Cold Stove - Free Agents Still on the table

[he gone.]

We are now, what ..? A week from pitchers and catchers reporting?

 

I think we've kind of all come to the consensus that we'd rather sit this FA out and let the kids play and figure out what we have. I am in this consensus after swaying a bit.

 

 

With the Sox having a hole at 3B for basically 15 years minus a few years of Crede -- and then somewhat with Frazier.. would you CONSIDER taking on Moustakas if you could get him at 4 years and $40-48mm?

 

Listen, I'm not even a Mous fan, I am just asking the temperature to a deal like that. A guy who you could lock up from age 29-33 and hits 30HR a year. The interested parties have dwindled QUICKLY, and if there is someone you can get for a big, big discount I think it's him.

 

 

I personally would consider under these circumstances.

 

- a deal that is at least 3 years, but not longer than 4 years.

- a deal that has an AAV of no more than $12mm, but hopefully closer to $10mm

- a deal that doesn't have any opt out (we don't need him at all in year 1, and probably year 2)

 

I consider this because of our history at 3b, that if you don't truly believe in BUrger sticking at 3B, and with the consideration that this doesn't preclude you from going after Machado and putting him at SS. (Figure out Anderson later)

[he gone.]

We are now, what ..? A week from pitchers and catchers reporting?

 

I think we've kind of all come to the consensus that we'd rather sit this FA out and let the kids play and figure out what we have. I am in this consensus after swaying a bit.

 

 

With the Sox having a hole at 3B for basically 15 years minus a few years of Crede -- and then somewhat with Frazier.. would you CONSIDER taking on Moustakas if you could get him at 4 years and $40-48mm?

 

Listen, I'm not even a Mous fan, I am just asking the temperature to a deal like that. A guy who you could lock up from age 29-33 and hits 30HR a year. The interested parties have dwindled QUICKLY, and if there is someone you can get for a big, big discount I think it's him.

 

 

I personally would consider under these circumstances.

 

- a deal that is at least 3 years, but not longer than 4 years.

- a deal that has an AAV of no more than $12mm, but hopefully closer to $10mm

- a deal that doesn't have any opt out (we don't need him at all in year 1, and probably year 2)

 

I consider this because of our history at 3b, that if you don't truly believe in BUrger sticking at 3B, and with the consideration that this doesn't preclude you from going after Machado and putting him at SS. (Figure out Anderson later)

 

 

I just read Boras represents him. So don't see any of this happening. If I had my prediction I'll say he signs a pillow contract... maybe a 2-3 year deal with an out after year one. I'll call $13mm a year.

 

[Balta1701]

I continue to dislike the concept and will respond with "play the kids" under any and all circumstances. Put Sanchez at 3b this year and let's see what he's got.

 

To do this right, we have to rebuild for 1 more year. That's all we have to do, keep the powder dry for 1 more year, play the kids, and don't get distracted from the main goal.

[iWiN4PreP]

Absolutely we should sign Mike M if his price is low enough and its 3-4 years.

[southsider2k5]

At 4/48 you take a chance on him, and adjust in a year or two if get someone making a push.

[iWiN4PreP]

Hm.. just read a few articles on him... a lot of stats seem to say that mous is pretty average overall and isn't destined to age well. It's a tough spot.. if the money is low enough... go for it, but it'd have to be a pretty good deal. Maybe only slightly better than Frazier's.

[he gone.]

I continue to dislike the concept and will respond with "play the kids" under any and all circumstances. Put Sanchez at 3b this year and let's see what he's got.

 

To do this right, we have to rebuild for 1 more year. That's all we have to do, keep the powder dry for 1 more year, play the kids, and don't get distracted from the main goal.

 

I get this, but at the same time ... dry powder this year might be a hell of a lot cheaper. I feel like teams have saved their cash for next years' FA market. So maybe for a complete guessing game.....

 

What do you think Moustakas gets on the market next year if he takes a pillow contract this year?

 

Maybe next year he gets the 5 year deal at like $75mm (15mm average). If that's the case, I don't see the issue of taking a shot at 4yr/44mm this year when the Sox have been historically really bad at plugging 3B.

 

My other issue is I really don't trust Yolmer -- and that's coming from a really pro-Yolmer guy since like 2015 (also coincidentally after his best year in the majors). Yolmer types are better suited as super utilities or as #9 guys on teams. You can have one MAYBE two yolmer type guys on your team as starters if you're really actually serious about playing for a championship. (This is where WAR arguments are always brought up -- I get he had a good WAR last year)

[Bob Sacamano]

I get this, but at the same time ... dry powder this year might be a hell of a lot cheaper. I feel like teams have saved their cash for next years' FA market. So maybe for a complete guessing game.....

