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southsider2k5

2018 White Sox catch-all thread

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The following projections for 2019 seems reasonable, if Moncada and Palka can improve a little, in their second full seasons:

                               HR       AVG.    OBP

2B Moncada.            25          .250       .350   

3B Donaldson.         35          .275       .375

1B Abreu                  30            .290      .350

DH Palka                   30            .250      .330

LF  Eloy                      25            .280      .340

C   Narvaez               10            .270       .360

RF Avi.                        25.           .280       .330

SS Anderson             20            .250        .300

CF Engel (With that offense and Eloy and Avi at the corners, his defense in CF would justify below average offense)

Edited by Lillian

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1 hour ago, Lillian said:

The following projections for 2019 seems reasonable, if Moncada and Palka can improve a little, in their second full seasons:

                               HR       AVG.    OBP

2B Moncada.            25          .250       .350   

3B Donaldson.         35          .275       .375

1B Abreu                  30            .290      .350

DH Palka                   30            .250      .330

LF  Eloy                      25            .280      .340

C   Narvaez               10            .270       .360

RF Avi.                        25.           .280       .330

SS Anderson             20            .250        .300

CF Engel (With that offense and Eloy and Avi at the corners, his defense in CF would justify below average offense)

The only thing that would hold Donaldson back from those numbers is his health. He should probably sit once a week (and/or DH another game every week) to help stay on the field. 

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So everyone is going to improve. I would love to live in that reality. 

In all seriousness, if that is what the team would be counting on, it's going to be a really long road to contention.

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1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

So everyone is going to improve. I would love to live in that reality. 

In all seriousness, if that is what the team would be counting on, it's going to be a really long road to contention.

The only ones, for whom I projected better numbers than their historical norm are Moncada and Palka, the two rookies. Everyone else pretty much has the kind of projected stats, which would be consistent with what they have done, weighted more heavily for the last couple of years, in the case of someone like Avi, who only "broke out" last year. Certainly Abreu and Donaldson have both performed at that level, or better. There is no track record for Eloy, of course, but those numbers seem reasonable, for our projected "Super Star" of the future, even if in his rookie year.

Yes, I indeed stated that the young pitchers would need to improve, but that is both a reasonable expectation and one which better transpire, or this rebuild is in serious question. I think with Rodon and Corbin at the top of the rotation, Lopez and Giolito should be able to fill the #3 and #4 spots. If neither of them are going to fulfill that expectation, then I guess we have to wait and hope the Sox can find some arms to fill out the rotation, behind Kopech and Cease, in 2020 and beyond. Dunning could certainly be one of those guys, but Hansen is a huge question mark. 

Edited by Lillian

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6 hours ago, Lillian said:

If Rodon, Lopez, Giolito and a solid #2 through free agency, like Corbin, wouldn't give them a solid front four, then the rebuild has serious problems. It's reasonable to hope for Giolito and Lopez to take a step forward. They have shown flashes of being very good, but inconsistent. Covey is probably OK, as a 5TH starter, for one year until Kopech and Cease arrive in 2020..

If next year's outfield of Eloy in LF and Avi in RF and whoever can provide plus defense in CF, wouldn't be adequate, then we are going to be disappointed in Eloy.

The bullpen is a wild card, as always, but there are some decent options. 

What is so lacking in an offense featuring Moncada, Avi, Donaldson, Abreu, Palka, Eloy, Narvaez, Anderson and whoever plays CF.

 

Covey shouldn't even be a 5th starter in double A, if you are actually trying to compete next year you need five solid starters, not four, (two of who are young and one has an injury history). Look back at the White Sox staffs of 1996, 2003 and 2004 to see the impact of not having a solid back end starter on your staff. When I said three outfielders I was counting Eloy as one of them. Both A. Garcia and L. Garcia need to be sent packing if for no other reason they are useless always being injured. 

I go back to the basic premise, unless the Sox dramatically overspend in their offer why would anybody want to sign with a franchise that has had six straight losing seasons, nine out of the last 12 and have shown little growth potential as of yet? (because most of the best prospects are either injured or still a few years away.)

