Moncada

[Jack Parkman]

Ah, yes well if batting average is how we will judge Moncada's success then I imagine he will bust.

IMO if you're hitting around .240 you have to hit 40 bombs or you're not useful.

[Chicago White Sox]

IMO if you're hitting around .240 you have to hit 40 bombs or you're not useful.

You’ve really been saying some mind-boggling things lately. Moncada batted .230 last year and still put a wRC+ of 104 and would have been worth 3 to 4 WAR depending on his defense. Maybe not the ideal outcome, but certainly a useful player.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Chicago White Sox

[bmags]

IMO if you're hitting around .240 you have to hit 40 bombs or you're not useful.

 

For a .240 player that doesn't hit 40 bombs to be "not useful" they would need to be:

- Bat only

- Have no baserunning value

 

This is why it's so crazy to be this fatalistic about Moncada this early in. He has so many plus tools any one of them could be used to pull him into "good" territory. And if the hit tool develops into average, he suddenly becomes "very good".

 

We may find that his hit tool is so off he is never an MVP player. That sucks. But man, there is a lot of baseball left to be played.

 

Justin Smoak and Yonder Alonso 8 years into their careers suddenly became very useful players. You don't want that for Moncada, but there are good signs with him.

[footlongcomiskeydog]

Would it be out of the question to consider sending Moncada down to AAA for a bit?

 

I thought this kid was supposed to be a can't miss prospect? Rick Hahn should be handed his walking papers if Moncada is back in a Knights uniform this year. Moncada has nothing left to learn in AAA. Let's see if he is/was all hype or if he is ready to rumble with the big boys.

[footlongcomiskeydog]

A can't miss prospect is as real as a unicorn.

 

That's on you if you believed he was "can't miss"

 

Absolutely not true. Bryce Harper, Kris Bryant, and Carlos Correa all say hello.

 

 

[harkness99]

No such thing as a "can"t miss prospect"

 

Giving a bunch of hyped prospects that turned out well does not disprove that...

 

It's early on Moncada for sure.. but he sure looks like he has a real inability to hit an offspeed pitch.

[bmags]

Absolutely not true. Bryce Harper, Kris Bryant, and Carlos Correa all say hello.

 

You are just using the fact that you know their outcomes to paint the picture of inevitability. Kris Bryant looked really good, he also had swing and miss which could have derailed him (it didn't). Same with Correa.

 

Harper, compared to the hype, has been fairly inconsistent with lots of injuries and only one true great year.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

For a .240 player that doesn't hit 40 bombs to be "not useful" they would need to be:

- Bat only

- Have no baserunning value

 

This is why it's so crazy to be this fatalistic about Moncada this early in. He has so many plus tools any one of them could be used to pull him into "good" territory. And if the hit tool develops into average, he suddenly becomes "very good".

 

We may find that his hit tool is so off he is never an MVP player. That sucks. But man, there is a lot of baseball left to be played.

 

Justin Smoak and Yonder Alonso 8 years into their careers suddenly became very useful players. You don't want that for Moncada, but there are good signs with him.

 

If it takes him 8 years to figure it out, he won't be on the Sox when he does..

[footlongcomiskeydog]

You are just using the fact that you know their outcomes to paint the picture of inevitability. Kris Bryant looked really good, he also had swing and miss which could have derailed him (it didn't). Same with Correa.

 

Harper, compared to the hype, has been fairly inconsistent with lots of injuries and only one true great year.

 

No. I'm saying that can't miss prospects do exist especially on the position player side of thing. They are extremely rare but they do exist.

 

Ken Griffey Junior would be the textbook example. There are stories out there about when his Dad was playing for Cincy and Griffey was in high school. Junior would come to practice at the age of 17 and was already a better player than half of the Reds roster. Kid was a can't miss prospect

 

Harper is a stud. Dude was so can't miss he skipped his senior year of high school. There is a reason he is going to get close to a half billion dollars this Winter.

[southsider2k5]

I thought this kid was supposed to be a can't miss prospect? Rick Hahn should be handed his walking papers if Moncada is back in a Knights uniform this year. Moncada has nothing left to learn in AAA. Let's see if he is/was all hype or if he is ready to rumble with the big boys.

 

This might be a hot take, but Benetendi was more of a "can't miss" than Moncada. Moncada has always been a really raw player. Benetendi had less holes in his game.

[fathom]

Moncada's stock was way down compared to what it had been a few months before when the WSox got him. I know I follow KLaw closely to a fault, but he wasn't even a top 5 guy anymore for him. Boston clearly saw some things they were concerned about, which is why he was no longer untouchable. It's up to the WSox and Yoan to fix these holes now

[bmags]

No. I'm saying that can't miss prospects do exist especially on the position player side of thing. They are extremely rare but they do exist.