 

What do you think Moustakas gets on the market next year if he takes a pillow contract this year?

 

Maybe next year he gets the 5 year deal at like $75mm (15mm average). If that's the case, I don't see the issue of taking a shot at 4yr/44mm this year when the Sox have been historically really bad at plugging 3B.

 

My other issue is I really don't trust Yolmer -- and that's coming from a really pro-Yolmer guy since like 2015 (also coincidentally after his best year in the majors). Yolmer types are better suited as super utilities or as #9 guys on teams. You can have one MAYBE two yolmer type guys on your team as starters if you're really actually serious about playing for a championship. (This is where WAR arguments are always brought up -- I get he had a good WAR last year)

 

If he goes back into free agency a year, he would be consolation prize to those teams who need a 3B and didn't sign one of Machado and Donaldson. And if he takes a 2 year deal, he's a consolation prize for anyone who doesn't sign Arenado.

Edited February 6, 2018 by soxfan2014

[he gone.]

If he goes back into free agency a year, he would be consolation prize to those teams who need a 3B and didn't sign one of Machado and Donaldson. And if he takes a 2 year deal, he's a consolation prize for anyone who doesn't sign Arenado.

 

aka, us next year or the year after....

 

I love me some White Sox and I want to believe in Machado or Arenado, I'm just not hopeful.

[Bob Sacamano]

aka, us next year or the year after....

 

I love me some White Sox and I want to believe in Machado or Arenado, I'm just not hopeful.

 

Same.

[BlackSox13]

Thanks but no thanks on Moustakas. Rather keep the draft pick and take my chances with Yolmer while praying Burger sticks at 3rd.

[Bob Sacamano]

Doing a little more thinking about it, if his price comes down enough, the Orioles could actually be a fit with Machado moving to SS. Beckham could move back into a bench role.

[Eminor3rd]

We are now, what ..? A week from pitchers and catchers reporting?

 

I think we've kind of all come to the consensus that we'd rather sit this FA out and let the kids play and figure out what we have. I am in this consensus after swaying a bit.

 

 

With the Sox having a hole at 3B for basically 15 years minus a few years of Crede -- and then somewhat with Frazier.. would you CONSIDER taking on Moustakas if you could get him at 4 years and $40-48mm?

 

Listen, I'm not even a Mous fan, I am just asking the temperature to a deal like that. A guy who you could lock up from age 29-33 and hits 30HR a year. The interested parties have dwindled QUICKLY, and if there is someone you can get for a big, big discount I think it's him.

 

 

I personally would consider under these circumstances.

 

- a deal that is at least 3 years, but not longer than 4 years.

- a deal that has an AAV of no more than $12mm, but hopefully closer to $10mm

- a deal that doesn't have any opt out (we don't need him at all in year 1, and probably year 2)

 

I consider this because of our history at 3b, that if you don't truly believe in BUrger sticking at 3B, and with the consideration that this doesn't preclude you from going after Machado and putting him at SS. (Figure out Anderson later)

 

I think with ALL of the top 10-15 or so free agents, there is a place where the price gets low enough that it makes sense. However, I think that the price that makes sense for the White Sox is lower than the price it makes sense for a bunch of other teams. So you're right in theory, but I don't think these guys will practically fall down to us.

 

Also, it sounds like Boras/MLBPA seem to be dead set on forcing a strike rather than accepting that this free agent class is simply weaker than average and they just aren't going to demand the same type of salaries as recent classes. There seem to be multiple reports saying that Hosmer has two 7yr/120-140mm offers on the table, but Boras is holding out for 10 years. Darvish has multiple 5yr offers on the table, but he's holding out to see if the Dodgers will clear space for him. Martinez has a 5yr/100-125m offer from Boston on the table, but he wants 200m. So I fail to see how this is the teams' fault -- these guys have very reasonable offers, they're just insisting on being treated like superstars instead of the flawed-but-above-average players that they are, simply because there aren't any true superstars available. As such, the Moustakas'-tier player is left holding the bag because no one is shopping down there until the top guys sign. I think a guy like Moustakas will just take the opportunity side with the union in their publicity stunt rather than settle for a pillow contract.

 

IMO, this is a bold, all-in push by the players to gain ground in a year where they really don't have a lot to justify the gain. They're doing this to themselves. Let's see if no one is willing to pay up for the generational talents next year before we start yelling for collusion.

Edited February 6, 2018 by Eminor3rd

[zisk]

I get this, but at the same time ... dry powder this year might be a hell of a lot cheaper. I feel like teams have saved their cash for next years' FA market. So maybe for a complete guessing game.....

