buckweaver Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 QUOTE (Tony @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 01:46 PM) I agree on the comp pick, for the length and as much time as Moose would see for the Sox, that doesn’t bother me. But by all reports he plays a slightly above average 3B, doesn’t really get on base and hits HRs (at least in 2017). Unless it’s a VERY good deal, I just don’t like it. I give you...Matt Davidson! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 QUOTE (buckweaver @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 02:35 PM) I give you...Matt Davidson! I honestly forgot he was still around until you mentioned him. Seems like a DFA candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 QUOTE (buckweaver @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 01:35 PM) I give you...Matt Davidson! Matt Davidson plays above average defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 In some ways I can seem him undervalued (would you rather Donaldson in age 33-38 seasons or Moustakas from 28-33?) and worth it, but gut is don't sign him. I'm with Y2Jimmy that this is more noise, and that nothing this offseason indicates we will sign him. That said, we seem to ask on every guy. We clearly have a number for Moustakas in which we would sign. Whether that number is offered in good faith that we would negotiate it upward? I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 01:32 PM) Isn't draft pick compensation for a contract over $50 million? Seems like if it's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 01:52 PM) Seems like if it's That's only for what the teams receive, the signing team gives up a 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FT35 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) Thing about this is...it's different from the "plugging holes with vets" strategy that caused repeated failure and forced us to be in this position of a full on rebuild. Moose is a legitimate piece being added into the mix who lines up with what we're trying to do from an age perspective. It's not that you're wasting at bats on someone who won't be here...they're going to someone who will be a part of it. If we could land him on an affordable 4-year deal we'd get age 29, 30, 31 and 32 seasons that would take us into our competitive window--and hopefully right up to the Jake Burger tenure at 3B. And I doubt that would handcuf our ability to add from the Super Free Agent pool next year--Even Machado--who, if you're luckey enough to sign, you make the corresponding moves at that time so you don't miss opportunities now. We're also looking at guys like Davidson and Sanchez being the guys most effected (which evaluating talent requires honesty), I'm OK with. I still think Sanchez has a spot on the team the next few years as a utility player--I'm just not sold on him being a big part of the core. Maybe he'll prove me wrong. Edited February 20, 2018 by FT35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 01:52 PM) Seems like if it's Yeah the team who loses the player still gets compensation (later round like you said). We would still forfeit our second pick I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 01:55 PM) Yeah the team who loses the player still gets compensation (later round like you said). We would still forfeit our second pick I believe. I think it is a 2nd and a 5th actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) QUOTE (Jack Parkman @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 01:56 PM) I think it is a 2nd and a 5th actually. No, that is for teams that exceed the luxury cap. They also lose $1 million in their international bonus pool. Edited February 20, 2018 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmb0928 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 02:59 PM) No, that is for teams that exceed the luxury cap. They also lose $1 million in their international bonus pool. Our payroll is at 65million, at some point we might have to sign somebody. This could be a good price, its not like it takes away our financial flexibility over the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 I'm going to back out of this gain. One thing about our position player pipeline is aside from Robert (Moncada aside), few are plus defensive guys. A lot of "mlb bat, find a position" type players. Tim is hopefully a plus SS. I believe Moncada can become one. I would really like our 3b to also be shut down, and let our OF be whatever we need offensively. I hope we don't need to pay for offense until we know we need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) I would guess that the front office recognizes the same need, that I do, for a middle of the order, left handed bat. Moustakas fills that need, while providing adequate defense, at a position of need. It's not surprising that the Sox would be linked to him. With the exception of Moncada, the best hitters on this current roster, as well as the best two hitting prospects, are all right handed. Unless Delmonico, Gillaspie, or some other free agent, emerges as a productive LH bat, that will likely remain a significant hole, in the offense. There is also hope for Collins, but whether or not he will become a middle of the order producer, is a question mark. "Moose" provides a solution, without blocking anyone. Burger could always become a first baseman, or DH, if he develops quickly. Edited February 20, 2018 by Lillian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) Projected line up, vs RHP, for 2019: 2B Moncada LH LF Avi 1B Abreu 3B Moustakas LH RF Eloy C Castillo SS Anderson DH Delmonico LH CF Engel, Leury, Tilson?????? That line up could score a lot of runs and provide decent defense. Edited February 20, 2018 by Lillian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 01:12 PM) I'm pretty confident in saying that the White Sox won't be forfeiting the 45th pick and $2 million in draft capital to sign Mike Moustakas. Why would they lose their 45th pick and not their third round pick (I.e. “third highest pick”)? Sox don’t have a sandwich pick this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Sign Moustakas to 4 years/55 Million. Then next year try and get Machado and move Moustakas to 1b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBWSF Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 QUOTE (Lillian @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 03:29 PM) Projected line up, vs RHP, for 2019: 2B Moncada LH LF Avi 1B Abreu 3B Moustakas LH RF Eloy C Castillo SS Anderson DH Delmonico LH CF Engel, Leury, Tilson?????? That line up could score a lot of runs and provide decent defense. I like your lineup. Hopefully the White Sox will sign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxforlife05 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) Unless it’s really cheap I’m not interested. Losing a draft pick not worth it for him. He will regress a ton. Edited February 20, 2018 by soxforlife05 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 QUOTE (cjgalloway @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 12:47 PM) Sign Moustakas to 4 years/55 Million. Then next year try and get Machado and move Moustakas to 1b If that is the type of money Moustakas is going for than I'm all over that deal. Figure out creative way to get under $50M for purposes of draft pick compensation (no idea if there is a creative way to doing that or not). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 01:40 PM) Can someone explain to me why Moustakas has such a low WAR compared to his traditional stats, which were all very good in 2017. OBP was a little low but he had a good OPS and obviously big power numbers. I always thought Mike was pretty solid defensively as well. .314 OBP to .521 SLG. League-wide walk rates have been quietly trending upward along with the explosion in homers, making his OBP well below average and the SLG not really all that far above average. He's exactly the player type that makes OPS deceiving. Edited February 20, 2018 by Eminor3rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericUserName Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 02:29 PM) Why would they lose their 45th pick and not their third round pick (I.e. “third highest pick”)? Sox don’t have a sandwich pick this year. Because we paid into revenue sharing but did not exceed the luxury tax we give up our 2nd highest pick and $500k in international money. The other teams only had to give up their third highest pick because they received revenue sharing. It doesn't matter how much we sign him for even if it were $1. The $50mil number that people bring up is what he has to be paid for the Royals to receive a pick after the first. If he signs for less then they receive a pick after the second round instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) Look, if we can get Mous under 50 million due to draft reasons, I MIGHT be on board. But Mous is about as 'unsexy' as it gets. I do like that he is only 29 and not some 32+++, so it's not like he's super old, but he is a Boras client and that means he is likely not going to settle for a cheap deal. For that reason I say.. No, no no no no. But I have to admit, I don't think any other team out there will take on Mous. The white sox are the only team that actually makes some sense. (Yankees won't go over luxury tax and need money to spend on the deadline etc. NO reason for the Yankees to take on Mous right now). All other teams do not need Mous, except the White Sox. For that reason, I expect the White Sox to sign Mike Mous at some point relatively soon. I also think it will be a multi-year deal and I have to hope that they get him for under $50 million due to draft pick compensation talk that I hear. edit: Don't mind me, I have no understanding of draft pick compensation and $50 million number being thrown around. Read posts above me. Edited February 20, 2018 by iWin4Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 QUOTE (iWin4Ron @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 03:45 PM) Look, if we can get Mous under 50 million due to draft reasons, I MIGHT be on board. But Mous is about as 'unsexy' as it gets. I do like that he is only 29 and not some 32+++, so it's not like he's super old, but he is a Boras client and that means he is likely not going to settle for a cheap deal. For that reason I say.. No, no no no no. But I have to admit, I don't think any other team out there will take on Mous. The white sox are the only team that actually makes some sense. (Yankees won't go over luxury tax and need money to spend on the deadline etc. NO reason for the Yankees to take on Mous right now). All other teams do not need Mous, except the White Sox. For that reason, I expect the White Sox to sign Mike Mous at some point relatively soon. I also think it will be a multi-year deal and I have to hope that they get him for under $50 million due to draft pick compensation talk that I hear. edit: Don't mind me, I have no understanding of draft pick compensation and $50 million number being thrown around. Read posts above me. Sox give up second round pick no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Who would sign Mike Mous.? 1. Cardinals - Maybe a chance here, but they've seemed adament about their options already. If they wanted him, there would have been more connections by now between St. Louis and Mous. So I don't think this is an option. 2. Yankees - Nope. Luxury tax and $$$$ this year. They need that money for moves all year and SP. 3. White Sox - Unfortunately, yes, they need a 3b and let's be real -- they aren't getting Manny and Donaldson vs. Mike kinda seems like a wash due to age. No other team needs Mous. I am almost 80% certain that Mike Mous lands on the W'Sox in a multi-year deal with this information and with the way this free agency has picked up as of late. The fire we see with the connections is likely Boras pulling the moves to get his players signed. Something must of happened this week with the free agents / boras / teams and we see all this happening now. I wouldn't be angry that we get Mike Mous. I think he has good age, and moving from Kauffman to our stadium will definitely help pad his numbers. I just hope that the $$$ we spend on him doesn't hurt our chances in getting legitimate needs when our time comes. I think it'll be a fair deal for both player and team. Kind of excited now, TBH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 To hopefully help with this and not have it buried in a thread, I just created a new one with links outlining: http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=104763 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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