soxfan49 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: They were dogshit because they went half assed. If they are going to spend like a lot of posters here think they are going to spend, frontline starters, lockdown relievers, Manny Machado, if they would have done that when they had guys like Sale and Q and Eaton signed cheaply, they would have been just fine. Which poster suggested signing multiple frontline starters, lockdown relievers AND Manny Machado? Also, it's not like signing Cabrera, Keppinger, Dunn and Robertson and trading for Samardzija was "half-assed." In hindsight, sure, but at the time, all of those acquisitions were exciting due to each players' recent successes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Since returning to action from the disabled list on June 22, Garcia leads the Majors with the highest hard-hit rate per Statcast™. Garcia's percentage checks in at 63.4 for balls hit with an exit velocity of 95+ mph, leading Nick Markakis (60.5), Manny Machado (60) and Hunter Renfroe (60). Garcia has erased a slow start with a .339 average, 1.123 OPS, six home runs (now 7*) and nine (now 11*) RBIs upon getting healthy. From Merkin on whitesox.com * added by me He's not healthy. According to the Trib his leg was wrapped up after last night's game and his knee was wrapped on the other leg. He admitted his hammies are sore as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: Which poster suggested signing multiple frontline starters, lockdown relievers AND Manny Machado? Also, it's not like signing Cabrera, Keppinger, Dunn and Robertson and trading for Samardzija was "half-assed." In hindsight, sure, but at the time, all of those acquisitions were exciting due to each players' recent successes. It’s all over the site, they are going to have so much money to spend. The White Sox problem from 2007-2016 was their idea of all in wasn’t all in. People expect them to be players for guys they never have signed before, except Albert Belle over 21 years ago. Maybe it happens. But a lot has to start going right. Maybe it will the next month or so, they seem to play KC every other series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: Which poster suggested signing multiple frontline starters, lockdown relievers AND Manny Machado? Also, it's not like signing Cabrera, Keppinger, Dunn and Robertson and trading for Samardzija was "half-assed." In hindsight, sure, but at the time, all of those acquisitions were exciting due to each players' recent successes. It was half assed. They had holes they needed to fill and they filled half of them, and prayed. If Jeff Keppinger isn’t a half assed free agent signing when you are trying to win, It’s only because half assed is giving it far too much credit. Edited July 7, 2018 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: It was half assed. They had holes they needed to fill and they filled half of them, and prayed. If Jeff Keppinger isn’t a half assed free agent signing when you are trying to win, It’s only because half assed is giving it far too much credit. The year before the Sox signed Keppinger, he hit .325. 4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: It’s all over the site, they are going to have so much money to spend. The White Sox problem from 2007-2016 was their idea of all in wasn’t all in. People expect them to be players for guys they never have signed before, except Albert Belle over 21 years ago. Maybe it happens. But a lot has to start going right. Maybe it will the next month or so, they seem to play KC every other series. I've seen a lot of "there will be money to be spent" but I haven't seen one poster mention frontline starters (plural), lockdown relievers (plural), and Machado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: The year before the Sox signed Keppinger, he hit .325. I've seen a lot of "there will be money to be spent" but I haven't seen one poster mention frontline starters (plural), lockdown relievers (plural), and Machado. And they year before that he was non tendered. He was a journeyman his entire career. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 19 minutes ago, greg775 said: He's not healthy. According to the Trib his leg was wrapped up after last night's game and his knee was wrapped on the other leg. He admitted his hammies are sore as well. He needs to be at DH 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Just now, fathom said: He needs to be at DH Unfortunately the team has several guys that fit that category. At least he can hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy U Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 36 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: It was half assed. They had holes they needed to fill and they filled half of them, and prayed. If Jeff Keppinger isn’t a half assed free agent signing when you are trying to win, It’s only because half assed is giving it far too much credit. The problem with the Sox in those years was they had like 5 good players and everyone else suuucked. I saw an article on ESPN back then asking seriously did the Sox have the worst