 

Ken Griffey Junior would be the textbook example. There are stories out there about when his Dad was playing for Cincy and Griffey was in high school. Junior would come to practice at the age of 17 and was already a better player than half of the Reds roster. Kid was a can't miss prospect

 

Harper is a stud. Dude was so can't miss he skipped his senior year of high school. There is a reason he is going to get close to a half billion dollars this Winter.

 

Yes I agree good baseball players have existed. That does not mean the can't miss label had a 100% success rate. Matt Wieters was baseball jesus. Just a year ago Kevin Maitan was the next Miguel Cabrera.

 

Baseball ¯\_(?)_/¯

[fathom]

Yoan started off great in AAA last year, but his numbers really faded. Still way too many strikeouts and you would expect a higher OPS in a great hitters park from someone who could come up and dominate in the majors. I know I shared on here the in-person reports I was told about his poor body language and lazy at bats

[southsideirish71]

Hitting a baseball is hard. The issue as they make that climb over AA is the quality of breaking pitches they see. Lots of these guys can hit fastballs. In fact is hard to advance to AA without being able to hit a fastball. And most of these guys can hit average secondary pitches. But once they cross the line into the majors their flaws are picked apart by advanced scouts. They have to adjust and prove they can either hit X pitch, lay off X pitch, or jump on the fastball and not get in between. Some of them it just happens right away, others take time to develop this. And some it just never happens. Hopefully with Yoan its just mechanical aspects and getting ABs. He has the luxury of being on a rebuilding team. He has time to take his lumps. Hopefully, he comes out on the other end of this a better overall player.

Edited April 17, 2018 by southsideirish71

[Chicago White Sox]

Moncada's stock was way down compared to what it had been a few months before when the WSox got him. I know I follow KLaw closely to a fault, but he wasn't even a top 5 guy anymore for him. Boston clearly saw some things they were concerned about, which is why he was no longer untouchable. It's up to the WSox and Yoan to fix these holes now

Ehh, Law may have been down on him, but the rest of the prospect community universally considered him a top 3 prospect and some still had him right at the top.

[fathom]

Hitting a baseball is hard. The issue as they make that climb over AA is the quality of breaking pitches they see. Lots of these guys can hit fastballs. In fact is hard to advance to AA without being able to hit a fastball. And most of these guys can hit average secondary pitches. But once they cross the line into the majors their flaws are picked apart by advanced scouts. They have to adjust and prove they can either hit X pitch, lay off X pitch, or jump on the fastball and not get in between. Some of them it just happens right away, others take time to develop this. And some it just never happens. Hopefully with Yoan its just mechanical aspects and getting ABs.

 

I remember you and I being stunned at how Josh Fields simply forgot how to hit fastballs after a promising start. I'm not seeing that with Yoan.

[Jack Parkman]

For a .240 player that doesn't hit 40 bombs to be "not useful" they would need to be:

- Bat only

- Have no baserunning value

 

This is why it's so crazy to be this fatalistic about Moncada this early in. He has so many plus tools any one of them could be used to pull him into "good" territory. And if the hit tool develops into average, he suddenly becomes "very good".

 

We may find that his hit tool is so off he is never an MVP player. That sucks. But man, there is a lot of baseball left to be played.

 

Justin Smoak and Yonder Alonso 8 years into their careers suddenly became very useful players. You don't want that for Moncada, but there are good signs with him.

I'm actually not trying to be horribly fatalistic about Moncada. He just looks so bad. Like worse than other Sox prospects who flopped. I mean, he looks worse than Beckham ever did. That is what is scary. It seems almost like the proverbial blind squirrel/nut analogy when he gets a hit. It seems he's slightly better than Engel, who everyone agrees isn't a major league hitter. I'm not saying he can't turn it around, but wow he looks awful currently. Replace the # 10 on the back of his jersey with #15 and what would you think?

Edited April 17, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[Balta1701]

Yoan started off great in AAA last year, but his numbers really faded. Still way too many strikeouts and you would expect a higher OPS in a great hitters park from someone who could come up and dominate in the majors. I know I shared on here the in-person reports I was told about his poor body language and lazy at bats

Part of the reason he faded was that he was dealing with a hand injury in May and June of some sort.

 

That said...if this were my franchise I would not have called Moncada up last July. He was going to have to earn his callup in my eyes by being ready at AAA. The White Sox don't play things that way and he got called up, and held his own better than I expected. But, his callup was still definitely early.

