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southsider2k5

2018 White Sox catch-all thread

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5 minutes ago, bubba phillips said:

IF you're a diehard White Sox fan, you also hate the Chubs, by definition.  It works the other way, also.  A much more intense love-hate relationship:  Bears and Packers.

If you are a REAL die hard fan, you value the Sox future over the Cubs failure.

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28 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If you are a REAL die hard fan, you value the Sox future over the Cubs failure.

The Sox future is not riding on whether they get the 4th pick or, at worst, the 6th pick in next year's draft.

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7 minutes ago, bubba phillips said:

The Sox future is not riding on whether they get the 4th pick or, at worst, the 6th pick in next year's draft.

It is way more important than where the Cubs finish this year... or any year unless we are playing them in the World Series.

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1 hour ago, bubba phillips said:

IF you're a diehard White Sox fan, you also hate the Chubs, by definition.  It works the other way, also.  A much more intense love-hate relationship:  Bears and Packers.

Why to I have to hate the cubs? We only play them a few times a year. I don't deal with a bunch of annoying cubs fans. My baseball "hate" is for divisional rivals and the annoying fans I deal with... which are mostly yanks and bosox (there are a lot of mariners fans here but they have nothing to be annoying about).

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1 hour ago, yesterday333 said:

Why to I have to hate the cubs? We only play them a few times a year. I don't deal with a bunch of annoying cubs fans. My baseball "hate" is for divisional rivals and the annoying fans I deal with... which are mostly yanks and bosox (there are a lot of mariners fans here but they have nothing to be annoying about).

During Game 7 of the 2016 World Series, I went out with all my Cub fans friends. They were nervous wrecks, just like I was in 2005. While I didn’t cheer for the Cubs that night, I also wasn’t the asshole at the bar cheering for the Indians. When the Cubs won, I was so happy my friends got to experience when I felt in 2005. 

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2 hours ago, yesterday333 said:

Why to I have to hate the cubs? We only play them a few times a year. I don't deal with a bunch of annoying cubs fans. My baseball "hate" is for divisional rivals and the annoying fans I deal with... which are mostly yanks and bosox (there are a lot of mariners fans here but they have nothing to be annoying about).

Sox fans who worry about the Cub play into the second-class narrative that describes them. The team that has kept the Sox from steady success are the Sox. 

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5 hours ago, yesterday333 said:

Why to I have to hate the cubs? We only play them a few times a year. I don't deal with a bunch of annoying cubs fans. My baseball "hate" is for divisional rivals and the annoying fans I deal with... which are mostly yanks and bosox (there are a lot of mariners fans here but they have nothing to be annoying about).

There's probably a lot to envy.  Their ownership doesn't have a sense of loyalty to a fault.  They invest in experienced management while the Sox always look for someone who wore the uniform.  Two of our top prospects were originally theirs.  Their farm system is no joke. They have better scouting.  They are superior in many ways.  Reinsdorf's buddy system vs. Ricketts getting those who won.  I do fear when Reinsdorf is gone there will still be that status quo.

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If you deal with highly annoying Cub Trolls, then that option is much more appealing than it otherwise would be just to get them to STFU.

Edited by Jack Parkman

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4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

The statistic that I find most intriguing is his home run rate of one in every 15 at bats. That makes him a bonafide "slugger," and has the potential to fill the void of that elusive, middle of the order, left handed bat. If he can maintain that, going forward, that is one hole filled. Now, do they keep Avi and Abreu, next season and try to fill out the rotation, or do they trade them, and delay the contention window, until 2020, or beyond? What the front office does with those two will probably tell us, in which direction they want to go.  A lineup of Moncada, Avi, Abreu, Palka Eloy, Narvaez, Anderson etc, is probably good enough, if they have the pitching. 

Edited by Lillian
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27 minutes ago, Lillian said:

The statistic that I find most intriguing is his home run rate of one in every 15 at bats. That makes him a bonafide "slugger," and has the potential to fill the void of that elusive, middle of the order, left handed bat. If he can maintain that, going forward, that is one hole filled. Now, do they keep Avi and Abreu, next season and try to fill out the rotation, or do they trade them, and delay the contention window, until 2020, or beyond? What the front does with those two will probably tell us, in which direction they want to go.  A lineup of Moncada, Avi, Abreu, Palka Eloy, Narvaez, Anderson etc, is probably good enough, if they have the pitching. 

Not to be giddy but I think he is still improving. Hitting to LF has made him a more complete hitter I believe. Needs to reduce the Ks a bit but is approaching 800 OPS. 