 

What do you think Moustakas gets on the market next year if he takes a pillow contract this year?

 

Maybe next year he gets the 5 year deal at like $75mm (15mm average). If that's the case, I don't see the issue of taking a shot at 4yr/44mm this year when the Sox have been historically really bad at plugging 3B.

 

My other issue is I really don't trust Yolmer -- and that's coming from a really pro-Yolmer guy since like 2015 (also coincidentally after his best year in the majors). Yolmer types are better suited as super utilities or as #9 guys on teams. You can have one MAYBE two yolmer type guys on your team as starters if you're really actually serious about playing for a championship. (This is where WAR arguments are always brought up -- I get he had a good WAR last year)

 

If Yolmer were playing 2b he really wouldn't be a marginal starter. He's only 25 and has gold glove defense. I'll bet he doesn't hit 12 HRs again

 

but it wouldn't surprise me if he flirts with a .300 average and .750 OPS. His best 4-5 years are coming right now.

[knightni]

Absolutely we should sign Mike M if his price is low enough and its 3-4 years.

If you don't mind the loss of draft pick.

[southsider2k5]

If you don't mind the loss of draft pick.

 

I thought under $50 million you don't lose a pick anymore?

[Balta1701]

I get this, but at the same time ... dry powder this year might be a hell of a lot cheaper. I feel like teams have saved their cash for next years' FA market. So maybe for a complete guessing game.....

 

What do you think Moustakas gets on the market next year if he takes a pillow contract this year?

 

Maybe next year he gets the 5 year deal at like $75mm (15mm average). If that's the case, I don't see the issue of taking a shot at 4yr/44mm this year when the Sox have been historically really bad at plugging 3B.

 

My other issue is I really don't trust Yolmer -- and that's coming from a really pro-Yolmer guy since like 2015 (also coincidentally after his best year in the majors). Yolmer types are better suited as super utilities or as #9 guys on teams. You can have one MAYBE two yolmer type guys on your team as starters if you're really actually serious about playing for a championship. (This is where WAR arguments are always brought up -- I get he had a good WAR last year)

I think it's totally fine to not trust Yolmer. I'm not sure I trust him as a starter this year or long term either. That's why it's so important to play the kids this year. We have to develop these guys as much as we can, and then go into next offseason with the most amount of money available to cover the fewest possible needs we have remaining. If I'm going to trust him to fill a need, I want him to earn my trust.

 

Some of those needs, FWIW, will also likely be on the bench. Even if Yolmer isn't a starter, if he can handle himself as a 2 win player who has excellent defense and is a bat and pinch runner off the bench, that's an extremely valuable role. For example, the Astros this year got really really big innings, games, and seasons from Marwin Gonzalez and Jake Marisnick. When Correa got hurt, they didn't have to make a trade to cover that position for 6 weeks and losing an MVP caliber short stop didn't derail their season because they were getting solid bench contributions and that was enough to keep their lineup running. Even if all Yolmer can do is be a good backup, if we get cheap backups out of Leury, Yolmer, and someone like Cordell, that's a huge win! That's "we no longer have to sign Jeff Keppinger and Emilio Bonifacio" territory.

 

That's what we need to do this season. Play the kids, don't get distracted by shiny new toys. Play the kids, get them ready to go, and then go into next offseason ready to do literally anything you want.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

Thanks but no thanks on Moustakas. Rather keep the draft pick and take my chances with Yolmer while praying Burger sticks at 3rd.

 

Same here. Sox need to make the most of this upcoming draft.

[SCCWS]

We are now, what ..? A week from pitchers and catchers reporting?

 

I think we've kind of all come to the consensus that we'd rather sit this FA out and let the kids play and figure out what we have. I am in this consensus after swaying a bit.

 

 

With the Sox having a hole at 3B for basically 15 years minus a few years of Crede -- and then somewhat with Frazier.. would you CONSIDER taking on Moustakas if you could get him at 4 years and $40-48mm?

Listen, I'm not even a Mous fan, I am just asking the temperature to a deal like that. A guy who you could lock up from age 29-33 and hits 30HR a year. The interested parties have dwindled QUICKLY, and if there is someone you can get for a big, big discount I think it's him.

 

 

I personally would consider under these circumstances.

 

- a deal that is at least 3 years, but not longer than 4 years.

- a deal that has an AAV of no more than $12mm, but hopefully closer to $10mm

- a deal that doesn't have any opt out (we don't need him at all in year 1, and probably year 2)

 

I consider this because of our history at 3b, that if you don't truly believe in BUrger sticking at 3B, and with the consideration that this doesn't preclude you from going after Machado and putting him at SS. (Figure out Anderson later)

 

 

Did you miss the Rondon signing? Signing Mous would create a wild training camp.

