Bob Sacamano Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 09:53 AM) I think he should just wait until he has the actual teams and players. You can't really single him out. All reporters should wait then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 The White Sox currently have 11 OFs on their 40 man roster. I can't see them taking Ellsbury in payment for another guy, especially if the other guy is an OF as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 09:55 AM) You can't really single him out. All reporters should wait then. Uh, no. If his tweet was "Brewers near trade finalizing with Yankees to acquire a SP", that's enough for me. But the "Brewers nearing a trade" Zero scope. No return teams. Literally everyone just thinking they are a part of a massive 30 team deal. At least get the two teams and some idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 10:46 AM) He also just said that Braun is not in the trade. Definitely points to a potential Ellsbury deal, obviously doesn’t mean we’re involved. Still can’t believe the Brewers would take on that kind of salary. Would think a team like us or the Phillies would have to be the ultimate landing place for Ellsbury. I guess I'll say I don't believe it. Unless the Yankees are eating 90 percent of his salary they are still in on FA right now. Plus it just doesn't make sense Ellsbury is RL at this point. He won't be able to play CF much longer. They can find a cheap CF with control via a trade a heck of alot easier. I'm sure for example Hahn is willing to trade L Garcia for a modest package. Cain makes sense because well he is still way above RL. Ellsbury is JAG at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 09:53 AM) I think he should just wait until he has the actual teams and players. He just wants to be first, but not burn his source. For guys whose paychecks depend on information it is a tough balancing act when a guy like WSD can say something without consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 08:48 AM) I guess maybe the Giants would give him league minimum and a real shot to start? If he were a free agent today, he'd still get a major league contract for sure. It wouldn't be a $20 million contract, but Ellsbury still brings positive value. He was around 2 war each of the last two years. There are a number of teams he would start for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 11:11 AM) If he were a free agent today, he'd still get a major league contract for sure. It wouldn't be a $20 million contract, but Ellsbury still brings positive value. He was around 2 war each of the last two years. There are a number of teams he would start for. Ellsbury projects to have a 0.3 WAR this season. He's already 34 how much longer do you think he can play a competent CF? Because almost all his value is in his positional adjustment. Edited January 22, 2018 by wrathofhahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 QUOTE (wrathofhahn @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 10:43 AM) Ellsbury projects to have a 0.3 WAR this season. He's already 34 how much longer do you think he can play a competent CF? Because almost all his value is in his positional adjustment. Ichiro had a job for years. Ellsbury would have no problem finding a roster spot somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 QUOTE (wrathofhahn @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 10:43 AM) Ellsbury projects to have a 0.3 WAR this season. He's already 34 how much longer do you think he can play a competent CF? Because almost all his value is in his positional adjustment. He is still putting up productive numbers. 1.6 fWAR last season, 2.0 the year before. He isn't putting up superstar numbers anymore, but he isn't worthless either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) Well this is weird.. I have a dynasty team and had Corey Ray on it (late pick) and he obviously played in the brewers organization.. Today I went to my team (out of habit) and saw that he was listed as a player in the KC organization..... ummm Ray + to KC for Duffy (assuming)? Could that be the rumor Crasnick was mentioning? did my fantasy team confirm something of happening that hasn't been reported anywhere?!?! Edited January 22, 2018 by cjgalloway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 11:11 AM) If he were a free agent today, he'd still get a major league contract for sure. It wouldn't be a $20 million contract, but Ellsbury still brings positive value. He was around 2 war each of the last two years. There are a number of teams he would start for. Yes, a number of teams he could play for. But how many legitimate contenders would he START for? Because he's already on a contender and will get playing time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 11:50 AM) He is still putting up productive numbers. 1.6 fWAR last season, 2.0 the year before. He isn't putting up superstar numbers anymore, but he isn't worthless either. Due to his positional adjustment. The last three years he's put up OPS+ of 83, 88, and 97. He's a below average bat already in his decline phase. Where do you move him when he can't play CF? He's 34 and has 3 years left on his deal. With that being said I wouldn't oppose trading for him but it would be with the understanding we wouldn't get much of anything out of him and it would have to be for a bunch of prospects. Not one. It would be Frazier ++. Honestly if we did trade for him I wouldn't be opposed to giving him his release. It would allow us to not have to try and convince him to waive his NTC and we wouldn't have him clogging one of the OF spots. Edited January 22, 2018 by wrathofhahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 QUOTE (wrathofhahn @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 11:05 AM) Due to his positional adjustment. The last three years he's put up OPS+ of 83, 88, and 97. He's a below average bat already in his decline phase. Where do you move him when he can't play CF? He's 34 and has 3 years left on his deal. With that being said I wouldn't oppose trading for him but it would be with the understanding we wouldn't get much of anything out of him and it would have to be for a bunch of prospects. Not one. It would be Frazier ++. Honestly if we did trade for him I wouldn't be opposed to giving him his release. It would allow us to not have to try and convince him to waive his NTC and we wouldn't have him clogging one of the OF spots. You are arguing things no one has said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 12:15 PM) You are arguing things no one has said. Right -- if you're worried about where Ellsbury would play if the White Sox acquired him, you're thinking about it wrong. If we get him, it's because of what comes with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 