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Kyyle23

Larry Nassar sentenced to 40-175 years in prison

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Considering this seems like the first chapter in this story, I feel like this should be discussed. MSU is going to be facing the music soon, the NCAA just now opened an investigation and the FBI have been talking to people for months

 

If anyone hasn’t heard the audio of MSU Trustee member John Ferguson, this is the height of ignorance and arrogance

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The deadspin and the athletic coverage of this have been must-reads.

 

It was horrendous to begin with, but gobsmacking to watch again the same tendencies of institutions to protect administrations over students or children they are charged to educate and protect.

 

Three gigantic cases from the catholic church to then penn state to then michigan state, each time something these people decided to "handle" instead of stop and grapple with.

 

makes me sick.

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This.

Burn it all down. That is the calm and reasoned conclusion to which I have come as one horror story after another unspooled in the courtroom. Nobody employed in the upper echelons at USA Gymnastics, or at the United States Olympic Committee, or at Michigan State University should still have a job. If accessorial or conspiracy charges plausibly can be lodged against those people, they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Those people should come out of civil courts wearing barrels. Their descendants should be answering motions in the 22nd Century. In fact, I can argue convincingly that none of those three institutions should continue to exist in its current form. USA Gymnastics and the USOC should lose their non-profit status forthwith. Michigan State should lose its status within the NCAA for at least five years. American gymnastics is no longer a sport. It’s a conspiracy of pedophiles and their enablers.

 

Where are the other coaches in East Lansing? Where is Tom Izzo, who makes four million bucks a year to coach basketball? Where is Mark Dantonio, who makes just about as much to coach football? Larry Nassar worked for the same athletic department as they do. In a recent press conference, Izzo fumbled all over himself to the point where Aly Raisman’s mother cranked up a flamethrower on Twitter.

 

Both Izzo and Dantonio went out of their way to support MSU president Lou Ann Simon, who probably should be transported to the apartment in Rome recently vacated by the late Bernard Cardinal Law. Nice to know that these two highly paid public employees know who the real victim is. And the school’s gymnastics coach tried to coerce her athletes into signing a card to support Nassar when the first charges began to come down. This is unfathomable to me. I believe it also would be unfathomable to Vlad the Impaler.

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 25, 2018 -> 07:36 AM)
As someone who hasn’t followed the details of this horrific story too closely, what does any of this have to do with Izzo?

 

Nothing really. He made some pretty icky comments the other day and said something like “hopefully they got the right guy”, but he isn’t gonna get fired

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 25, 2018 -> 07:41 AM)
Nothing really. He made some pretty icky comments the other day and said something like “hopefully they got the right guy”, but he isn’t gonna get fired

Gotcha, thanks.

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I can't wait until the NCAA concludes their investigation and docks Mississippi Valley State's soccer team 5 scholarships as a final punishment.

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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 25, 2018 -> 08:24 AM)
I can't wait until the NCAA concludes their investigation and docks Mississippi Valley State's soccer team 5 scholarships as a final punishment.

 

They give MSU gymnastics the death penalty

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QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Jan 25, 2018 -> 01:51 PM)
I love that the NCAA is in the morality/legal arena, but not academics. Makes sense.

What would the National Collegiate Athletic Association have to do with academics?

 

It is by definition the Athletic governing body.

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QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 25, 2018 -> 02:00 PM)
What would the National Collegiate Athletic Association have to do with academics?

 

It is by definition the Athletic governing body.

 

 

They require their members (and students) to meet certain academic standards to be eligible. "Student-Athletes" and all that bulls***.

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QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Jan 25, 2018 -> 02:06 PM)
They require their members (and students) to meet certain academic standards to be eligible. "Student-Athletes" and all that bulls***.

Well that's a different topic than than monitoring academics. The minimum standards are really low.

 

Personally, I think there should be an alternative to college athletics. Only kids who are going to spend the 4 years should even be allowed to go to college and participate in collegiate athletics.

 

However, with the money generated by football and basketball it would really hurt the universities. The NCAA and pro sports should get together and form minor leagues for football and basketball. This way the universities still get some revenue but they aren't the minor leagues for those sports.

 

Maybe there should be a rule that if you attend a university for football and basketball you can't participate in pro sports for 2 years after you leave.

 

Edit: It really isn't the fault of the NCAA. It's that the pro sports won't allow the athletes in their sport until a certain age. You can't fault the NFL as the athletes aren't physically mature enough yet. Also, athletes who go to the universites with no intention of focusing on the college education.

Edited by ptatc

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QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Jan 25, 2018 -> 02:06 PM)
They require their members (and students) to meet certain academic standards to be eligible. "Student-Athletes" and all that bulls***.

Also, there are true student athletes in sports other than football and basketball. My daughter is at a DI university running track and cross country. She would not be able to attend that school without the scholarship and is maintaining a 3.6 GPA.

 

The issue is the "student-athlete" who doesn't want to be a student.

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QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 25, 2018 -> 02:13 PM)
Well that's a different topic than than monitoring academics. The minimum standards are really low.

 

Personally, I think there should be an alternative to college athletics. Only kids who are going to spend the 4 years should even be allowed to go to college and participate in collegiate athletics.

 

However, with the money generated by football and basketball it would really hurt the universities. The NCAA and pro sports should get together and form minor leagues for football and basketball. This way the universities still get some revenue but they aren't the minor leagues for those sports.

 

Maybe there should be a rule that if you attend a university for football and basketball you can't participate in pro sports for 2 years after you leave.

