TaylorStSox Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Aside from the obvious talent, he was raking before he went on the DL and he's been struggling since coming back from the DL. Shocking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 3 hours ago, tlongo81@gmail.com said: I think the Sox would make this trade in a hearbeat if Cashman would agree to it. You wouldn't know it by following the Sox, but sometimes highly ranked prospects actually come up to the Show and produce right away. Crazy to think that Moncada was pretty much ranked higher than this kid by everyone a year ago. My how the tables have turned.. Well I'd say Reynaldo Lopez has produced pretty well for the Sox early on. But yeah, I get what you're saying. And we all probably remember that when the rebuild started, after Eaton and Sale were moved, things switched to Q rumors. The Yankees were allegedly one of the biggest suitors. And there was that alleged deal that fell apart on Christmas Eve, which many thought was Q to the Yankees. Could Judge have been part of that? I recall that winter Yankee fans wanted us to take Judge for Q and Sox fans wanted no part of him as a headliner. His stock was down from his slow MLB start I guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footlongcomiskeydog Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 25 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: You literally just illustrated my argument in more detail. Good job, thanks. Aside from that, I never even mentioned his K rate. In what bizarro world did anybody ever say his K rate was good? I'm not certain what your argument is. Cano had better numbers overall than Moncada after 500 career plate appearances. One went on to have a great career. The jury is still very much out on Moncada. The general consensus around here seems to be that Moncada is fine and that there is absolutely nothing to worry about with him. Let's hope that is the case as the flipside is too frightening to contemplate I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, tlongo81@gmail.com said: I'm not certain what your argument is. Cano had better numbers overall than Moncada after 500 career plate appearances. One went on to have a great career. The jury is still very much out on Moncada. The general consensus around here seems to be that Moncada is fine and that there is absolutely nothing to worry about with him. Let's hope that is the case as the flipside is too frightening to contemplate I suppose. The flipside is only frightening if busts come across the board with the Sox top prospects. Even if Moncada, Kopech and Basabe all bomb out and we get crap from the Sale trade. If other guys like Dunning, Hansen, Lopez, Jimenez, Robert...if many of them do reach their potential and the Sox become a mini powerhouse 2-4 years from now, it's all good then. You know when you go in to a rebuild and start making trades like the Sox made, that you're going to get hosed on some of the trades. It's part of the process and it serves no purpose to get worked up about the return on each and every trade. The risk is mostly on the side of the team taking the prospects. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 11 minutes ago, tlongo81@gmail.com said: I'm not certain what your argument is. Cano had better numbers overall than Moncada after 500 career plate appearances. One went on to have a great career. The jury is still very much out on Moncada. The general consensus around here seems to be that Moncada is fine and that there is absolutely nothing to worry about with him. Let's hope that is the case as the flipside is too frightening to contemplate I suppose. I think the general consensus is actually that it is way to early to be panicking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footlongcomiskeydog Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Sarava said: The flipside is only frightening if busts come across the board with the Sox top prospects. Even if Moncada, Kopech and Basabe all bomb out and we get crap from the Sale trade. If other guys like Dunning, Hansen, Lopez, Jimenez, Robert...if many of them do reach their potential and the Sox become a mini powerhouse 2-4 years from now, it's all good then. You know when you go in to a rebuild and start making trades like the Sox made, that you're going to get hosed on some of the trades. It's part of the process and it serves no purpose to get worked up about the return on each and every trade. The risk is mostly on the side of the team taking the prospects. Way too many ifs in this statement for my liking. The Sox need Moncada and Kopech to be studs if they are to become a mini powerhouse in two years. There is a big difference in expected outcomes between the Sale trade and say the Swarzak trade. Getting hosed on trading your biggest chip is how you end up in a never ending rebuild cycle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 22 minutes ago, tlongo81@gmail.com said: Way too many ifs in this statement for my liking. The Sox need Moncada and Kopech to be studs if they are to become a mini powerhouse in two years. There is a big difference in expected outcomes between the Sale trade and say the Swarzak trade. Getting hosed on trading your biggest chip is how you end up in a never ending rebuild cycle. Let’s say Kopech ends up as a good, not great, closer. Let’s say Moncada is out of the league in 5 years. And now let’s say Dunning = Hendricks, Lopez = Severino, Hansen = Wacha, Jimenez = Dye and Robert = McCutchen. That right there is why “if Kopech and Moncada stink, they’re f***ed” is stale already. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 (edited) Soxfan is right, but to be fair, there really is not a chance Yoan Moncada will be out of the league in 5 years unless he suffers a horrific career-ending injury. The dude is in a really bad slump and still has 41 XBH and 10sb and 56bb in 523 ML PAs I think at worst he'll be an above average MLer Edited June 18, 2018 by Greg Hibbard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 12 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said: Soxfan is right, but to be fair, there really is not a chance Yoan Moncada will be out of the league in 5 years unless he suffers a horrific career-ending injury. The dude is in a really bad slump and still has 41 XBH and 10sb and 56bb in 523 ML PAs I think at worst he'll be an above average MLer Exactly. I was just using that as a worst-case scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 (edited) I think it's also worth pointing out that his ISO over the last 28 days is still not horrible given his .165 BA