Moncada

[Jose Abreu]

Keith Law said something interesting about Moncada: he thinks that, strictly offensively, Moncada's career might be similar to Eric Hosmer's in the sense that he will be inconsistent from season to season, some above average years and some below. 

Hosmer's wRC+ by year: 113, 80, 120, 98, 124, 102, 135, 94

Moncada's wRC+ by year: 105, 91

[Greg Hibbard]

Just 24 strikeouts in his last 103 PAs

his weird power outage (1 HR and 1 3B in his last 86 PAs) has rendered him with the bizarre September slash of

.293/.356/.341/.697

[ptatc]

17 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Just 24 strikeouts in his last 103 PAs

his weird power outage (1 HR and 1 3B in his last 86 PAs) has rendered him with the bizarre September slash of

.293/.356/.341/.697

It's not surprising that his strike outs go down when he doesn't try to hit a homerun on every pitch.

[Greg Hibbard]

5 minutes ago, ptatc said:

It's not surprising that his strike outs go down when he doesn't try to hit a homerun on every pitch.

Many of Yoan’s strikeout woes were due to him taking way too many pitches, not because he was swinging for the fences, necessarily.

[Lillian]

I prefer this version of Moncada. The home runs will come. He is better suited as a high OBP leadoff hitter, and stolen base threat, unless he is going to bat 3 - 5, in the order. Swinging for the fences doesn't suit that profile. That's fine for guys like Palka, Eloy and Davidson, not for Yoan. It wouldn't be surprising if he still hit 25 homers a year, in the leadoff spot, with this kind of an approach.

[southsider2k5]

 

[ptatc]

32 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Many of Yoan’s strikeout woes were due to him taking way too many pitches, not because he was swinging for the fences, necessarily.

Many were. But some were from swinging for the fences on every pitch without trying to hit the opposite way or cutting down his swing with 2 strikes.

[ptatc]

12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

Better

[Lillian]

Whatever was the cause, if he is learning to make adjustments, that's a very positive and encouraging step.

[Jose Abreu]

His 2nd hit yesterday was encouraging. It was a routine grounder to first that he hustled out and turned into a single. Not that hustling was ever a problem, but we all thought he’d have a few hits a season that are purely due to speed and that was one of them 

[TaylorStSox]

1 hour ago, Lillian said:

I prefer this version of Moncada. The home runs will come. He is better suited as a high OBP leadoff hitter, and stolen base threat, unless he is going to bat 3 - 5, in the order. Swinging for the fences doesn't suit that profile. That's fine for guys like Palka, Eloy and Davidson, not for Yoan. It wouldn't be surprising if he still hit 25 homers a year, in the leadoff spot, with this kind of an approach.

I'd much rather see him eventually hit 3rd with Anderson in the 2 hole. 

If we're looking at this in 3 years, I'd be ecstatic. Obviously it won't shake out this way. 

Collins

Anderson 

Moncada 

Jimenez

Robert 

Aldofo

Rutherford 

Madrigal 

Edited September 15, 2018 by TaylorStSox

[Two-Gun Pete]

11 hours ago, Lillian said:

I prefer this version of Moncada. The home runs will come. He is better suited as a high OBP leadoff hitter, and stolen base threat, unless he is going to bat 3 - 5, in the order. 

Easy, Icarus. Don't fly too high with your vision of Moncada.

I think you're seeing things that are not in evidence in a ~30% K rate guy. I'm afraid he will never be a "high OBP leadoff hitter." I mean, he's been a freakin' strikeout machine at each and every stop above High A. At some point, a player is what his numbers say he is; while his past 20 games might be promising to some here, I completely discount a player's garbage time heroics.

 

That said, this isn't to mean that he will NEVER be a viable MLB hitter. He just will never cut his Ks down enough to actually deserve to hit high in the order, but since this stupid org seems to hate OBP, he'll probably be square-pegged into a role that is ill-suited for what he is as a hitter.

[Lillian]

11 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Easy, Icarus. Don't fly too high with your vision of Moncada.

I think you're seeing things that are not in evidence in a ~30% K rate guy. I'm afraid he will never be a "high OBP leadoff hitter." I mean, he's been a freakin' strikeout machine at each and every stop above High A. At some point, a player is what his numbers say he is; while his past 20 games might be promising to some here, I completely discount a player's garbage time heroics.

