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So the more I read about this guy, the more I think this kid can become something. You've got to love the tools which are average or better across the board (as you can see below). But what really gives me hope is his plus speed which might just allow him to stick in CF. For some reason, I get an Aaron Rowand vibe from him. Obviously he'll never be that type of defender, but I think he can be a bit better with the bat if all goes right.

 

FG Tool Grades (Present/Future)

Hit: 40/50

Raw Power: 55/55

Game Power: 30/45

Run: 60/60

Fielding: 50/55

Throw: 55/55

 

What do you guys think of this kid? Can he stick in CF? If so, what is his ceiling?

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Cordell gets praise for having solid average to above-average tools across the board...he can handle center field, although he's probably a better fit in a corner spot long-term, and his arm will play in right field. Cordell has speed (he was 21 for 25 stealing bases last season) and power, and the main question about him is whether he'll be able to hit enough against upper-level pitching.

 

Cordell's upside is as a solid everyday outfielder who does everything well without being great at any one thing, with a more realistic role perhaps being a fourth outfielder who can be pressed into every day duty if need be -- someone like David (not to be confused with Daniel) Murphy, for example.

 

https://www.lonestarball.com/2015/2/11/8018...scouting-report

 

Murphy, fwiw, had a career MLB ops of 765 over 9 seasons

 

Cordell just over 800 ops career milb, most career games in CF (145), then RF (125), then LF (94)

 

45 milb games at 3b, Sox will try him there apparently for versatility, 14 at SS

Edited by caulfield12

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It was the trying him at 3b that really intrigued me. We get into some "where will they play" discussions, but look at the playoff teams last year. More starting players than positions, but they found them all playing time. If Cordell can show to be passable at 4 positions (3 OF, 1 3b), that really gives him a boost as a regular MLB player.

 

Excited to see him develop, he's much bigger than I pictured.

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It was very exciting to see his name brought up over the winter by Rick Hahn pretty unprompted. I know we are only a few games into spring, but at the very least it is nice to see him healthy and productive. Hopefully his back issues are behind him.

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Honestly when the trade was made of Swarzak I was pretty bummed to only get Cordell back who at the time was MIL 17th best prospect the return felt light.

 

It would be awesome if Cordell to developed into a starting caliber CF.

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QUOTE (wrathofhahn @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 10:54 AM)
Honestly when the trade was made of Swarzak I was pretty bummed to only get Cordell back who at the time was MIL 17th best prospect the return felt light.

 

It would be awesome if Cordell to developed into a starting caliber CF.

 

Swarzak was a pending free agent who was having a breakout year. Getting Cordell for him was a big win.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 10:55 AM)
Swarzak was a pending free agent who was having a breakout year. Getting Cordell for him was a big win.

 

Agreed. And Milwaukee had a nice farm system last season. He would have been ranked higher on most teams.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 11:55 AM)
Swarzak was a pending free agent who was having a breakout year. Getting Cordell for him was a big win.

 

You must have had a higher opinion of him then the scouting reports I was reading at the time which is fine. Most of the stuff I saw had him pegged as a future 4OF. Just didn't see the need for another one of those guys considering how many are already in our system (Tilson, Fisher, Call, Engel).

 

If he turns into a starting CF we obviously won the deal.

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QUOTE (wrathofhahn @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 11:09 AM)
You must have had a higher opinion of him then the scouting reports I was reading at the time which is fine. Most of the stuff I saw had him pegged as a future 4OF. Just didn't see the need for another one of those guys considering how many are already in our system (Tilson, Fisher, Call, Engel).

 

If he turns into a starting CF we obviously won the deal.

 

For a right handed relief pitcher who was going to be a free agent in 3 months time, and had a breakout year. It is funny you mention Tilson, because that is who we got for Zach Duke, and still had a year on his deal at the time. Cordell at least had shown that he could hit. Tilson is the very definition of a 4th OF.

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I like Cordell, and I don't know how accurate these minor league batted ball metrics are, but one potential major concern I have when look at his numbers is that Cordell's pop-up rate makes Todd Frazier look like Joey Votto (~30%+ in his last three stops, yeesh).

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QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 07:47 AM)
It was the trying him at 3b that really intrigued me. We get into some "where will they play" discussions, but look at the playoff teams last year. More starting players than positions, but they found them all playing time. If Cordell can show to be passable at 4 positions (3 OF, 1 3b), that really gives him a boost as a regular MLB player.