collection of position players in history! Hard to sign enough free agents to make up for that, especially when players are aging faster and a lot of Free agents fall off a cliff right after you sign them ala Adam Dunn. You can’t seriously expect them to sign like 10 guys. Now they have committed to building some depth. Hopefully some of those guys turn out to be stars. If so, they’ll have enough quantity to build around them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 (edited) 57 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: Which poster suggested signing multiple frontline starters, lockdown relievers AND Manny Machado? Also, it's not like signing Cabrera, Keppinger, Dunn and Robertson and trading for Samardzija was "half-assed." In hindsight, sure, but at the time, all of those acquisitions were exciting due to each players' recent successes. I disagreed with almost all those signings because those players, uh, sucked. Melky I despised before he got to the Sox and during his tenure; Keppinger didn't thrill me; I ripped acquiring Dunn. I was very happy to get Robertson and I was displeased to get Samardzija. The board was so happy about Shark, however, I accepted that move and he was blah as well. Only Robertson was a good acquisition. He was splendid. Edited July 7, 2018 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 6 minutes ago, Timmy U said: The problem with the Sox in those years was they had like 5 good players and everyone else suuucked. I saw an article on ESPN back then asking seriously did the Sox have the worst collection of position players in history! Hard to sign enough free agents to make up for that, especially when players are aging faster and a lot of Free agents fall off a cliff right after you sign them ala Adam Dunn. You can’t seriously expect them to sign like 10 guys. Now they have committed to building some depth. Hopefully some of those guys turn out to be stars. If so, they’ll have enough quantity to build around them. The problem with the White Sox was much more fundamental and deeper. I picked up a Buck Showalter quote a few years ago when he was still on TV that the most important thing a general manager could do is understand his roster. Our General Manager knew nothing about his roster, for years. He insisted that they were 1 player away and was constantly willing to sacrifice depth in trades to get that one player (Samardzija, Frazier). He insisted that when he picked up guys at the peak of their career arcs, they wouldn't fall off. He insisted that guys who had never broken out in the big leagues - Garcia, Rodon - were ready for Stardom, and planned around it. Rick Hahn completely failed in his evaluation of the quality of the White Sox roster in 2013, 2015, and 2016. Each one of those years, he made decisions that made the teams worse in 2017, 2018, and 2019 as a result. The end result of those decisions to be worse in 2017, 2018, and 2019, is the White Sox being worse in 2017, 2018, and 2019. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 17 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: He insisted that they were 1 player away and was constantly willing to sacrifice depth in trades to get that one player (Samardzija, Frazier). You really think this is a bad thing? Those trades were wins for us, or washes at worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: The problem with the White Sox was much more fundamental and deeper. I picked up a Buck Showalter quote a few years ago when he was still on TV that the most important thing a general manager could do is understand his roster. Our General Manager knew nothing about his roster, for years. He insisted that they were 1 player away and was constantly willing to sacrifice depth in trades to get that one player (Samardzija, Frazier). He insisted that when he picked up guys at the peak of their career arcs, they wouldn't fall off. He insisted that guys who had never broken out in the big leagues - Garcia, Rodon - were ready for Stardom, and planned around it. Rick Hahn completely failed in his evaluation of the quality of the White Sox roster in 2013, 2015, and 2016. Each one of those years, he made decisions that made the teams worse in 2017, 2018, and 2019 as a result. The end result of those decisions to be worse in 2017, 2018, and 2019, is the White Sox being worse in 2017, 2018, and 2019. This is a very very good post. I love the critical Balta more than the other one. I know nobody believes me, but almost all those acquisitions were disgusting to me. Like I said, only Robertson was a good pick up. Melky? Dunn? Frazier? Ugh. Shark? Ugh. LaRoche? My gosh he stunk. Once in a while we pick up a pitcher that's average and Coop fixes him for a good while, then they stink again (Humber, now Covey). Edited July 7, 2018 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 36 minutes ago, greg775 said: This is a very very good post. I love the critical Balta more than the other one. I know nobody believes me, but almost all those acquisitions were disgusting to me. Like I said, only Robertson was a good pick