Moncada

[The Sir]

24 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Is there a stat for 0 and 2 counts?  Moncada has to lead the league.

He's 21 for 225 with two strikes, with a .397 OPS. Just picking a random, somewhat similar player in Chris Taylor of the Dodgers, he's got 229 ABs with two strikes for a .558 OPS.

Edit: Just trying random 2018 players, including Happ, Gallo, Harper, Abreu, Pederson, Judge, Machado (I didn't say realistic), I managed to find someone with a worse two-strike OPS: Chris Davis. FWIW.

Edited August 3, 2018 by The Sir

[Dick Allen]

This is part of the problem with interpreting good ABs vs. bad ABs. Players get too selective because a 9 pitch AB that results in a strikeout is considered a better AB than swinging at the first pitch and being robbed of a double by a great defensive play.

The object of being "selective" is not how many pitches you take, it's getting yourself a good pitch to hit. That can happen on pitch 1, it might take a 9 pitch AB. Letting meatballs go by isn't being a good, patient hitter. It's out dumbing yourself. 

Moncada was pretty selective when the Red Sox signed him, and it's one thing the Red Sox organization has harped on. But they did seem to think it was becoming a problem in the last year or so, as they were letting way too many good pitches to hit go by. They are now preaching being a little more aggressive.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Bob Sacamano]

9 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

This is part of the problem with interpreting good ABs vs. bad ABs. Players get too selective because a 9 pitch AB that results in a strikeout is considered a better AB than swinging at the first pitch and being robbed of a double by a great defensive play.

The object of being "selective" is not how many pitches you take, it's getting yourself a good pitch to hit. That can happen on pitch 1, it might take a 9 pitch AB. Letting meatballs go by isn't being a good, patient hitter. It's out dumbing yourself. 

Moncada was pretty selective when the Red Sox signed him, and it's one thing the Red Sox organization has harped on. But they did seem to think it was becoming a problem in the last year or so, as they were letting way too many good pitches to hit go by. They are now preaching being a little more aggressive.

I started playing baseball again last summer. I wish I took more pitches but if the first one is a fastball down the middle, I'm swinging.

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

I started playing baseball again last summer. I wish I took more pitches but if the first one is a fastball down the middle, I'm swinging.

Can you tell it's going to be down the middle if it comes at you at 96?

[Bob Sacamano]

17 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Can you tell it's going to be down the middle if it comes at you at 96?

Nope. Luckily no one throws that hard in my league. Fastest is 85 and on my team lol

Edited August 3, 2018 by soxfan2014

[35thstreetswarm]

13 hours ago, tlongo81@gmail.com said:

I'm a fellow Illini so you shouldn't be too skeptical. 

I'm lazy and never changed my username back after the forum got back from its vacation/hiatus.

Maybe I'll do that tomorrow.

Try "CubFan4Life" or "BrixenIvy" -- or whatever handle you use when you post that lone comment on a White Sox Trib article with a crack about bad attendance/the Ligue brothers/the "White Sux".

[Jake]

There's nothing wrong with saying that Moncada either...

1. Takes so many called third strikes because his eye is not as good as we would like to think — that is, his ability to take such close pitches isn't just because he has some amazing ability to make fine distinctions in pitch location but because he takes a lot of pitches and doesn't realize these pitches are close.

or

2. Needs to use his superb batting eye to know that some pitches are balls but have 25-50% chance to be called a strike so with 2 strikes, have to be swung at even if defensively. In other words, he needs to adjust his mental approach with 2 strikes.

What is interesting about his issue w/ called third strikes is it suggests that while has some trouble making contact, his K% could fairly easily fall into the typical range if he adjusts his mental approach a bit...even if his contact ability doesn't change.

[Chicago White Sox]

I honestly can’t think of a more polarizing figure on SoxTalk in recent memory than Moncada.  Pretty much every post that mentions him has like two likes & two confused faces.

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, Jake said:

There's nothing wrong with saying that Moncada either...

1. Takes so many called third strikes because his eye is not as good as we would like to think — that is, his ability to take such close pitches isn't just because he has some amazing ability to make fine distinctions in pitch location but because he takes a lot of pitches and doesn't realize these pitches are close.

or

2. Needs to use his superb batting eye to know that some pitches are balls but have 25-50% chance to be called a strike so with 2 strikes, have to be swung at even if defensively. In other words, he needs to adjust his mental approach with 2 strikes.