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I thought under $50 million you don't lose a pick anymore?

 

The $50M rule only affects the team receiving the comp pick. If it's more than $50M, the comp pick is after the 1st RD. If it's less than $50M, the comp pick is after the 2nd RD. The team signing the player still loses a pick.

[he gone.]

The $50M rule only affects the team receiving the comp pick. If it's more than $50M, the comp pick is after the 1st RD. If it's less than $50M, the comp pick is after the 2nd RD. The team signing the player still loses a pick.

 

 

Forgot the pick tied to it. I'd reverse my interest in Moustakas. They need to revise that rule even more in my opinion.

[wrathofhahn]

I think with ALL of the top 10-15 or so free agents, there is a place where the price gets low enough that it makes sense. However, I think that the price that makes sense for the White Sox is lower than the price it makes sense for a bunch of other teams. So you're right in theory, but I don't think these guys will practically fall down to us.

 

Also, it sounds like Boras/MLBPA seem to be dead set on forcing a strike rather than accepting that this free agent class is simply weaker than average and they just aren't going to demand the same type of salaries as recent classes. There seem to be multiple reports saying that Hosmer has two 7yr/120-140mm offers on the table, but Boras is holding out for 10 years. Darvish has multiple 5yr offers on the table, but he's holding out to see if the Dodgers will clear space for him. Martinez has a 5yr/100-125m offer from Boston on the table, but he wants 200m. So I fail to see how this is the teams' fault -- these guys have very reasonable offers, they're just insisting on being treated like superstars instead of the flawed-but-above-average players that they are, simply because there aren't any true superstars available. As such, the Moustakas'-tier player is left holding the bag because no one is shopping down there until the top guys sign. I think a guy like Moustakas will just take the opportunity side with the union in their publicity stunt rather than settle for a pillow contract.

 

IMO, this is a bold, all-in push by the players to gain ground in a year where they really don't have a lot to justify the gain. They're doing this to themselves. Let's see if no one is willing to pay up for the generational talents next year before we start yelling for collusion.

 

I mean part of the problem is Boras also is the agent for other players so he really doesn't have them competing against each other. It's sort of hard to use other players as leverage when the other agent for the player is Boras.

 

In the past it's worked Boras could wait out the market because he held all the cards. He didn't need to worry about other agents coming out from underneath him to snatch one of his offers because he was the other agent for top fa's.

 

Now with teams rebuilding he's lost control of the process because teams can say well you aren't taking my offer? Well I'll trade for Ozuna instead. I'll trade for Yelich. I'll trade for McCutchen. I'll trade for Cole. He;s lost the power. It's actually funny to listen to Dombrowski say what I've been saying all offseason we have a number for JDM but there is no urgency on our end. Other options (also Boras clients) are not coming off the board and there are still trade opportunities.

 

 

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I mean part of the problem is Boras also is the agent for other players so he really doesn't have them competing against each other. It's sort of hard to use other players as leverage when the other agent for the player is Boras.

 

In the past it's worked Boras could wait out the market because he held all the cards. He didn't need to worry about other agents coming out from underneath him to snatch one of his offers because he was the other agent for top fa's.

 

Now with teams rebuilding he's lost control of the process because teams can say well you aren't taking my offer? Well I'll trade for Ozuna instead. I'll trade for Yelich. I'll trade for McCutchen. I'll trade for Cole. He;s lost the power. It's actually funny to listen to Dombrowski say what I've been saying all offseason we have a number for JDM but there is no urgency on our end. Other options (also Boras clients) are not coming off the board and there are still trade opportunities.

 

It seemed like the talk all off-season was also that they would trade JBJ after signing JDM. The longer the JDM signing is put off, the harder it is to trade JBJ since teams that could have traded for him have already signed/traded for other options or dealt pieces away for other areas of need. Unless they have no issue with Hanley being platoon DH or 1B.

[wrathofhahn]

It seemed like the talk all off-season was also that they would trade JBJ after signing JDM. The longer the JDM signing is put off, the harder it is to trade JBJ since teams that could have traded for him have already signed/traded for other options or dealt pieces away for other areas of need. Unless they have no issue with Hanley being platoon DH or 1B.

 

They'll platoon Hanley. His option vests with 497 PA. No way they want to pay him 22 million next year

 

 

[Eminor3rd]

It seemed like the talk all off-season was also that they would trade JBJ after signing JDM. The longer the JDM signing is put off, the harder it is to trade JBJ since teams that could have traded for him have already signed/traded for other options or dealt pieces away for other areas of need. Unless they have no issue with Hanley being platoon DH or 1B.

 

That move never really made sense anyway.