[Jack Parkman]

Part of the reason he faded was that he was dealing with a hand injury in May and June of some sort.

 

That said...if this were my franchise I would not have called Moncada up last July. He was going to have to earn his callup in my eyes by being ready at AAA. The White Sox don't play things that way and he got called up, and held his own better than I expected. But, his callup was still definitely early.

I agree Balta, I don't think he was ready last year and I don't think he is now either. I'd like to see him go to Charlotte and completely destroy AAA before getting called up again .

Edited April 17, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[iamshack]

I'm actually not trying to be horribly fatalistic about Moncada. He just looks so bad. Like worse than other Sox prospects who flopped. I mean, he looks worse than Beckham ever did. That is what is scary. It seems almost like the proverbial blind squirrel/nut analogy when he gets a hit. It seems he's slightly better than Engel, who everyone agrees isn't a major league hitter. I'm not saying he can't turn it around, but wow he looks awful currently.

I couldn’t disagree more.

 

Yoan has a the hard part down: he understands the strike zone.

 

Many prospects, and many current Sox players, for that matter, do not understand the strike zone/see pitches nearly as well.

 

Secondly, when he does make contact, he’s crushing balls.

 

Clearly he has some swing and miss to his game, and that is always going to be the case. However, I think the funk he’s in is just one where he’s trying to stay true to his approach a bit too much, in the face of the League making adjustments to that approach. He’s getting behind in the count far too often, because he has a tendency to look at the first pitch. From there, he just struggles because he’s so often 0-2, 1-2. I think yesterday’s first PA was perfect. He needs to be ready to jump on that first pitch if its grooved right in the zone until the League stops doing that. Just that adjustment alone I think would have major positive consequences.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

I couldn’t disagree more.

 

Yoan has a the hard part down: he understands the strike zone.

 

Many prospects, and many current Sox players, for that matter, do not understand the strike zone/see pitches nearly as well.

 

Secondly, when he does make contact, he’s crushing balls.

 

Clearly he has some swing and miss to his game, and that is always going to be the case. However, I think the funk he’s in is just one where he’s trying to stay true to his approach a bit too much, in the face of the League making adjustments to that approach. He’s getting behind in the count far too often, because he has a tendency to look at the first pitch. From there, he just struggles because he’s so often 0-2, 1-2. I think yesterday’s first PA was perfect. He needs to be ready to jump on that first pitch if its grooved right in the zone until the League stops doing that. Just that adjustment alone I think would have major positive consequences.

 

Does he though? He gets lots of walks, yes! But he also strikes out looking more than stevie Wonder would.

[Balta1701]

I agree Balta, I don't think he was ready last year and I don't think he is now either. I'd like to see him go to Charlotte and completely destroy AAA before getting called up again .

Now that he's up, I would not send him back down until we have no other options. He gets > the 2018 season at the big leagues to figure things out. This year doesn't matter for Ws and Ls anyway so that's good time for him to struggle against big league pitching and hopefully have the lightswitch go on.

[chitownsportsfan]

I couldn’t disagree more.

 

Yoan has a the hard part down: he understands the strike zone.

 

Many prospects, and many current Sox players, for that matter, do not understand the strike zone/see pitches nearly as well.

 

Secondly, when he does make contact, he’s crushing balls.

 

Clearly he has some swing and miss to his game, and that is always going to be the case. However, I think the funk he’s in is just one where he’s trying to stay true to his approach a bit too much, in the face of the League making adjustments to that approach. He’s getting behind in the count far too often, because he has a tendency to look at the first pitch. From there, he just struggles because he’s so often 0-2, 1-2. I think yesterday’s first PA was perfect. He needs to be ready to jump on that first pitch if its grooved right in the zone until the League stops doing that. Just that adjustment alone I think would have major positive consequences.

 

For sure. I think the leadoff spot has put some added pressure on him to see pitches as well. But, if that's his long term spot in the order than it's better to get these teething issues out of the way ASAP.

 

one thing so far is that for the most part, he has not taken his problems at the plate into the field. He's made some really nice plays and has limited his boneheaded mistakes.

[Jack Parkman]

I'm not sure that we're confusing a good eye for complete lack of pitch recognition. He might be a patient hitter, but he looks at strike 3 way too much for me to believe that. If he was taking them and they were borderline calls that were going against him, I'd tend to agree. He's taking hangers and fastballs that are excellent pitches to hit for strike 3; pitches that cross in the heart of the strike zone.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[Dick Allen]

Anyone check out the graphic between Moncada's first 300 + plate appearances and Paulies? Except for whiffs, Moncada's numbers are far superior.