 

Excited to see him develop, he's much bigger than I pictured.

I think if we could force Hahn into telling us his druthers on which CF candidate, currently on the 40 or near major league ready, he hopes lives up to his potential Engel and Cordell would be in a dead heat.

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 09:20 AM)
So the more I read about this guy, the more I think this kid can become something. You've got to love the tools which are average or better across the board (as you can see below). But what really gives me hope is his plus speed which might just allow him to stick in CF. For some reason, I get an Aaron Rowand vibe from him. Obviously he'll never be that type of defender, but I think he can be a bit better with the bat if all goes right.

 

FG Tool Grades (Present/Future)

Hit: 40/50

Raw Power: 55/55

Game Power: 30/45

Run: 60/60

Fielding: 50/55

Throw: 55/55

 

What do you guys think of this kid? Can he stick in CF? If so, what is his ceiling?

 

Wow, they're grading him pretty much as a 5 tool player. Hopefully he can show that. If he can become an Aaron Rowand type player, that's valuable.

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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 11:49 AM)
I think if we could force Hahn into telling us his druthers on which CF candidate, currently on the 40 or near major league ready, he hopes lives up to his potential Engel and Cordell would be in a dead heat.

 

Honestly I think he would love Engel to learn how how to hit at even a league average rate. With a young pitching staff, the defense is huge. We saw it yesterday with Carson Fulmer getting flamed for a big inning after Delmonico filleted one in LF.

 

Past that, I think they want the best bat in the line up.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 09:56 AM)
Honestly I think he would love Engel to learn how how to hit at even a league average rate. With a young pitching staff, the defense is huge. We saw it yesterday with Carson Fulmer getting flamed for a big inning after Delmonico filleted one in LF.

 

Past that, I think they want the best bat in the line up.

I put them in a dead heat mostly because Cordell is viewed as having more tools and he is younger than Engel so those tools put him above Engel and but the Engel defense out there means a lot . Based on ceiling , age, power, arm Cordell has batter tools than Engel

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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 12:12 PM)
I put them in a dead heat mostly because Cordell is viewed as having more tools and he is younger than Engel so those tools put him above Engel and but the Engel defense out there means a lot . Based on ceiling , age, power, arm Cordell has batter tools than Engel

 

Are you sure about that? Except for the critical hit tool, I think that Engel has considerably more speed, as much power and an elite glove. They may both be potentially 5 tool players, but I don't think that Cordell has the potential for the elite speed and defense in CF, that Engel has. On the other hand, Engel is not nearly as far along with his development as a hitter. A guy can figure that out, and learn to hit, but you can't acquire that kind of speed.

Edited by Lillian

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QUOTE (Lillian @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 12:31 PM)
Are you sure about that? Except for the critical hit tool, I think that Engel has considerably more speed, as much power and an elite glove. They may both be potentially 5 tool players, but I don't think that Cordell has the potential for the elite speed and defense in CF, that Engel has. On the other hand, Engel is not nearly as far along with his development as a hitter. A guy can figure that out, and learn to hit, but you can't acquire that kind of speed.

In addition to the hit tool issue, Engel has less raw power than Cordell and a much worse arm. I think it's fair to say that Cordell has a better overall package of tools. Obviously Engel has super elite speed and insane potential from a defense standpoint.

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 12:53 PM)
In addition to the hit tool issue, Engel has less raw power than Cordell and a much worse arm. I think it's fair to say that Cordell has a better overall package of tools. Obviously Engel has super elite speed and insane potential from a defense standpoint.

 

That is not my perception. Here is what Future Sox had to say about Engel's tools:

"The reason he's been a Top 30 prospect for a couple years now is almost entirely about his tools. Engel has true plus-plus speed, a strong arm and elite athleticism. He's gotten body comps to Mike Trout, and he's got enough strength that some scouts see latent power potential he's yet to tap into."

 

Here is MLB Pipeline's evaluation of Cordell: His scouting grades according to mlbpipeline (as of 2017) were: Hit 45 Power 55 Run 60 Arm 55 Field 55.

 

Engel's arm is certainly at least 55

Of course, the big question is whether, or not, Adam will ever make consistent contact. Again, I concur that Cordell appears to be much further along with his hitting.