 

That said, this isn't to mean that he will NEVER be a viable MLB hitter. He just will never cut his Ks down enough to actually deserve to hit high in the order, but since this stupid org seems to hate OBP, he'll probably be square-pegged into a role that is ill-suited for what he is as a hitter.

I think that he is too young and way too inexperienced to be drawing conclusions, regarding what kind of player he will ultimately become. I'm focusing on his tools. He is fast and is said to have a good eye. He is certainly not prone to chasing lots of bad pitches. His approach has seemed to be one of waiting for the perfect pitch to pull, with power. That approach has not worked. If he begins to be a little more aggressive, and use the whole field, it is not hard to imagine him getting his OBP up to over .350. Given his speed, that would make him a very viable leadoff hitter. The power would still be there, but I argue that he shouldn't be trying to make that his primary objective. At any rate, we'll see. 

[Two-Gun Pete]

4 hours ago, Lillian said:

I think that he is too young and way too inexperienced to be drawing conclusions, regarding what kind of player he will ultimately become. I'm focusing on his tools. He is fast and is said to have a good eye. He is certainly not prone to chasing lots of bad pitches.

 

Given his speed, that would make him a very viable leadoff hitter. The power would still be there, but I argue that he shouldn't be trying to make that his primary objective. At any rate, we'll see. 

Haven't we as SOX fans seen this "he's-fast-so-we-hope-and-pray-he-can-learn-to-get-on-base-and-become-a-leadoff-hitter" movie before? I seem to remember Jerry Owens, DeWayne Wise, heck, even the corpse of Jimmy Rollins as "fast-guys-so-we'll-lead-him-off" types that couldn't get on base. By extension, the White Sox offense has suffered because of this stupidity.

By contrast, good teams with good offenses with smart on-field and Front Office Management PRIORITIZE OBP over a player's footspeed in terms of selecting a leadoff hitter. [The team across town seems to do so, but if the rosters were switched, you just KNOW that Heyward and his mediocre bat would be written in INK atop the lineup.]

 

That aside, WHO in this "awesome" coaching staff has the ability to reach this kid? Do you trust Ricky or Steverson to be able to coach him up? I don't. I think those guys were picked by Front Office types that are stupid, and by extension, I think Ricky and Steverson aren't the best in the business at their jobs. 

 

Also, you previously questioned Moncada's ability to learn. I likewise doubt his ability to learn, but moreso from the intrinsic motivation angle:

After all, him going out and blowing gobs of cash on cars, knowing that he's wealthy-for-life, might be what "success" is for HIM.  Maybe he doesn't really WANT to be a STAR in MLB, maybe he's happy cashing checks. Has he shown any WANT to be a better player? Has he shown any DESIRE to be the best? [You know, the personality trait that Jimenez seems to have in spades?] I don't know, but as you said, "we'll see."

[Jake]

If you haven't seen a pretty significant change in Moncada's approach over the past month-ish, you've had your eyes closed. It hasn't turned him into superman, but he has definitely been working on things.

[Two-Gun Pete]

7 minutes ago, Jake said:

If you haven't seen a pretty significant change in Moncada's approach over the past month-ish, you've had your eyes closed. It hasn't turned him into superman, but he has definitely been working on things.

Look, we're all pleased by his recent up-turn in results, but remember that this is "garbage time," and he's facing quite a bit of opposition that are just playing out the string, just the same as we are. I heavily discount garbage time results when considering a player's overall track record.

That said, I'm NOT saying he isn't an MLB-caliber player. I'm just doubting that he'll become a star. I surely hope I'm wrong.

[bubba phillips]

His 3 K's today put Moncada over the 200 mark for the year.

[southsider2k5]

53 minutes ago, Jake said:

If you haven't seen a pretty significant change in Moncada's approach over the past month-ish, you've had your eyes closed. It hasn't turned him into superman, but he has definitely been working on things.

Not to mention that Moncada HAS been trying to be an OBP guy by taking as many walks as he can, but leads all of baseball by a large margin in K calls outside of the zone.

[skooch]

38 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Not to mention that Moncada HAS been trying to be an OBP guy by taking as many walks as he can, but leads all of baseball by a large margin in K calls outside of the zone.

If you refuse to swing, you WILL lead the league in K calls out of the zone. At some point, you need to acknowledge that umpires are expanding their zones with two strikes and not be so stubborn. You need to adjust to the way the game is being called.

