Moncada

[Jake]

4 hours ago, footlongcomiskeydog said:

U guys really think this guy has had a good year and shown improvement from last year?

When I look at his stats I see a barely above replacement player who has a lower wRC than heavy hitters like Alen Hanson.

Nothing about this kid screams elite to me. Go watch Atlanta, NY, or the Nats if you want to see some truly elite young talent.

Don't forget to watch the baseball games and appreciate the many ways you can end up at the same season statistics

[footlongcomiskeydog]

Yoan Moncada= 1.1 WAR

Edwin Jackson= 0.8 WAR

Is this real life? 

 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

44 minutes ago, footlongcomiskeydog said:

Yoan Moncada= 1.1 WAR

Edwin Jackson= 0.8 WAR

Is this real life? 

 

Jon Lester = 1.0 WAR

Jose Quintana = 1.1 WAR

What’s your point?

[Lillian]

I'm beginning to wonder if this young man is capable of learning. It has been brought to his attention, by coaches and teammates that he needs to be more aggressive, in two strike counts. Yet, he continues to take called third strikes. I'm sorry, but being a good baseball player requires a certain degree of baseball smarts, or acumen. He better wake up and begin to figure that out, or this League is going to eat him up. If we, as fans, can see this, you have to wonder why he can't. He also continues to try to pull everything. Anderson has discovered that there are a lot of base hits, to be derived from taking outside pitches to the opposite field. Moncada can't seem to grasp that. 

I've said it before, but despite taking a lot of pitches, far too many of his at bats are not good at bats. Is anyone else getting tired of his stubborn insistence on doing the same things, over and over again, in spite of less than acceptable results? Do you think that the Boston front office might have thought that he was a "head case"? What a waste of talent? I don't know what Madrigal will amount to, but his baseball acumen will be a refreshing change, after watching Moncada.

I. apologize for the rant, but it's getting hard to take, especially after the let down over Kopech.

[Jose Abreu]

4 minutes ago, Lillian said:

I'm beginning to wonder if this young man is capable of learning. It has been brought to his attention, by coaches and teammates that he needs to be more aggressive, in two strike counts. Yet, he continues to take called third strikes.

I don't agree with this. There was the one called third strike today. Other than that, over the past month or so, it has barely happened relative to May/June 

[footlongcomiskeydog]

6 minutes ago, Lillian said:

I'm beginning to wonder if this young man is capable of learning. It has been brought to his attention, by coaches and teammates that he needs to be more aggressive, in two strike counts. Yet, he continues to take called third strikes. I'm sorry, but being a good baseball player requires a certain degree of baseball smarts, or acumen. He better wake up and begin to figure that out, or this League is going to eat him up. If we, as fans, can see this, you have to wonder why he can't. He also continues to try to pull everything. Anderson has discovered that there are a lot of base hits, to be derived from taking outside pitches to the opposite field. Moncada can't seem to grasp that. 

I've said it before, but despite taking a lot of pitches, far too many of his at bats are not good at bats. Is anyone else getting tired of his stubborn insistence on doing the same things, over and over again, in spite of less than acceptable results? Do you think that the Boston front office might have thought that he was a "head case"? What a waste of talent? I don't know what Madrigal will amount to, but his baseball acumen will be a refreshing change, after watching Moncada.

I. apologize for the rant, but it's getting hard to take, especially after the let down over Kopech.

You are gonna get flamed for this post man. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Moncada. Everything is going according to plan with him. Just be patient. He will be putting up numbers that put Javy Baez to shame in two years.

[The Sir]

20 minutes ago, footlongcomiskeydog said:

You are gonna get flamed for this post man. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Moncada. Everything is going according to plan with him. Just be patient. He will be putting up numbers that put Javy Baez to shame in two years.

I make arguments against Moncada’s potential more than most, but it actually centers on a few pertinent points related to how he plays and where I think he needs to improve. Same with Lillian, who is understandably concerned about his approach. You just compare him unfavorably to David Bote, a guy who nobody will remember in four years. I think there’s a difference.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

17 minutes ago, The Sir said:

I make arguments against Moncada’s potential more than most, but it actually centers on a few pertinent points related to how he plays and where I think he needs to improve. Same with Lillian, who is understandably concerned about his approach. You just compare him unfavorably to David Bote, a guy who nobody will remember in four years. I think there’s a difference.

Or Alen Hanson and Edwin Jackson, apparently.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, footlongcomiskeydog said:

You are gonna get flamed for this post man. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Moncada. Everything is going according to plan with him. Just be patient. He will be putting up numbers that put Javy Baez to shame in two years.

Lmao. Of all players to mention. It's like you don't even care.

[Lillian]

During these final few games, I'd love to see Moncada work on any, or all of the following:

1) Swing at anything close, in 2 strike counts

2) Take pitches, on the outside edge of the plate, to the opposite field, especially when the shift is on.

3) Bunt for a base hit, again especially when there is a dramatic shift on.

4) Choke up on the bat, when in 2 strike counts

5) Move around, in the batter's box.