 

I fail to see why the NCAA should be concerned with MSU hiring a rapist/pedophile if it also can't go after UNC for cheating on academic standards it requires. With the UNC decision the NCAA basically said our rules are shames and however you want to pretend like you meet them we can't do anything about it. Nassar didn't change how MSU gymnastics performed. So why should the NCAA care what it did or didn't do after hearing of the accusations? Same with Penn State. That's a criminal issue, not an athletic one.

 

(To be clear, I'm saying the NCAA SHOULD and MSU SHOULD get a death penalty if these accusations that they knew and did nothing are true, just like UNC should have been hit with a death penalty for clear and obvious cheating.)

Edited by JenksIsMyHero

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QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Jan 25, 2018 -> 02:24 PM)
I fail to see why the NCAA should be concerned with MSU hiring a rapist/pedophile if it also can't go after UNC for cheating on academic standards it requires. With the UNC decision the NCAA basically said our rules are shames and however you want to pretend like you meet them we can't do anything about it. Nassar didn't change how MSU gymnastics performed. So why should the NCAA care what it did or didn't do after hearing of the accusations? Same with Penn State. That's a criminal issue, not an athletic one.

 

(To be clear, I'm saying the NCAA SHOULD and MSU SHOULD get a death penalty if these accusations that they knew and did nothing are true, just like UNC should have been hit with a death penalty for clear and obvious cheating.)

 

I agree with this. It should be a legal and university issue. It is tangentially athletics as the AD and administration is there to protect the athletes while they are there at the university, so I sort of see why the NCAA would be involved but it's a stretch.

 

The UNC issue is a little trickier but the NCAA was still correct in their decision. The athletes did not get an advantage over any other student in the classes. The NCAA is not there to determine the academic rigor of courses. If the athletes got preferential treatment, that is a different story. The classes were easy with little to no work but that was for everyone in the class and the class was not just for the athletes.

 

 

Edited by ptatc

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This is an interesting discussion. When I first heard that as with UNC, the NCAA did not really have jurisdiction to have a ruling I was a bit angry about the sham of it all.

 

The NCAA is such a sham institution, neither 100% university aligned or student aligned, but concerned about itself, then universities, then students. And the only true protection it will give students will be token and reactive.

 

This really underscored how little protection student athletes have in situations like these. Basically they have title IX and absent that they have media.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 25, 2018 -> 02:56 PM)
This is an interesting discussion. When I first heard that as with UNC, the NCAA did not really have jurisdiction to have a ruling I was a bit angry about the sham of it all.

 

The NCAA is such a sham institution, neither 100% university aligned or student aligned, but concerned about itself, then universities, then students. And the only true protection it will give students will be token and reactive.

 

This really underscored how little protection student athletes have in situations like these. Basically they have title IX and absent that they have media.

Being a professor in academia, I was happy with the ruling.

 

An external group (not being an accreditation group) has no business telling an instructor or institution how to teach a course. They are there strictly to determine if an athlete received an advantage over the rest of the student body.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 25, 2018 -> 02:56 PM)
This is an interesting discussion. When I first heard that as with UNC, the NCAA did not really have jurisdiction to have a ruling I was a bit angry about the sham of it all.

 

The NCAA is such a sham institution, neither 100% university aligned or student aligned, but concerned about itself, then universities, then students. And the only true protection it will give students will be token and reactive.

 

This really underscored how little protection student athletes have in situations like these. Basically they have title IX and absent that they have media.

Wasn't this the exact purpose for which it was created? An independent organization created to make sure that neither the athlete nor the university gets unfair advantages. Granted, I too think that they've gotten so far off thier original purpose and have made rules too cumbersome. However, this was necessitated by either group continuing to find ways to cheat the system. Once, someone cheats, the NCAA made a rule to combat. Where the NCAA has gotten it wrong is that they have been too reactive and not proactive.

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QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 25, 2018 -> 04:15 PM)
Wasn't this the exact purpose for which it was created? An independent organization created to make sure that neither the athlete nor the university gets unfair advantages. Granted, I too think that they've gotten so far off thier original purpose and have made rules too cumbersome. However, this was necessitated by either group continuing to find ways to cheat the system. Once, someone cheats, the NCAA made a rule to combat. Where the NCAA has gotten it wrong is that they have been too reactive and not proactive.

 

Uh, yeah well in my opinion if you are going to be an organizational body for these two, you have a duty to make sure the universities are treating players well. Isn't this the purpose behind creating policies on amount of practice time? But they can't punish a university (through it's mechanisms of their participation in the NCAA) for lack of oversight in the case of abuse of athletes?

 

Like does the NCAA have jurisdiction to investigate things like the abuse of players under Tim Beckman's watch? If not, then why, and if so, then how would they not be able to play a role here?

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QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 25, 2018 -> 04:32 PM)
Uh, yeah well in my opinion if you are going to be an organizational body for these two, you have a duty to make sure the universities are treating players well. Isn't this the purpose behind creating policies on amount of practice time? But they can't punish a university (through it's mechanisms of their participation in the NCAA) for lack of oversight in the case of abuse of athletes?

 

Like does the NCAA have jurisdiction to investigate things like the abuse of players under Tim Beckman's watch? If not, then why, and if so, then how would they not be able to play a role here?

They do have the power to investigate. But they really don't have any legal means to do anything other than in the athletic realm. They could take away scholarships and things along that line.

 

Some players said he pushed them back to playing after injuries and threatened to take away scholarships. When they couldn't play he didn't take them to the Bowl game. He was investigated and fired by the university. What more would the NCAA do? Part of treating the athletes well was firing the coach who was behind it.

 

The NCAA is there to make the university handles it properly.

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