[Balta1701]

Quote

Moncada also said he would be willing to play third base, should first-round draft pick Nick Madrigal work his way into the lineup as a second baseman down the road. Moncada made his major league debut at third with the Red Sox in 2016, and while such a move hasn’t been publicly discussed – Madrigal hasn’t played above Class A yet and he will also get a look at shortstop and perhaps third – it’s probably good to know Moncada is willing to roll with the flow.

“If they approach me and ask me to play another position I will do it,’’ he said through Russo “Whatever the team wants me to do.’’

It’s been quite the first full season for Moncada. He has been putting together a solid September but he went 0-for-5 and struck out for 199th, 200th and 201st times in the Sox’ 8-4 loss to the Orioles Sunday, a feat he’ll have to wear forever but one that won’t keep him awake at night, he says.

“I don’t like to dwell on it,’’ he said of being one of seven players with 200 or more. “The stats are the stats. I’m not sitting here going ‘I’m leading the league in strikeouts.’ I’m just trying to focus on improving and getting better. That’s it.’’

Moncada also knows the strikeout frequency was dropped in the last 30 days, during a stretch that has seen him reach base 23 times in 24 games while batting .270, well above his season average of .226. His 26 doubles, 17 homers and six triples help offsest the monster strikeout numbers Moncada says he wants to address next season.

“That’s something that was very important for me, so it’s good to [the frequency] coming down as we get to the end of the year,’’ he said.

Elevating his hands has been helping, he said, making his swing “freer” and allowing him to use the hands better.

“Every staff member has had conversations with him about different aspects of his game,’’ manager Rick Renteria said. “We realize he’s a very talented young man but also get him to focus and do the necessary things to have success. To have a sense of urgency in everything he does, at the plate and in the field.’’

Post-game article in the sun times with some important stuff. More discussion in there of his mistake during the game today and committing to learn English in the offseason also.

[Dominikk85]

On 9/15/2018 at 5:03 PM, southsider2k5 said:

 

It is a good sign but you have to consider it is shitty  September pitching. Still better but we need to see if he can sustain this

[Goober]

Niiice, Monkada 3 for 5 today

[Two-Gun Pete]

16 hours ago, Tony said:

So in one post you claim it seems as he doesn’t strive to be a star in MLB and is only conceded about personal financial gain, and has shown no desire to be a better player....and in another you discount the positive traits he has displayed over the last month because most players are just playing out the string in garbage time. 

If Moncada didn’t care, wouldn’t be just be playing out the string, not caring about improving? 

You can’t have it both ways. Well, I guess you can, it would just make you a large hypocrite. 

You know, it CAN be both.

It CAN be that he doesn't mind being average, AND it can be that he pads his stats in "garbage time."

 

Looking at his numbers, Moncada did the EXACT same thing in 2017 in a meaningless September as he's doing now: He's padding his stats against sub-standard opposition. So I ask you:

Was Yoan Moncada's September of 2017 an indication of "improvement," or were they merely "garbage time" heroics? (Feel free to reference his 2018 numbers, with the YAWNING K rates to answer.)

 

Hell, Adam Fucking Engel has looked cromulent in September. Trayce Thompson looked like a golden god in September a few years ago. When will people stop buying the fools gold that are Garbage Time Heroes?

So no, there's no "hypocrisy," unless you're the type that actually believes that "Garbage Time" is a true reflection of a player's ability. 

Edited September 17, 2018 by Two-Gun Pete

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

You know, it CAN be both.

It CAN be that he doesn't mind being average, AND it can be that he pads his stats in "garbage time."

 

Looking at his numbers, Moncada did the EXACT same thing in 2017 in a meaningless September as he's doing now: He's padding his stats against sub-standard opposition. So I ask you:

Was Yoan Moncada's September of 2017 an indication of "improvement," or were they merely "garbage time" heroics? (Feel free to reference his 2018 numbers, with the YAWNING K rates to answer.)

 

Hell, Adam Fucking Engel has looked cromulent in September. Trayce Thompson looked like a golden god in September a few years ago. When will people stop buying the fools gold that are Garbage Time Heroes?

So no, there's no "hypocrisy," unless you're the type that actually believes that "Garbage Time" is a true reflection of a player's ability. 

So September is meaningless, but here you are complaining about what is happening in September. 

[TaylorStSox]

Man, that rant is almost as bad as the guy who wouldn't count Joe Crede stats if we had a lead.