me are uninterested in my ideology.

[Reddy]

10 hours ago, Dam8610 said:

I listened to it. I was surprised to hear you admit that Trump is the catalyst for the good that is the progressive backlash and even somewhat of an ideology shift we've seen in our country since November 2016. The main thing I have difficulty reconciling in the ideology you espouse is the contradictory nature of it. You say in that podcast and here that you agree from a policy perspective with people like Jabari and I, yet I haven't seen a single politician with the policy platform you claim you support endorsed or supported by you while simultaneously you endorse or support several politicians with policy platforms that are far more conservative, authoritarian, and in service of special interests than the policies you say you support. You say in the podcast that you didn't want Trump because of the greater amount of suffering that would happen to a larger amount of people, yet you seem here to have no problem with the suffering caused to so much of the country's population by poverty and choose instead to focus on the problem of police brutality which affects a significantly smaller portion of the population. You say on the podcast that you think people like yourself and Jabari should find ways to work together, yet you constantly use intentionally divisive rhetoric (i.e. constantly implying that I'm a racist because our policy priorities differ) that indicates a lack of willingness to even consider the validity of the other viewpoint. Did you call Jabari a racist who didn't understand how to communicate to minority communities on Facebook? Because he seems to share a lot of my viewpoints despite being one of the minorities you so often eagerly tell me are uninterested in my ideology.

Maybe we're so obsessed with beating/hating on each other that we're not actually listening to each other.

[Reddy]

And as far as my "endorsements", who am I actually *working* for right now?

[The Beast]

Question - What exactly is a Bernie Bro?

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, The Beast said:

Question - What exactly is a Bernie Bro?

It is what people who "listen" call the left wing of the party who supported Sanders and continues to do so this day.

[Dam8610]

3 hours ago, The Beast said:

Question - What exactly is a Bernie Bro?

A figment of the Hillary Clinton campaign's imagination. In their twisted worldview, a "Bernie Bro" is a white male millennial who doesn't care about racial issues. In reality this was nothing more than a smear campaign by the Clinton campaign toward Bernie supporters. Then they were flabbergasted by the fact that we weren't "with her" when she stole the nomination. Gee, I wonder why the "You're all terrible people, now vote for me" strategy didn't work.

[Reddy]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

It is what people who "listen" call the left wing of the party who supported Sanders and continues to do so this day.

Nope. It's someone who fell into the Bernie or Bust category. That's it. If you voted HRC and understand that sometimes the greater good is more important than your personal ideology, then you don't fall into that category. It's a specific type of Bernie supporter.

[Reddy]

If they were figments how come I've met so many of them? Huh.