Edited by Lillian

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 12:53 PM)
In addition to the hit tool issue, Engel has less raw power than Cordell and a much worse arm. I think it's fair to say that Cordell has a better overall package of tools. Obviously Engel has super elite speed and insane potential from a defense standpoint.

 

In an ideal world, Engel is a CF, and Cordell is a corner OF. A lot of this depends on if Engel can hit like a replacement player or not.

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QUOTE (Lillian @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 12:58 PM)
That is not my perception. Here is what Future Sox had to say about Engel's tools:

"The reason he's been a Top 30 prospect for a couple years now is almost entirely about his tools. Engel has true plus-plus speed, a strong arm and elite athleticism. He's gotten body comps to Mike Trout, and he's got enough strength that some scouts see latent power potential he's yet to tap into."

 

Here is MLB Pipeline's evaluation of Cordell: His scouting grades according to mlbpipeline (as of 2017) were: Hit 45 Power 55 Run 60 Arm 55 Field 55.

 

Engel's arm is certainly at least 55

Of course, the big question is whether, or not, Adam will ever make consistent contact. Again, I concur that Cordell appears to be much further along with his hitting.

I absolutely love FutureSox, but I think they missed the mark on Engel's arm with that comment. I think the general consensus is that it's below average.

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QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 01:06 PM)
I absolutely love FutureSox, but I think they missed the mark on Engel's arm with that comment. I think the general consensus is that it's below average.

 

They aren't the only ones who feel that way.

 

https://www.minorleagueball.com/2017/5/27/1...icago-white-sox

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 01:02 PM)
In an ideal world, Engel is a CF, and Cordell is a corner OF. A lot of this depends on if Engel can hit like a replacement player or not.

 

In an IDEAL world, Jimenez, Robert, and at least one of Adolfo or Rutherford destroy all minor league pitching and show that they're all ready to be stars in 2019, making all this talk about most of these OFs irrelevant.

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QUOTE (Lillian @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 10:58 AM)
That is not my perception. Here is what Future Sox had to say about Engel's tools:

"The reason he's been a Top 30 prospect for a couple years now is almost entirely about his tools. Engel has true plus-plus speed, a strong arm and elite athleticism. He's gotten body comps to Mike Trout, and he's got enough strength that some scouts see latent power potential he's yet to tap into."

 

Here is MLB Pipeline's evaluation of Cordell: His scouting grades according to mlbpipeline (as of 2017) were: Hit 45 Power 55 Run 60 Arm 55 Field 55.

 

Engel's arm is certainly at least 55

Of course, the big question is whether, or not, Adam will ever make consistent contact. Again, I concur that Cordell appears to be much further along with his hitting.

Hit: 40/50

Raw Power: 55/55

Game Power: 30/45

Run: 60/60

Fielding: 50/55

Throw: 55/55

Those are Cordell's as listed in the opening post.

 

They seem pretty equal if you look at the tools list but Engel has never shown much power throughout his minor league career and Cordell has. Speed looks equal in scouting reports but have to give edge to Engel since we have witnessed it. Arm we have also witnessed it with Engel and to me its average. Probably not fair to give Cordell an edge there just based on scouting.

 

As you mentioned the problem with Engel is his hit tool even going back to college when he had a terrible junior year. He also hasn't displayed much patience at the plate either. That one Az. Fall league in 2015 where he was named MVP seems to be an aberration. Defense alone can only get you so far.

 

They are difficult to compare since we have seen Engel at the MLB level and not Cordell and the shine on Cordell now could easily blur once we see him at the same level.

 

Jim Margalus formerly of SSS now Sox Machine has a recent article on Cordell and it's very fair. https://www.soxmachine.com/2018/02/28/white...dells-unknowns/

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 11:58 AM)
Has he appeared in the IF at all yet?

Don't think so and I have my doubts that he will since he did have the back injury last year.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 28, 2018 -> 02:02 PM)
In an ideal world, Engel is a CF, and Cordell is a corner OF. A lot of this depends on if Engel can hit like a replacement player or not.

 

People are delusional about Engel he was hitting 218 in AAA when he was called up. He's 26 and looks lost at the plate if he ends up being anything more then AAA fodder I'd be surprised.

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