What is interesting about his issue w/ called third strikes is it suggests that while has some trouble making contact, his K% could fairly easily fall into the typical range if he adjusts his mental approach a bit...even if his contact ability doesn't change.

This seems obvious to me.  The way to take less third strikes is to swing at them.  While he will still miss some, a percentage of those pitches will turn into balls in play.  Even if that number is super-small at say 20%, with as many times as he has taken a third strike, that is a significant bump up for his hitting numbers (BA/OBP/SLG etc) which is he currently getting zeros for, and it also takes a big chunk out of his K%.  The kid could literally push to an .800 OPS player by swinging at more pitches close to the strike zone, and nothing else.

[Chisoxmb35]

14 hours ago, Flash said:

Curious what trade value Moncada might have. How would opposing GMs view his value? Could he bring back a 55 FV SS or 3B prospect?

Who cares? That's such a loaded question in light of this thread and the path it has taken down into the shitter. I don't understand the point of the question other than to incite posters here even further about this admittedly touchy subject. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Chisoxmb35

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This seems obvious to me.  The way to take less third strikes is to swing at them.  While he will still miss some, a percentage of those pitches will turn into balls in play.  Even if that number is super-small at say 20%, with as many times as he has taken a third strike, that is a significant bump up for his hitting numbers (BA/OBP/SLG etc) which is he currently getting zeros for, and it also takes a big chunk out of his K%.  The kid could literally push to an .800 OPS player by swinging at more pitches close to the strike zone, and nothing else.

And I’m confident it will happen in time. Everyone just needs to exhibit a little patience. He’ll get there.

[thxfrthmmrs]

12 hours ago, Doc Edwards Shot said:

I have posts in other threads that have nothing to do with Moncada. 

You also need to look around a little. Anytime anyone brings up anything negative about Moncada they are quickly swarmed by a few select posters quickly coming to his defense and reaffirming the party line that everything is okay.

The Sox have been selling this kid as a Porsche from the moment they traded for him. It's too bad that he looks like a Toyota Corrolla at this point.

 

 

This also have to do with the fact it is the same selected few posters, yourself included, who make making these negative comments. We get it, you are a glass half empty guy, no need to beat that dead horse again. But there is a good chance Moncada turns it around based on comparison to past players. You of all people keep posting like the world is ending after he goes 0 for 4 isn't going to change a thing except for lowering the quality of this forum.

[TaylorStSox]

27 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I honestly can’t think of a more polarizing figure on SoxTalk in recent memory than Moncada.  Pretty much every post that mentions him has like two likes & two confused faces.

The downvotes are all from Tom Party Longo and another of his log ins though. Nobody was down voting very much at all until he appeared. 

[SoxAce]

Just now, TaylorStSox said:

The downvotes are all from Tom Party Longo and another of his log ins though. Nobody was down voting very much at all until he appeared. 

It's pretty much him, FOF and Greg that do it the most from what I've seen. 

[Flash]

11 minutes ago, Chisoxmb35 said:

Who cares? That's such a loaded question in light of this thread and the path it has taken down into the shitter. I don't understand the point of the question other than to incite posters here even further about this admittedly touchy subject. 

It is a perfectly legitimate question. We are in trade season, we drafted our 2B of the future and in Moncada, we have a recent #1 prospect who, in spite of his performance, might hold interest to certain teams. Are you saying that not only trading him, but even mentioning the possibility of a trade is too inciteful for this board? 

[SCCWS]

13 hours ago, Doc Edwards Shot said:

Dude, do not ask questions like this around here. All thoughts, opinions,and questions about Moncada must only be positive and uplifting in nature. 

Moncada's value has cratered since the Sox traded for him. Hahn would get laughed out of the room if he tried to trade him one for one for a young second baseman like Albies or Torres.

Former Sox castaway Alen Hansen is currently a better player than Moncada. That should tell you all you need to know.

13 hours ago, Doc Edwards Shot said:

Dude, do not ask questions like this around here. All thoughts, opinions,and questions about Moncada must only be positive and uplifting in nature. 