over that same time. Edited June 18, 2018 by Greg Hibbard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footlongcomiskeydog Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 29 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: Let’s say Kopech ends up as a good, not great, closer. Let’s say Moncada is out of the league in 5 years. And now let’s say Dunning = Hendricks, Lopez = Severino, Hansen = Wacha, Jimenez = Dye and Robert = McCutchen. That right there is why “if Kopech and Moncada stink, they’re f***ed” is stale already. I really don't know what to say if you guys honestly don't think Kopech or Moncada are very important cogs in this Sox rebuild. What you describe with all those players has about a 5% chance of happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 26 minutes ago, tlongo81@gmail.com said: I really don't know what to say if you guys honestly don't think Kopech or Moncada are very important cogs in this Sox rebuild. What you describe with all those players has about a 5% chance of happening. All players are that way. Kopech and Moncada certainly have the tools to be great, but all of those guys have a chance to at least be good, if not great. They are absolutely key cogs, but their failures would be magnified x2 if the rest of the farm bombs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 It's more of an indictment on the FO if Moncada and Kopech bomb. Would be pretty pathetic to not get at least 1 above average major league player for one of the best trade chips I can think in the past 5-7 years given the level of talent, years of control and affordability Sale had... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Special K said: It's more of an indictment on the FO if Moncada and Kopech bomb. Would be pretty pathetic to not get at least 1 above average major league player for one of the best trade chips I can think in the past 5-7 years given the level of talent, years of control and affordability Sale had... The FO has much to be blamed for but taking Moncada and Kopech (plus Basabe and Diaz) is not one of them. At the time of the trade, every major rating service considered Moncada a top 3, if not the best prospect in baseball. Kopech was on the ascent as a fireballer with TOR potential. They might both end up disappointing but, at the time, it looked like more than a fair trade. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Flash said: The FO has much to be blamed for but taking Moncada and Kopech (plus Basabe and Diaz) is not one of them. At the time of the trade, every major rating service considered Moncada a top 3, if not the best prospect in baseball. Kopech was on the ascent as a fireballer with TOR potential. They might both end up disappointing but, at the time, it looked like more than a fair trade. 👍👍👍👍👍👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 I honestly can't believe how many people want to call this trade a bust 18 months in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 (edited) 34 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: I honestly can't believe how many people want to call this trade a bust 18 months in. Welcome to Soxtalk! One thing youll find out here is how forgiving and patient the posters are here. Edited June 18, 2018 by ptatc 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, ptatc said: Welcome to Soxtalk! One thing youll find out here is how forgiving and patient the posters are here. Ha IKR. This just seems a new low, you got guys writing off a 23 kid with positive WAR in under 600 pa and some writing off a 22 year old pitcher in AAA. Come on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 (edited) The other factor is that of the big three trades, Moncada, Kopech, Giolito and Jimenez were the four centerpieces that were “sold” to fans. When 3/4 are struggling mightily, those casual fans are going to be less aware of Lopez, Dunning, Cease, Basabe...or even Dylan Covey, for that matter. Not to mention the negative association with previous draft picks like Fulmer or even Hawkins getting released and not landing with another MLB team’s minor league organization. It would essentially be the Sox equivalent of Bryant, Baez, Russell/Schwarber all going south at the same time. Edited June 18, 2018 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 16 minutes ago, ptatc said: Welcome to Soxtalk! One thing youll find out here is how forgiving and patient the posters are here. This is quite literally what I was going to post in a more sarcastic form. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 16 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: The other factor is that of the big three trades, Moncada, Kopech, Giolito and Jimenez were the four centerpieces that were “sold” to fans. When 3/4 are struggling mightily, those casual fans are going to be less aware of Lopez, Dunning, Cease, Basabe...or even Dylan Covey, for that matter. Not to mention the negative association with previous draft picks like Fulmer or even Hawkins getting released and not landing with another MLB team’s minor league organization. It would essentially be the Sox equivalent of Bryant, Baez, Russell/Schwarber all going south at the same time. Good point in terms of perception of casual Sox fan. Hard for them to get excited about rebuild when they see Moncada really struggling. I doubt the casual fan cares how Dunning is doing in AA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Not sure what direction our two middle IF are heading. Patience for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 The White Sox have no casual fans. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footlongcomiskeydog Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said: Ha IKR. This just seems a new low, you got guys writing off a 23 kid with positive WAR in under 600 pa and some writing off a 22 year old pitcher in AAA. Come on. Are there any recent examples of a guy with a near 40% strikeout rate after 500 plate appearances turning into a perennial all star? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 I honestly think the best reason to call up Eloy as soon as possible is to light a fire under Moncada's ass and to show him "it's ok to be good" lol... Whether that's next year or not..that's another argument. But seems to me Moncada needs some sort of "competitive challenge". Eloy stealing the show might just be what he needs. Some will downplay the idea...I don't. Competitive people don't like other people stealing their thunder....just sayin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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