up. Melky? Dunn? Frazier? Ugh. Shark? Ugh. LaRoche? My gosh he stunk. Once in a while we pick up a pitcher that's average and Coop fixes him for a good while, then they stink again (Humber, now Covey). Cooper fixing starters is a myth for about last 5 years. He hasn't had a lot to work with, but boy has he not turned any peasants into Cinderella either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 6 minutes ago, fathom said: Cooper fixing starters is a myth for about last 5 years. He hasn't had a lot to work with, but boy has he not turned any peasants into Cinderella either. Covey was pretty good a while there. He fixed Soria (reliever though). He fixed Humber for a while. He fixed Shields. He failed with Shark. I'm thinking he fixed a lot of pitchers still. He needs to get Lopez, Gio and some other guys to quit walking batters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Just now, greg775 said: Covey was pretty good a while there. He fixed Soria (reliever though). He fixed Humber for a while. He fixed Shields. He failed with Shark. I'm thinking he fixed a lot of pitchers still. He needs to get Lopez, Gio and some other guys to quit walking batters. Five or so good starts does not equal "fixed". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 1 minute ago, fathom said: Five or so good starts does not equal "fixed". I think if you copy and paste from somewhere all our pitchers from the last 5 years you'd see a lot of Coop success stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Soxfan Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 2 hours ago, fathom said: Cooper fixing starters is a myth for about last 5 years. He hasn't had a lot to work with, but boy has he not turned any peasants into Cinderella either. Did ok with Kahnle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 11 minutes ago, sox71 said: Did ok with Kahnle? Tyler Clippard too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 1 hour ago, sox71 said: Did ok with Kahnle? Mentioned that it's for starters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 (edited) I'll credit him for Swarzak and Kahnle. Clippard had virtual identical WHIP and K totals with the Yankees as he did with the Sox. The Sox are paying Soria $9 million; he didn't need fixing. Shields hasn't been fixed. I don't blame Cooper for not fixing him; but I do blame him and the GM for apparently not bothering to find out that his velocity and stuff were way off. I haven't given up on Covey - A few sharply hit balls found holes the other night, but he wasn't mauled. If Covey works out, credit Cooper. Giolito, Fulmer, and Lopez....they obviously haven't been fixed. And dumping Junior Guerra is major misfeasance. They wouldn't have had to bother trading for Shields because he is what the Sox wanted in Shields. Edited July 8, 2018 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 1 hour ago, GreenSox said: Shields hasn't been fixed. I don't blame Cooper for not fixing him; but I do blame him and the GM for apparently not bothering to find out that his velocity and stuff were way off. Some of your blame for Shields could also be placed on Padres GM AJ Preller. He hid some of Shields' medical info from us at the time of the trade. For whatever reason, the MLB investigation concluded without giving us the option to undo the trade. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy U Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Jose Abreu said: Some of your blame for Shields could also be placed on Padres GM AJ Preller. He hid some of Shields' medical info from us at the time of the trade. For whatever reason, the MLB investigation concluded without giving us the option to undo the trade. The blame for Shields is wishful thinking on the part of the front office. They got off to a blistering start, then they gave it all back similar to this year’s Mets. They chose to believe that they could somehow contend rather than looking at the evidence that the team just wasn’t that good. Even if Shields had been good, the trade would have been disastrous. The fact that he was bad is just the cherry on top. I remember that the details of the trade leaked out and Keith Law was like “Nooooo!” He had scouts from other orgs telling him that, were he eligible for the draft, He Who Shall Not Be Named would have been picked 1-1. We ought to hire those scouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 10 hours ago, Jose Abreu said: Some of your blame for Shields could also be placed on Padres GM AJ Preller. He hid some of Shields' medical info from us at the time of the trade. For whatever reason, the MLB investigation concluded without giving us the option to undo the trade. Did Preller hide the box score of Shields last start before the trade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 24 minutes ago, fathom said: Did Preller hide the box score of Shields last start before the trade? Shields had more than one horrific start before the Tatis trade, IIRC. I'm surprised some intrepid Chicago reporter doesn't make a public issue of this trade. Or, did someone do this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.