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3 hours ago, Lillian said:

The statistic that I find most intriguing is his home run rate of one in every 15 at bats. That makes him a bonafide "slugger," and has the potential to fill the void of that elusive, middle of the order, left handed bat. If he can maintain that, going forward, that is one hole filled. Now, do they keep Avi and Abreu, next season and try to fill out the rotation, or do they trade them, and delay the contention window, until 2020, or beyond? What the front office does with those two will probably tell us, in which direction they want to go.  A lineup of Moncada, Avi, Abreu, Palka Eloy, Narvaez, Anderson etc, is probably good enough, if they have the pitching. 

Lots of .230-.240 hitters there.  Not gonna work.

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3 hours ago, pcq said:

Not to be giddy but I think he is still improving. Hitting to LF has made him a more complete hitter I believe. Needs to reduce the Ks a bit but is approaching 800 OPS. 

Would love to see him walk a bit more before I think we can feel comfortable with him as a long term option for the contention window. He honestly reminds me a bit of pre-2018 left-handed version of Adam Duvall right now. That has value, but not as a main 3, 4, 5 spot in the lineup.

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9 hours ago, oldsox said:

Lots of .230-.240 hitters there.  Not gonna work.

Yes, that's true, however that seems to be the norm, in this era. Even the good offensive teams don't seem to have very many high average hitters. It's a function of all of the strike outs. It's pretty hard to hit .300, when you strike out 25% to 30% of the time. Even that potent Cleveland lineup, is featuring lots of guys hitting below .275. With so many fire ballers coming out of the bull pens, and the emphasis on homers, there just aren't that many high average hitters, anymore. Among all MLB "qualifiers," there are only 50 players hitting .275 or better. That is less than 2 players, per team. 

Edited by Lillian
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33 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Yes, that's true, however that seems to be the norm, in this era. Even the good offensive teams don't seem to have very many high average hitters. It's a function of all of the strike outs. It's pretty hard to hit .300, when you strike out 25% to 30% of the time. Even that potent Cleveland lineup, is featuring lots of guys hitting below .275. With so many fire ballers coming out of the bull pens, and the emphasis on homers, there just aren't that many high average hitters, anymore. Among all MLB "qualifiers," there are only 50 players hitting .275 or better. That is less than 2 players, per team. 

And only 16 or so who are over .300

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34 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Yes, that's true, however that seems to be the norm, in this era. Even the good offensive teams don't seem to have very many high average hitters. It's a function of all of the strike outs. It's pretty hard to hit .300, when you strike out 25% to 30% of the time. Even that potent Cleveland lineup, is featuring lots of guys hitting below .275. With so many fire ballers coming out of the bull pens, and the emphasis on homers, there just aren't that many high average hitters, anymore. Among all MLB "qualifiers," there are only 50 players hitting .275 or better. That is less than 2 players, per team. 

That's astounding. Ironically, the 2 players we have are our catchers lol.

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10 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Would love to see him walk a bit more before I think we can feel comfortable with him as a long term option for the contention window. He honestly reminds me a bit of pre-2018 left-handed version of Adam Duvall right now. That has value, but not as a main 3, 4, 5 spot in the lineup.

Yeah I wouldn't mind him in the 6 or 7 spot and as a DH.

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9 hours ago, Lillian said:

Yes, that's true, however that seems to be the norm, in this era. Even the good offensive teams don't seem to have very many high average hitters. It's a function of all of the strike outs. It's pretty hard to hit .300, when you strike out 25% to 30% of the time. Even that potent Cleveland lineup, is featuring lots of guys hitting below .275. With so many fire ballers coming out of the bull pens, and the emphasis on homers, there just aren't that many high average hitters, anymore. Among all MLB "qualifiers," there are only 50 players hitting .275 or better. That is less than 2 players, per team. 

 

 

23 hours ago, Lillian said:

The statistic that I find most intriguing is his home run rate of one in every 15 at bats. That makes him a bonafide "slugger," and has the potential to fill the void of that elusive, middle of the order, left handed bat. If he can maintain that, going forward, that is one hole filled. Now, do they keep Avi and Abreu, next season and try to fill out the rotation, or do they trade them, and delay the contention window, until 2020, or beyond? What the front office does with those two will probably tell us, in which direction they want to go.  A lineup of Moncada, Avi, Abreu, Palka Eloy, Narvaez, Anderson etc, is probably good enough, if they have the pitching. 

The low batting average doesn't concern  me as much as the quality. The White Sox are currently 12th in the AL in runs scored and above you are telling me that adding Eloy and having Palka and Narvaez for a full season will be "probably good enough"? Seriously, go compare that to the Red Sox with Betts and Martinez, or the Native Americans with Ramirez, Lindor, and Encarnacion, or the Astros with Bregman, Correa, Altuve, and Springer, that lineup is no where close to on their level next year, not with Eloy as a rookie, he'd have to hit like 2003 Bonds to put us in a sentence with them. You add in Bryce Harper and this still isn't a top 4 offense in the AL. And that's still not even talking about the pitching, and I'll ask anyone out there if they think Rodon and Giolito is a good matchup for Kluber and Bauer or Verlander and Cole and or Severino and whoever or Sale and Price. And then on top of all of that, this team is currently at the bottom of the league in defense which Eloy isn't going to fix, so no it's not "Good enough" for next year.

