Moncada

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, footlongcomiskeydog said:

Informative post. Good god, those numbers with an 0-2 count are vomit inducing. The only place for them to go is up.

My concern is that the Sox lack anyone on the coaching and developmental side who can help this kid improve his count management. He is going to have figure out a lot of stuff on his own. Let's hope he is up to the task. 

I agree with the second part.  For the most part, Yoan just has to be a bit more aggressive.  I’d love to see how often he’s taking the first pitch for a strike.  Seems like he’s always down 0-1. And as we all know, he needs to learn how to protect with two strikes.  These aren’t even crazy adjustments, but it just doesn’t seem like the coaching is getting better through to him.

[Eminor3rd]

53 minutes ago, footlongcomiskeydog said:

I'm mistaken? A wRC+ of 90 is above average?

No, but that's not what you said. You said, "that's pretty much replacement level." Average and replacement level are very different things. Also, wRC+ isn't a stat that has a "replacement level," as it measures only offense, excluding defense and position.

If you wanted to measure productivity against replacement level, you'd need to use WAR. The poster was pointing out that Moncada has 1.0 fWAR, which (at this point in the season) is a bit below average, but well above replacement level.

[GGajewski18]

I feel dumber reading this thread that people think Moncada isn't important, that he's better off in the minors.

My god people.  He's 23 years old with pretty good plate discipline, a good eye.  Definitely needs to be more aggressive early in the count.  That'll come with more reps.

[footlongcomiskeydog]

3 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

Friend of mine who lives in Boston says the Boston media thinks the Sale trade is one of the great trades in the history of the Boston franchise. They think they received an ace pitcher for a utility player. (Moncada)  This trade is looking really bad for the White Sox now.  I don't think anybody can expect Kopech to be as good as Sale. Moncada is the key to the trade. If Moncada doesn't do well the trade has to be considered a failure.

It is still too early to judge the trade.

However, it is not out of the realm of possibility to think that Hahn and company were simply outsmarted by a superior front office in Boston. Hahn had just traded away Tatis Junior six months prior to the Sale trade. I'm not sure that the Sox had the right internal processes going on back in 2016. 

[Kyyle23]

17 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

Friend of mine who lives in Boston says the Boston media thinks the Sale trade is one of the great trades in the history of the Boston franchise. They think they received an ace pitcher for a utility player. (Moncada)  This trade is looking really bad for the White Sox now.  I don't think anybody can expect Kopech to be as good as Sale. Moncada is the key to the trade. If Moncada doesn't do well the trade has to be considered a failure.

man you have friends everywhere with hot takes. 

[caulfield12]

Frank Thomas or Walt Hrniak...if he’s still alive, haha.  Thome?  Konerko or Ventura seem unlikely...

He’s actually “only” 75.

[EvilJester99]

1 hour ago, Flash said:

At risk of igniting a debate, I fail to get why he is so important to the rebuild

 

[caulfield12]

Just now, Kyyle23 said:

man you have friends everywhere with hot takes. 

I wonder if he thought the same way after the postseason last year?

Red Sox are in danger of clinching so early...they can’t get it revved back up again for a team playing for 4-6 weeks in playoff pressure, like the A’s.

[Flash]

1 hour ago, soxfan2014 said:

Ok. Who, in your mind, is important to the rebuild? Not trying to argue or debate just really curious.

Moncada is an avg defensive 2B whose minor league stats are yesterdays news. He was a 65 FV prospect who was assigned a 65 hit tool when he was considered baseballs top prospect. Today, his hit tool would be assigned <40 IMHO. That said, in answer to your question, the key to the rebuild will be in how quickly and how effectively our young pitchers assimilate to their projected roles. Specifically, I view Kopech, Cease, Gio, Dunning, Lopez and possibly Hansen as key. If those guys reach their potential, the rebuild will be humming along. As to Moncada, he is a cog in the wheel as is Anderson, Jimenez, Robert, Madrigal, Collins, etc. He is no more or less important and if the rebuild relies on him producing like he did in AA ball, we have bigger issues.