If he can squeeze out a few more hits, and steal a few more bases, it might provide some confidence, going forward. At least it would represent a "plan". He needs a better "approach". If his eye is as good as claimed, he should be able to recognize that a pitch is close enough to swing at, even if it isn't necessarily a strike. He has to stop leaving the outcome of so many at bats, in the hands of the plate umpire. He has too much talent, to look so hapless. He's headed for over 200 strike outs. That simply won't cut it, certainly not as a leadoff hitter. That might be acceptable for a middle of the order hitter, slugging 35 homers, but not at the top of the order. Look, all I'd like to see is some effort to fix, what is clearly "broken".

Edited September 9, 2018 by Lillian

[Greg Hibbard]

On 9/9/2018 at 11:22 AM, Lillian said:

During these final few games, I'd love to see Moncada work on any, or all of the following:

1) Swing at anything close, in 2 strike counts

2) Take pitches, on the outside edge of the plate, to the opposite field, especially when the shift is on.

3) Bunt for a base hit, again especially when there is a dramatic shift on.

4) Choke up on the bat, when in 2 strike counts

5) Move around, in the batter's box.

If he can squeeze out a few more hits, and steal a few more bases, it might provide some confidence, going forward. At least it would represent a "plan". He needs a better "approach". If his eye is as good as claimed, he should be able to recognize that a pitch is close enough to swing at, even if it isn't necessarily a strike. He has to stop leaving the outcome of so many at bats, in the hands of the plate umpire. He has too much talent, to look so hapless. He's headed for over 200 strike outs. That simply won't cut it, certainly not as a leadoff hitter. That might be acceptable for a middle of the order hitter, slugging 35 homers, but not at the top of the order. Look, all I'd like to see is some effort to fix, what is clearly "broken".

Lillian, your post seems to indicate that Moncada has been striking out at something like his early August clip, but honestly, strikeouts have not been the problem recently. 

Over his last 93 PAs, Yoan has actually only struck out 23 times. Yes, it’s not good to strike out even that much, but it is way, way better than it has been, about a seasonal pace of 160 instead of 200+.

Moncada’s problem right now is that he actually has made an adjustment to strike out somewhat less, but his power and walk rate have also gone down in a way that hurts his overall offensive game more. He has just 7 BB over those 93 PA, and just 2 HR, 1 3B and 3 2B. As a result, his OPS and WAR are not really improving. I would much rather Yoan strike out 250 times a season if it meant we also got 30+ home runs.

Recently, he’s kind of turned into a singles hitter (16 of them over that span), which is kind of bizarre given the 3 outcome rap he was getting in June. Did you ever think Yoan would have more singles than walks, doubles, triples and homers combined over any 100 PA span?

The silver lining in this is that he may be more versatile than any of us thought. 

Edited September 11, 2018 by Greg Hibbard

[Jose Abreu]

18 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Lillian, your post seems to indicate that Moncada has been striking out at something like his early August clip, but honestly, strikeouts have not been the problem recently. 

Over his last 93 PAs, Yoan has actually only struck out 23 times. Yes, it’s not good to strike out even that much, but it is way, way better than it has been, about a seasonal pace of 160 instead of 200+.

Moncada’s problem right now is that he actually has made an adjustment to strike out somewhat less, but his power and walk rate have also gone down in a way that hurts his overall offensive game more. He has just 7 BB over those 93 PA, and just 2 HR, 1 3B and 3 2B. As a result, his OPS and WAR are not really improving. I would much rather Yoan strike out 250 times a season if it meant we also got 30+ home runs.

Recently, he’s kind of turned into a singles hitter (16 of them over that span), which is kind of bizarre given the 3 outcome rap he was getting in June. Did you ever think Yoan would have more singles than walks, doubles, triples and homers combined over any 100 PA span?

The silver lining in this is that he may be more versatile than any of us thought. 

I guess another silver lining is that, with this new, albeit worse approach to appease the angry mob, he's no longer on pace to set the single season strikeout record. He might not even lead the league in them, Gallo is catching up a bit 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Lillian, your post seems to indicate that Moncada has been striking out at something like his early August clip, but honestly, strikeouts have not been the problem recently. 

Over his last 93 PAs, Yoan has actually only struck out 23 times. Yes, it’s not good to strike out even that much, but it is way, way better than it has been, about a seasonal pace of 160 instead of 200+.

Moncada’s problem right now is that he actually has made an adjustment to strike out somewhat less, but his power and walk rate have also gone down in a way that hurts his overall offensive game more. He has just 7 BB over those 93 PA, and just 2 HR, 1 3B and 3 2B. As a result, his OPS and WAR are not really improving. I would much rather Yoan strike out 250 times a season if it meant we also got 30+ home runs.

Recently, he’s kind of turned into a singles hitter (16 of them over that span), which is kind of bizarre given the 3 outcome rap he was getting in June. Did you ever think Yoan would have more singles than walks, doubles, triples and homers combined over any 100 PA span?

The silver lining in this is that he may be more versatile than any of us thought. 

I am OK with this.  As he gets more comfortable with the change in the strike zone from what he thinks it is, to what is actually being called, then he can start to add power back.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am OK with this.  As he gets more comfortable with the change in the strike zone from what he thinks it is, to what is actually being called, then he can start to add power back.