In a few years, with Kopech back and more time to grow for guys, and hopefully at some point a breakout year from Moncada, and the boost from the guys currently down at A-ball, then we can start talking about this being "Good enough". The Free Agent market and Eloy aren't going to take a team that is bottom 6 in offense, defense, and pitching and put them in the playoff conversation. Not next year.

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If it's time to start the clock on Eloy, next year, it seems a waste not to try to compete. Another year of Rodon's contract will be wasted, as well as Avi and Abreu's last year. Why not try to compete next year and then move into the next phase, with a few more of the prospects, like Madrigal, Adolfo, Robert Cease, Dunning etc?

The Sox have plenty of money, as we have discussed. We have enough pieces, to begin to try to compete, with the addition of one more bat and one more arm. This team doesn't need to sign Harper or Machado, on a 10 year deal. I'd prefer to see them spend that money on 3 players, all of whom are a little older and willing to sign for 2 to 4 years. Donaldson is a good example of a guy who could help but not require a long term deal. You put Donaldson at 3RD and you have a solid infield and a potent lineup, providing Moncada and Anderson improve. If they don't, or regress, the rebuild would have big problems, as those are two key core pieces. Add Corbin to the rotation of Rodon, Lopez, Giolito and whoever takes the 5TH slot, and again, they could compete, unless they don't get some progress out of Lopez and Giolito. And, if they don't progress, that too would be a serious problem for the rebuild. 

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18 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Would love to see him walk a bit more before I think we can feel comfortable with him as a long term option for the contention window. He honestly reminds me a bit of pre-2018 left-handed version of Adam Duvall right now. That has value, but not as a main 3, 4, 5 spot in the lineup.

Granted he looked silly on some breaking balls this week so he will have to learn to lay off. He has the emotional makeup to be successful and he expects to succeed. Never batted in the bigs before the Sox. He deserves at least another year to DH. I hope Elroy does not end up there but his glove may be suspect. Lord knows we need more offense. 

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8 hours ago, Lillian said:

If it's time to start the clock on Eloy, next year, it seems a waste not to try to compete. Another year of Rodon's contract will be wasted, as well as Avi and Abreu's last year. Why not try to compete next year and then move into the next phase, with a few more of the prospects, like Madrigal, Adolfo, Robert Cease, Dunning etc?

The Sox have plenty of money, as we have discussed. We have enough pieces, to begin to try to compete, with the addition of one more bat and one more arm. This team doesn't need to sign Harper or Machado, on a 10 year deal. I'd prefer to see them spend that money on 3 players, all of whom are a little older and willing to sign for 2 to 4 years. Donaldson is a good example of a guy who could help but not require a long term deal. You put Donaldson at 3RD and you have a solid infield and a potent lineup, providing Moncada and Anderson improve. If they don't, or regress, the rebuild would have big problems, as those are two key core pieces. Add Corbin to the rotation of Rodon, Lopez, Giolito and whoever takes the 5TH slot, and again, they could compete, unless they don't get some progress out of Lopez and Giolito. And, if they don't progress, that too would be a serious problem for the rebuild. 

Lillian: With respect they need a hell of a lot more than just one more bat and one more arm. Try two solid starters, basically a brand new bullpen, at least three guys, and a new outfield. It would also help if they could get a catcher who can both hit a little and actually catch the baseball.

2019 is going to be another very long season.

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6 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Lillian: With respect they need a hell of a lot more than just one more bat and one more arm. Try two solid starters, basically a brand new bullpen, at least three guys, and a new outfield. It would also help if they could get a catcher who can both hit a little and actually catch the baseball.

2019 is going to be another very long season.

If Rodon, Lopez, Giolito and a solid #2 through free agency, like Corbin, wouldn't give them a solid front four, then the rebuild has serious problems. It's reasonable to hope for Giolito and Lopez to take a step forward. They have shown flashes of being very good, but inconsistent. Covey is probably OK, as a 5TH starter, for one year until Kopech and Cease arrive in 2020..

If next year's outfield of Eloy in LF and Avi in RF and whoever can provide plus defense in CF, wouldn't be adequate, then we are going to be disappointed in Eloy.

The bullpen is a wild card, as always, but there are some decent options. 

What is so lacking in an offense featuring Moncada, Avi, Donaldson, Abreu, Palka, Eloy, Narvaez, Anderson and whoever plays CF.

 

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