Maybe I'm wrong, I've basically forgotten what meaningful September games are like save for watching my tapes and DVD's of the Sox in better years, but I can't see 2019 being worth a damn either at this point.

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Patrick Corbin may be a Top 10 pitcher in baseball, with a pretty good track record. The 30 year old will probably get $125-150M contract. Not sure ownership will go there. 

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2 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Covey shouldn't even be a 5th starter in double A, if you are actually trying to compete next year you need five solid starters, not four, (two of who are young and one has an injury history). Look back at the White Sox staffs of 1996, 2003 and 2004 to see the impact of not having a solid back end starter on your staff. When I said three outfielders I was counting Eloy as one of them. Both A. Garcia and L. Garcia need to be sent packing if for no other reason they are useless always being injured. 

I go back to the basic premise, unless the Sox dramatically overspend in their offer why would anybody want to sign with a franchise that has had six straight losing seasons, nine out of the last 12 and have shown little growth potential as of yet? (because most of the best prospects are either injured or still a few years away.)

Maybe I'm wrong, I've basically forgotten what meaningful September games are like save for watching my tapes and DVD's of the Sox in better years, but I can't see 2019 being worth a damn either at this point.

No, and no.

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Just now, southsider2k5 said:

No, and no.

I was referring to Lillian's post since she is advocating that they do. I don't see how it is even remotely possible.

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So then, I assume that you gentlemen favor trading Abreu and Avi, for more prospects, and simply tanking again, next year, in hopes of acquiring more high Draft choices. I wouldn't expect to get much for Avi, after his injury plagued year. Not sure what Jose would bring either, given his age and his being a first baseman/DH.

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41 minutes ago, Baker said:

Patrick Corbin may be a Top 10 pitcher in baseball, with a pretty good track record. The 30 year old will probably get $125-150M contract. Not sure ownership will go there. 

I've asked before without an answer, why is there the love fest for Corbin.  Top 10?????????  Maybe this season, but overall? Going forward?

Coming into this season he had a 4.12 ERA, a WHIP of 1.35, 7.9 K/9, and was 45-47.  Even factoring in this year, his ERA this season is almost a full run lower than his career number.  

Yeah, he has been great this year, and Arizona is a tough place to pitch.  He will be turning 30 during next season and this year will be the 2nd of his career working 200 innings.  He will probably get it, but going beyond 13-15 million / 4-5 years (even that is probably more than I'd give him if I were the GM) seems crazy for him. 

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Just now, turnin' two said:

I've asked before without an answer, why is there the love fest for Corbin.  Top 10?????????  Maybe this season, but overall? Going forward?

Coming into this season he had a 4.12 ERA, a WHIP of 1.35, 7.9 K/9, and was 45-47.  Even factoring in this year, his ERA this season is almost a full run lower than his career number.  

Yeah, he has been great this year, and Arizona is a tough place to pitch.  He will be turning 30 during next season and this year will be the 2nd of his career working 200 innings.  He will probably get it, but going beyond 13-15 million / 4-5 years (even that is probably more than I'd give him if I were the GM) seems crazy for him. 

I maybe the only one, but he screams contract year to me.   I have zero interest in  $100 million deal with him.  Every single major stat of his is a career year BY FAR.

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1 hour ago, Lillian said:

So then, I assume that you gentlemen favor trading Abreu and Avi, for more prospects, and simply tanking again, next year, in hopes of acquiring more high Draft choices. I wouldn't expect to get much for Avi, after his injury plagued year. Not sure what Jose would bring either, given his age and his being a first baseman/DH.

Yes. I agree they should explore options for trading both those guys. I'd like to keep Jose' around if but they can get something decent for him, you move him. Regarding A.Garcia, since the guy is a walking injury waiting to happen they won't get much for him anyway so personally I wouldn't care if they just cut him. Just tired of his bad defense and ability to always be hurt.