[Lillian]

While I have been one of the most vocal critics of his habit of taking close pitches, with 2 strikes, I actually feel pretty optimistic that he will develop into a productive player. Given his ability to take pitches and his speed, he might ultimately become a good leadoff hitter.  Perhaps he won't be the big power hitter, whom we expected, but a high OBP guy, with speed would be OK. He may have to stop swinging for the fences, and learn to hit pitches to all fields. When teams employ the shift and he gets a a pitch, just barely outside, take the ball to the left side, for a hit  With his speed, most of those would be doubles.

If he could get his OBP to .350+ and steal bases, I'd be satisfied with 20+ homers. For now, I think we need to see him have better at bats. Not necessarily the results, but the approach. It would be encouraging to see him foul off a bunch of pitches and take a few to the opposite field, maybe move around in the batter's box. Anything but standing there and taking strike 3.

[Greg Hibbard]

Moncada is now 8 for his last 73, which seems absolutely abysmal, but also has 12 walks in the span and 2 of the eight hits were HR. The actually abysmal part is the 31 Ks.

I just don’t understand why the coaches aren’t instructing him to swing at more close pitches, because the 12 walks certainly do not outweigh what have to be more than 12 strikeouts looking. 

 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Greg Hibbard

[Flash]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If you can’t understand why the 70 grade, former #1 overall prospect with top 5 tools in all of baseball who was the centerpiece of the Chris Sale trade is so important to the rebuild then there’s more to say here.

His AA stats are yesterdays news. Today he is awful. Is it possible he turns it around? Yes. Is he any more important to how this team performs in the future than any of our other highly touted young players ??? If you are assuming that he becomes a 4+ WAR player, of course he is important, as is any such player. I just don't buy into that assumption. 

[Greg Hibbard]

Yoan Moncada is not awful. He’s an above average player in a rookie season going through a terrible slump that is making him look at worst slightly below average. 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Greg Hibbard

[Balta1701]

This is absolutely remarkable.

When Moncada either swings at the first pitch or is ahead in the count (1-0, 2-0, 3-0, 2-1, 3-1) he has an OPS of 1.239.

When Moncada has 2 strikes on him, other than a full count (0-2, 1-2, 2-2) he has an OPS of 0.219.

Just to rond things out, .729 when he has a full count, and .667 when it's 1-1. 

He has a 1.081 OPS when he's ahead in the count and a .454 OPS when the pitcher is ahead.

[caulfield12]

Avi had something like 25 infield hits last year...Moncada should have the same, or more, with his speed.

Yet I feel the answer to how many he has this year must be only 8-10, it just doesn’t make any sense.

[Chicago White Sox]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

This is absolutely remarkable.

When Moncada either swings at the first pitch or is ahead in the count (1-0, 2-0, 3-0, 2-1, 3-1) he has an OPS of 1.239.

When Moncada has 2 strikes on him, other than a full count (0-2, 1-2, 2-2) he has an OPS of 0.219.

Just to rond things out, .729 when he has a full count, and .667 when it's 1-1. 

He has a 1.081 OPS when he's ahead in the count and a .454 OPS when the pitcher is ahead.

Which is why he needs to stop taking first pitches for a strike.  Is there an easy way to pull that stat?

[TaylorStSox]

5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Avi had something like 25 infield hits last year...Moncada should have the same, or more, with his speed.

Yet I feel the answer to how many he has this year must be only 8-10, it just doesn’t make any sense.

If you just look at their swings, it makes total sense. 

[caulfield12]

14 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

If you just look at their swings, it makes total sense. 

But Moncada should at least be able to pull the ball to the LH side of the diamond when he is hitting from the RH side and get 5-7 additional hits by accident.  They both pull off the ball, and by virtue of doing that, some balls should be spinning off the top of the bat the other direction from time to time, pseudo bunts, essentially.