It also seemed to my eyes that he is going oppo more. I know he had a HR to left while batting lefty and a few base hits also. He's getting it slowly but surely. His batting average seems to be creeping up but as others pointed out it hasn't advanced his OPS or walks. He's learning .

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It also seemed to my eyes that he is going oppo more. I know he had a HR to left while batting lefty and a few base hits also. He's getting it slowly but surely. His batting average seems to be creeping up but as others pointed out it hasn't advanced his OPS or walks. He's learning .

For lack of a better term, he looks like he is trying to be more hitterish at this time.

[Lillian]

I am more interested in his approach, than his results. When it is apparent that something isn't working, it makes sense to alter that approach. I'm pleased to know that he is doing something different. 

[Jack Parkman]

I'm fine with Moncada being a singles hitter for a bit. The power and walks will come with more confidence and contact. He's gonna take some time, but when he puts it all together it will be a lot of fun to watch him and Eloy in the middle of that lineup. 

[WBWSF]

The White Sox drafted Nick Madrigal  a few months ago as their #1 draft choice. The White Sox have talked openly about him being the 2020 Opening day second baseman. As bad as I think this White Sox management team is, I don't think they would have drafted him if they had a high opinion of MonKKKKKKKKKada. I don't think anybody thinks the White Sox are going to have a winning season in 2019. I'm just wondering if the White Sox  will trade MonKKKKKKKKada this off season and put Madrigal at second base next year. If the White Sox could get something decent for MonKKKKKKKKada this off season I wouldn't be surprised if he was traded.

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, WBWSF said:

The White Sox drafted Nick Madrigal  a few months ago as their #1 draft choice. The White Sox have talked openly about him being the 2020 Opening day second baseman. As bad as I think this White Sox management team is, I don't think they would have drafted him if they had a high opinion of MonKKKKKKKKKada. I don't think anybody thinks the White Sox are going to have a winning season in 2019. I'm just wondering if the White Sox  will trade MonKKKKKKKKada this off season and put Madrigal at second base next year. If the White Sox could get something decent for MonKKKKKKKKada this off season I wouldn't be surprised if he was traded.

You don't give up on a player with Moncada's potential after one poor season. He's one of those guys you just have to ride out the storm on and if he busts, so be it. You can't take the chance of selling him for a horrible return and he puts it all together in his next stop. GMs lose jobs over that stuff. 

[hi8is]

1 hour ago, WBWSF said:

The White Sox drafted Nick Madrigal  a few months ago as their #1 draft choice. The White Sox have talked openly about him being the 2020 Opening day second baseman. As bad as I think this White Sox management team is, I don't think they would have drafted him if they had a high opinion of MonKKKKKKKKKada. I don't think anybody thinks the White Sox are going to have a winning season in 2019. I'm just wondering if the White Sox  will trade MonKKKKKKKKada this off season and put Madrigal at second base next year. If the White Sox could get something decent for MonKKKKKKKKada this off season I wouldn't be surprised if he was traded.

🤦

I wish you maturity in the coming years of your baseball fan career.

Edited September 12, 2018 by hi8is

[BlackSox13]

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

You don't give up on a player with Moncada's potential after one poor season. He's one of those guys you just have to ride out the storm on and if he busts, so be it. You can't take the chance of selling him for a horrible return and he puts it all together in his next stop. GMs lose jobs over that stuff. 

I really don't understand the point in that post. It's probably a good thing to be honest. To expect an A ball player with less tools than Moncada to replace him is utterly ludicrous. It makes no sense at all.

[kitekrazy]

 So after just playing a little over a full season he is not a Mike Trout.   There's a lot of impatience among fans.

[caulfield12]

https://sports.yahoo.com/yoan-moncada-closes-200-strikeouts-022412845.html

[southsider2k5]

9 hours ago, WBWSF said:

The White Sox drafted Nick Madrigal  a few months ago as their #1 draft choice. The White Sox have talked openly about him being the 2020 Opening day second baseman. As bad as I think this White Sox management team is, I don't think they would have drafted him if they had a high opinion of MonKKKKKKKKKada. I don't think anybody thinks the White Sox are going to have a winning season in 2019. I'm just wondering if the White Sox  will trade MonKKKKKKKKada this off season and put Madrigal at second base next year. If the White Sox could get something decent for MonKKKKKKKKada this off season I wouldn't be surprised if he was traded.

What members of the organization said this?

[gusguyman]

13 hours ago, WBWSF said:

The White Sox drafted Nick Madrigal  a few months ago as their #1 draft choice. The White Sox fans who have an irrational hatred of Moncada have talked openly about him being the 2020 Opening day second baseman. As bad as I think this White Sox management team is, I don't think they would have drafted him if they had a high opinion of MonKKKKKKKKKada. I don't think anybody thinks the White Sox are going to have a winning season in 2019. I'm just wondering if the White Sox  will trade MonKKKKKKKKada this off season and put Madrigal at second base next year. If the White Sox could get something decent for MonKKKKKKKKada this off season I wouldn't be surprised if he was traded.

Fixed that for you