Believe me I don't like tanking. These are the Chicago White Sox not the San Diego Padres or Pittsburgh Pirates but with so many kids still two years away it is the logical thing to do (short of ownership spending millions on free agents which they really haven't done much and when they do they fall right on their faces.)

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4 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Yes. I agree they should explore options for trading both those guys. I'd like to keep Jose' around if but they can get something decent for him, you move him. Regarding A.Garcia, since the guy is a walking injury waiting to happen they won't get much for him anyway so personally I wouldn't care if they just cut him. Just tired of his bad defense and ability to always be hurt.

Believe me I don't like tanking. These are the Chicago White Sox not the San Diego Padres or Pittsburgh Pirates but with so many kids still two years away it is the logical thing to do (short of ownership spending millions on free agents which they really haven't done much and when they do they fall right on their faces.)

I agree with most of this except the part about spending millions. They shouldn't next year, unless one great player falls into them. They have many prospectswaiting to come up in 2020. Why take the chance now. Wait to see which prospects succeed and which won't don't 

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We need to start winning more games NEXT year to maintain fan interest. I don't want to see any more tanking nor do I want to overspend millions on free agents (primo free agents won't come here unless we're the highest bidder). 

I think we can accomplish this.  Improvement should come in the everyday lineup (with Eloy added) and the 3 starting pitchers we currently have in the rotation (no Shields and no Kopech next year).  There are several options for the  other 2 starters yet to be determined

Where we do need to spend on help is for 2 or 3 affordable bullpen pitchers.  With a couple of exceptions, the current guys are obviously not cutting it.  Too many blown leads late in the game.  

We're not going to compete for a division title next year, but we do need to improve to 70-75 wins and then a winning record in 2020 when more of the "future of the team" makes it to the big club. 

 

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3 hours ago, turnin' two said:

I've asked before without an answer, why is there the love fest for Corbin.  Top 10?????????  Maybe this season, but overall? Going forward?

Coming into this season he had a 4.12 ERA, a WHIP of 1.35, 7.9 K/9, and was 45-47.  Even factoring in this year, his ERA this season is almost a full run lower than his career number.  

Yeah, he has been great this year, and Arizona is a tough place to pitch.  He will be turning 30 during next season and this year will be the 2nd of his career working 200 innings.  He will probably get it, but going beyond 13-15 million / 4-5 years (even that is probably more than I'd give him if I were the GM) seems crazy for him. 

He is currently the second best starting pitcher on the free agent market behind Kershaw and the New York Yankees will have a S***ton of money to spend and he's already talked about pitching for the Yankees. So yeah, he'll be signing a massive deal. With the Yankees.

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57 minutes ago, bubba phillips said:

We need to start winning more games NEXT year to maintain fan interest. I don't want to see any more tanking nor do I want to overspend millions on free agents (primo free agents won't come here unless we're the highest bidder). 

I think we can accomplish this.  Improvement should come in the everyday lineup (with Eloy added) and the 3 starting pitchers we currently have in the rotation (no Shields and no Kopech next year).  There are several options for the  other 2 starters yet to be determined

Where we do need to spend on help is for 2 or 3 affordable bullpen pitchers.  With a couple of exceptions, the current guys are obviously not cutting it.  Too many blown leads late in the game.  

We're not going to compete for a division title next year, but we do need to improve to 70-75 wins and then a winning record in 2020 when more of the "future of the team" makes it to the big club. 

 

The first sentence lost me. Sox fans are primo bandwagon fans. Ratings and attendance losses have accelerated with the rebuild,  so it isn't like they have been faithful to this point.

The one thing I know is the fans will start showing up when the winning starts, even it still takes years more.

 

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10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The first sentence lost me. Sox fans are primo bandwagon fans. Ratings and attendance losses have accelerated with the rebuild,  so it isn't like they have been faithful to this point.

The one thing I know is the fans will start showing up when the winning starts, even it still takes years more.