Obviously, he pulls everything as a LHB into the shift, but he still should have more infield hits up the middle.

Since you’re so wise, how many hitters in baseball today have fewer infield hits and the same degree of speed?

Edited August 8, 2018 by caulfield12

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, WBWSF said:

Friend of mine who lives in Boston says the Boston media thinks the Sale trade is one of the great trades in the history of the Boston franchise. They think they received an ace pitcher for a utility player. (Moncada)  This trade is looking really bad for the White Sox now.  I don't think anybody can expect Kopech to be as good as Sale. Moncada is the key to the trade. If Moncada doesn't do well the trade has to be considered a failure.

I would disagree.  If Kopech and basabe become All-Stars, I think it would be a win for both. BOSTON got what they needed, an all star pitcher right now. The Sox will have gotten what they needed, 2 all star players when they project to be good. Granted if Moncada flops, there is no room for error with the other two.

[caulfield12]

17 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I would disagree.  If Kopech and basabe become All-Stars, I think it would be a win for both. BOSTON got what they needed, an all star pitcher right now. The Sox will have gotten what they needed, 2 all star players when they project to be good. Granted if Moncada flops, there is no room for error with the other two.

But we also saved Sale salary we can now reinvest in operations...not much consolation for fans, though.

Edited August 8, 2018 by caulfield12

[hogan873]

It's frustrating to watch him right now.  However, he's a better player than he looks at this time.  I think partially he's in his own head, and he doesn't look very comfortable at the plate.

One thing I've noticed is that his approach at the plate changes frequently.  Sometime he'll go up and swing at the first pitch.  And it seems that he's more successful when he does that.  Other times he'll stand there and wait for two strikes before even looking like he wants to swing.  Not many hitters are consistently effective with two strikes, and he is definitely struggling in that respect.

Overall, I think he might need a day or two off and maybe dropped in the order to take some pressure off.  He needs to continue to see MLB pitching, though.  Sending him down wouldn't accomplish much.

[pmb0928]

16 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

But we also saved Sale salary we can now reinvest in operations...not much consolation for fans, though.

Don't forget all the money we haven't had to spend on replacing throwback jerseys.

[he gone.]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

This is absolutely remarkable.

When Moncada either swings at the first pitch or is ahead in the count (1-0, 2-0, 3-0, 2-1, 3-1) he has an OPS of 1.239.

When Moncada has 2 strikes on him, other than a full count (0-2, 1-2, 2-2) he has an OPS of 0.219.

Just to rond things out, .729 when he has a full count, and .667 when it's 1-1. 

He has a 1.081 OPS when he's ahead in the count and a .454 OPS when the pitcher is ahead.

I mean, for all the people complaining, just read this stat over and over. If he changes his approach just a little he's going to take off. As much as we'd all love him to be Juan Soto or some rookie that comes to the majors and just rakes and never looks back he is likely to follow the path of Javy Baez and Avi Garcia a bit more. We should be thankful he is learning on the 2017/2018 Sox and isn't a Madrigal or Robert that won't have as much of a leash to learn on the fly on the 2020-2021 Sox. (Also one of the reasons the BoSox traded him - didn't have the luxury of letting him learn)

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Moncada is now 8 for his last 73, which seems absolutely abysmal, but also has 12 walks in the span and 2 of the eight hits were HR. The actually abysmal part is the 31 Ks.

I just don’t understand why the coaches aren’t instructing him to swing at more close pitches, because the 12 walks certainly do not outweigh what have to be more than 12 strikeouts looking. 

 

Why is the assumption that no one has told him to swing at those pitches, when we have people like Renteria on record as saying he needs to swing at more of those pitches?

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Why is the assumption that no one has told him to swing at those pitches, when we have people like Renteria on record as saying he needs to swing at more of those pitches?

Right. If we are here saying it, then wouldn't one think they would see it too? Especially if Ricky even specifically mentioned it?