Moncada's value has cratered since the Sox traded for him. Hahn would get laughed out of the room if he tried to trade him one for one for a young second baseman like Albies or Torres.

Former Sox castaway Alen Hansen is currently a better player than Moncada. That should tell you all you need to know.

Hahn should have stood firm with Boston and gotten Bentintendi instead of Moncada but a bad gm is a bad gm.

I think it is too early to say that. I watch Benintendi all the time and he is a stud. He looks to be a .280 20 HR 30 SB 100 RBI guy. But Moncada has a higher ceiling. The big question is whether he makes it.  At the time of the trade, Benintendi 's value was rising and Moncada's was falling after their showing during the pennant race.  I think for Sale, Boston would have done either but Benintendi was in a position they needed more than an infielder so the trade probably worked better for them than if they kept Moncada. In Fenway, I think Moncada would have another 4-5 HR this year. 

 

[thxfrthmmrs]

2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

The downvotes are all from Tom Party Longo and another of his log ins though. Nobody was down voting very much at all until he appeared. 

It's actually pretty clear that Rick Hahn has been using his burner accounts to downvote and passive aggressively attacking Moncada.

[TaylorStSox]

2 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

It's actually pretty clear that Rick Hahn has been using his burner accounts to downvote and passive aggressively attacking Moncada.

Haha

[TaylorStSox]

I think most of the haters are either Sale fans or Kenny haters and associate Moncada with KW because he's favored toolsy players over the last several years. Which is funny because the old criticism of KW was that he overly favored grinders. My theory is that some people don't like smug black men, but that probably won't play well here. 

[flippedoutpunk]

16 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

It's pretty much him, FOF and Greg that do it the most from what I've seen. 

Greg is still around? That dude is a legend

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

On 8/1/2018 at 12:26 PM, caulfield12 said:

That’s one of the possible outcomes, I suppose...to back up YOUR argument.

Even our two best acquisitions the last decade plus, Quentin and Eaton, were far from linear upwards in improvement...and then you have Beckham/Viciedo.  Three went downhill from their first seasons with the team, and we seemingly got so much from Eaton (hard to say what, at this exact moment) because he actually stayed on the field for one whole season, and got positive defensive numbers due to the positional change to a RFer piling up all those assists.

I wasn't arguing. We're all just a bunch of meatheads on a message board that want our favorite team to stop playing like shit.

Moncada needs to stop leaving it up to the umpire, staring at strike 3... 

Also - Eaton was super fun player to watch when he was with the Sox. I just wish that Engel could hit his damn weight. He is also fun to watch play defense. Clayton Kershaw has rougly the same offensive stats as Engel. That's pretty damn sad. 

[Chicago White Sox]

10 minutes ago, Flash said:

It is a perfectly legitimate question. We are in trade season, we drafted our 2B of the future and in Moncada, we have a recent #1 prospect who, in spite of his performance, might hold interest to certain teams. Are you saying that not only trading him, but even mentioning the possibility of a trade is too inciteful for this board? 

No, it’s a not legitimate question.  Not one single GM would trade a 23 year old 70 FV grade prospect who put 2.5 WAR in his first 162 games for a 55 FV prospect.  The entire premise is idiotic and borderlines on trolling.  Do you have any idea how much career WAR a 55 FV prospect is projected to provide?  Maybe around 6 to 8 WAR total.  Yoan will surpass that in two to three years most likely.  I honestly don’t know how anyone could propose something so ridiculous unless they refuse to accept Moncada in his current state isn’t a bad player.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

25 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

The downvotes are all from Tom Party Longo and another of his log ins though. Nobody was down voting very much at all until he appeared. 

He’s clearly one of them.  I speculate there are few others here who spend their day waiting for anything remotely positive about Moncada and eagerly hit that downvote button.

[ChiSox59]

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He’s clearly one of them.  I speculate there are few others here who spend their day waiting for anything remotely positive about Moncada and eagerly hit that downvote button.

It has gotten pretty silly at this point. 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

It has gotten pretty silly at this point. 

I think sad & pathetic are better descriptions, but ultimately this is the internet and not too surprising.