01:39 PM) Right -- if you're worried about where Ellsbury would play if the White Sox acquired him, you're thinking about it wrong. If we get him, it's because of what comes with him. Which is sort of my point the more I think about it and the players already on the roster the more I've sort of realized there would be no spot for him here either to play everyday. He doesn't hit well enough to DH and realistically all his value is being able to play CF for maybe a season more. That would need to be factored in any trade. I also think with the way the market has developed many of our predictions or mine to be specific at the beginning at the thread are wrong. He probably gets a ML deal but less then 10 million and probably for only one year. So the amount of sunk cost we'd be eating in a trade is much higher. I think I used 9 million as a baseline and a three year deal before. Hard to see him getting that now in this market and if we have to eat his full deal thats 68.6 million. Which changes the formula of what you should expect back. To give that number some perspective fangraphs using it's own formula valued Frazier at 38 million and the 34th prospect overall. https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/valuing-the...-100-prospects/ Edited January 22, 2018 by wrathofhahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Jerry CrasnickVerified account @jcrasnick 2h2 hours ago Jerry Crasnick Retweeted Shane Thyssen I had indications from a couple of places that something might be happening, but #Brewers are juggling a lot of scenarios. They've been in on Yu Darvish and Lorenzo Cain as well, and I know they've been working hard on trade possibilities. Sorry if I got people's hopes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 03:37 PM) Jerry CrasnickVerified account @jcrasnick 2h2 hours ago Jerry Crasnick Retweeted Shane Thyssen I had indications from a couple of places that something might be happening, but #Brewers are juggling a lot of scenarios. They've been in on Yu Darvish and Lorenzo Cain as well, and I know they've been working hard on trade possibilities. Sorry if I got people's hopes up. Well then I guess the Brewer's "insider" is somewhat validated? Even if it doesn't include the Sox as a trade partner, I'm glad Brew Crew are actively trying to get better rather than take the slow route to rebuilding when you have a competitive team in place already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 QUOTE (pablo @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 03:55 PM) Well then I guess the Brewer's "insider" is somewhat validated? Even if it doesn't include the Sox as a trade partner, I'm glad Brew Crew are actively trying to get better rather than take the slow route to rebuilding when you have a competitive team in place already. Same, and they also had a very interesting rebuild that used a lot of avenues to build up talent via traditional and non-traditional means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I think the most realistic trade with the Sox and Brewers is a Braun salary dump by the Brewers to clear some payroll space for Darvish. Maybe something like Braun and Hiura or Diaz for Beck and Danish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 04:27 PM) I think the most realistic trade with the Sox and Brewers is a Braun salary dump by the Brewers to clear some payroll space for Darvish. Maybe something like Braun and Hiura or Diaz for Beck and Danish. I agree with this take; the most likely scenario is the Sox take on Braun's loaded contract in order to obtain some quality prospects. Might even be a 3 team deal to get that done... Edited January 22, 2018 by blackmooncreeping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 10:27 PM) I think the most realistic trade with the Sox and Brewers is a Braun salary dump by the Brewers to clear some payroll space for Darvish. Maybe something like Braun and Hiura or Diaz for Beck and Danish. That’s assuming this rumor is even true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Ok, so one part of this does make some sense to me. Now that we're getting to the end of January with a market full of FAs who can legitimately make teams better, I was thinking that some of the teams that were close last year, maybe WC challenging teams, could come in and say "one player could legitimately put us in the playoffs now" and make a run at some of these guys. This still is not the case for the White Sox, but my mind went to teams like Arizona and Colorado, the NL wild card teams last year - they could legitimately think that one player could be the difference between a playoff appearance for them and a playoff miss. Once these guys stay out on the market long enough, teams like those will go ahead and make that one move. The Brewers were one I didn't think of, but they fit in this boat also. It's complicated for them because several of the guys remaining are outfielders and the OF is where they're already strong, hence the crazy concepts here. It makes sense that the Brewers are a team pondering how to take advantage of where this market currently is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Yeah, I just checked Braun contract and he has a no trade. He is someone who could actually play LF this year before transitioning to DH but it's hard to see him accepting that role moving from a contending team to a rebuilding club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 QUOTE (wrathofhahn @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 04:52 PM) Yeah, I just checked Braun contract and he has a no trade. He is someone who could actually play LF this year before transitioning to DH but it's hard to see him accepting that role moving from a contending team to a rebuilding club. I really hope he wouldn't end up on the Sox. I'd have a hell of a time attempting to root for that guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmb0928 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 QUOTE (wrathofhahn @ Jan 22, 2018 -> 05:52 PM) Yeah, I just checked Braun contract and he has a no trade. He is someone who could actually play LF this year before transitioning to DH but it's hard to see him accepting that role moving from a contending team to a rebuilding club. I could see Braun wanting to come to the white sox. He is under contract til 2020. Do the brewers have a better chance at winning the world series in that time or do the white sox? There is also a mutual option for 2021 which if he is playing well he might want to stay and the sox would want to keep him. He would have a few years in our window. It depends on how he views the situation. Honestly, do we want him as he had a very average year last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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