 

I hear ya.  I meant the fans that are still left.  One thing about us Sox fans (which I like) is that we treat the product on the field the same way any consumer treats any product:  if it's no good, don't buy it.  I don't believe in filling the stadium for a last place team (like the Cubs were famous for).   

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2 minutes ago, bubba phillips said:

I hear ya.  I meant the fans that are still left.  One thing about us Sox fans (which I like) is that we treat the product on the field the same way any consumer treats any product:  if it's no good, don't buy it.  I don't believe in filling the stadium for a last place team (like the Cubs were famous for).   

Yet it allowed the Cubs to buy cornerstones during their rebuilding. 

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1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

He is currently the second best starting pitcher on the free agent market behind Kershaw and the New York Yankees will have a S***ton of money to spend and he's already talked about pitching for the Yankees. So yeah, he'll be signing a massive deal. With the Yankees.

I have no doubt there.  I just don't personally get it I guess.  

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1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Yet it allowed the Cubs to buy cornerstones during their rebuilding. 

It was more than just fan attendance though and their exceptional marketing / promotion department had a lot to do with building the Wrigly Field culture regardless of how the team was doing on the field. John McDonough was a genius at this approach.

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13 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

It was more than just fan attendance though and their exceptional marketing / promotion department had a lot to do with building the Wrigly Field culture regardless of how the team was doing on the field. John McDonough was a genius at this approach.

In addition, in the late  part of the rebuilding, there were many no-shows at Wrigley. Attendance figures stem from tickets sold, not fans in the seats.  Even Cub fans had enough of losing. From 1945-2015, the Cubs had 45 losing seasons. Anyone would tire of that crap.

Sox fans are always accused of being bandwagon jumpers. Bandwagon jumpers only go when the team wins. The Sox have won exactly one World Series in the past 101 years. They have no post season appearances in the last 10 years. How about this? Instead of blaming fans for all this failure, how about putting out a winning team for a change? And if the Sox want people to come out, stop hating their own fans. That would help, too. 

The White Sox have a feeling of entitlement. They aren't entitled to anything.  No go out there and win something and stop the whining.

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14 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

It was more than just fan attendance though and their exceptional marketing / promotion department had a lot to do with building the Wrigly Field culture regardless of how the team was doing on the field. John McDonough was a genius at this approach.

Sure it was fan loyalty.

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18 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The first sentence lost me. Sox fans are primo bandwagon fans. Ratings and attendance losses have accelerated with the rebuild,  so it isn't like they have been faithful to this point.

The one thing I know is the fans will start showing up when the winning starts, even it still takes years more.

 

Yes. Bandwagon fans are bandwagon fans. They'll appear when the Sox start winning whether it's 2019 or 2020. There is no need to get impatient now.

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On 9/21/2018 at 1:15 PM, Lip Man 1 said:

Covey shouldn't even be a 5th starter in double A, if you are actually trying to compete next year you need five solid starters, not four, (two of who are young and one has an injury history). Look back at the White Sox staffs of 1996, 2003 and 2004 to see the impact of not having a solid back end starter on your staff. When I said three outfielders I was counting Eloy as one of them. Both A. Garcia and L. Garcia need to be sent packing if for no other reason they are useless always being injured. 

I go back to the basic premise, unless the Sox dramatically overspend in their offer why would anybody want to sign with a franchise that has had six straight losing seasons, nine out of the last 12 and have shown little growth potential as of yet? (because most of the best prospects are either injured or still a few years away.)

Maybe I'm wrong, I've basically forgotten what meaningful September games are like save for watching my tapes and DVD's of the Sox in better years, but I can't see 2019 being worth a damn either at this point.

I'm not trying to be a "smart aleck," and I don't know exactly what to think of Covey, myself. However, I'm just wondering if you have reconsidered your assessment of his future, with the Sox. One has to be impressed with his stuff. If he can learn to be consistent, it seems that he is certainly at least a legitimate 5TH starter, on a good staff. This seems to be an important question to answer, as he could really help fill out next year's rotation, while the Sox wait for Kopech, Cease and Dunning, in 2020. 

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