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Just now, Harold's Leg Lift said:

The expectations for Eloy were so unrealistically high anything short of an MVP season would have been considered a disappointment.

I suppose. If Robert has a 101 wRC+ next season and plays CF as well as we think he can, he's probably a 3 WAR player already. I wonder if that would also be considered disappointing since his offense wouldn't be as impressive

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8 minutes ago, Tony said:

Eloy has 100% been a disappointment this season. Doesn't mean he can't become a superstar, but his rookie campaign has been a fairly significant disappointment. 

He's on pace to hit 38 Homers over 160 games. The average isn't there yet and his k-rate has spiked but he's missed time. 

He could have been better but I think his future is rather clear and in no way did his ceiling or expectations take a step back this year based on his performance imo. That's why I would say his season has been fine and showed what we wanted it to show. He's 22 years old. He had just turned 22 when the season started.

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8 minutes ago, Tony said:

Eloy has 100% been a disappointment this season. Doesn't mean he can't become a superstar, but his rookie campaign has been a fairly significant disappointment. 

I think that's unfair. 775 OPS and 24 HR's in 2/3 of a season as a 22 year old is a nice start to me. The interesting part of his stats comes when you look at his day/night, later innings, men on base, type numbers. He hits better in primetime situations. Unfortunately most(all) of the Sox season hasn't been in contention. He also doesn't exactly have a stacked roster around him. Add another legit option in the lineup around him and start being in contention, and I think he will be the most impactful bat in the lineup.

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2 minutes ago, Tony said:

It's fine. It was an OK season. Vlad Jr. has had a slightly better rookie season, and he's 20. Juan Soto had a much better season last year, he was 19. Fernando Tatis? Too soon? 

Eloy was and is in that group. His minor league career earned him those expectations, and given what we saw in 2019, the combo of what he did at a the plate (pretty good), his really bad play in LF and injuries, I thought his 2019 was a disappointment. Eloy seems to think the same based on articles I've seen the last few days and his quotes. But I think that can absolutely change in 2020. 

 

Soto is a very different hitter than Eloy. 

Saying a player has been disappointing because he wasn't as good as arguably one of the 3 greatest performances by a 20 year old in MLb history is reaching imo.

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I'd really like to see Eloy get 30 this year and get his average around 260. Hopefully last night gets him going a little bit in the power department.

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If I remember correctly...eloy was a bit of a slow starter in AA and AAA before really mashing. I think his last month is starting to show adjustments...and he did have some nagging injuries so he deserves a bit of slack. His defense though...BAD.

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31 minutes ago, Tony said:

It's fine. It was an OK season. Vlad Jr. has had a slightly better rookie season, and he's 20. Juan Soto had a much better season last year, he was 19. Fernando Tatis? Too soon? 

Eloy was and is in that group. His minor league career earned him those expectations, and given what we saw in 2019, the combo of what he did at a the plate (pretty good), his really bad play in LF and injuries, I thought his 2019 was a disappointment. Eloy seems to think the same based on articles I've seen the last few days and his quotes. But I think that can absolutely change in 2020. 

 

This is a bit much. 

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43 minutes ago, Tony said:

It's fine. It was an OK season. Vlad Jr. has had a slightly better rookie season, and he's 20. Juan Soto had a much better season last year, he was 19. Fernando Tatis? Too soon? 

Eloy was and is in that group. His minor league career earned him those expectations, and given what we saw in 2019, the combo of what he did at a the plate (pretty good), his really bad play in LF and injuries, I thought his 2019 was a disappointment. Eloy seems to think the same based on articles I've seen the last few days and his quotes. But I think that can absolutely change in 2020. 

 

feels like the same posters crying that it was actually a good season would be the ones who would jump down a poster's throat if prior to eloy coming up they estimated him only hitting .775 ops.

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47 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I'd really like to see Eloy get 30 this year and get his average around 260. Hopefully last night gets him going a little bit in the power department.

He looks to be figuring it out.

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49 minutes ago, bmags said:

feels like the same posters crying that it was actually a good season would be the ones who would jump down a poster's throat if prior to eloy coming up they estimated him only hitting .775 ops.

For his rookie season or his career? For his career, then yeah, that would be disappointing, but predicting a .775 OPS from him prior to this season for 2019 would not have been unreasonable at all. 

Edited by Jose Abreu
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4 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

For his rookie season or his career? For his career, then yeah, that would be disappointing, but predicting a .775 OPS from him prior to this season for 2019 would not have been unreasonable at all. 

I think ZIPS had him at like 270/330/480 before the season started.  He's had a bit of a down year so far but if he finishes strong he'll be right there where he was projected.  

Going forward though he has to be something like 280/350/550 to be a superstar bat and a 4-5 WAR player in LF.  Sox are going to need his production.

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2 hours ago, Palehosefan said:

I think that's unfair. 775 OPS and 24 HR's in 2/3 of a season as a 22 year old is a nice start to me. The interesting part of his stats comes when you look at his day/night, later innings, men on base, type numbers. He hits better in primetime situations. Unfortunately most(all) of the Sox season hasn't been in contention. He also doesn't exactly have a stacked roster around him. Add another legit option in the lineup around him and start being in contention, and I think he will be the most impactful bat in the lineup.

He has certainly lacked any lineup protection behind him.  I think we will see him move to 4th next year and hopefully a solidLH hits behind him.  I think his average will come around and I think his power numbers are very good. My only qualm is the thought he may have to end up a DH. Hopefully if he struggles in LF , he can move to !B. 

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3 hours ago, Tony said:

It's fine. It was an OK season. Vlad Jr. has had a slightly better rookie season, and he's 20. Juan Soto had a much better season last year, he was 19. Fernando Tatis? Too soon? 

Eloy was and is in that group. His minor league career earned him those expectations, and given what we saw in 2019, the combo of what he did at a the plate (pretty good), his really bad play in LF and injuries, I thought his 2019 was a disappointment. Eloy seems to think the same based on articles I've seen the last few days and his quotes. But I think that can absolutely change in 2020. 

 

Semantics at this point. I took your 100% disappointment comment as in he was completely a disappointment. I don't think anyone can argue that we were all disappointed he wasn't a Vlad Jr, Soto, Tatis Jr type immediately. However, I view his season much like I viewed Magglio's rookie year, you could tell there was a lot left on the table and big things were coming. 

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If there's one thing that's disappointed me with Eloy, it's his glove, not his bat. Wasn't expecting a world beater, but did not think he would be THIS bad. 

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3 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

If there's one thing that's disappointed me with Eloy, it's his glove, not his bat. Wasn't expecting a world beater, but did not think he would be THIS bad. 

Eloy looked pretty decent in the OF in between his injuries.  I think he has the ability to be an average defender if he works at it and doesn't put on too much weight.  But yah, he's never going to be good out there.    

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31 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

If there's one thing that's disappointed me with Eloy, it's his glove, not his bat. Wasn't expecting a world beater, but did not think he would be THIS bad. 

His arm is so bad that it's a liability. I told everyone he was awful in LF. It's only a matter of time before his arm starts costing them meaningful games. Between his defense and his arm I really don't know how you can continue to send him out there, even at age 23.  He costs you games. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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18 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

His arm is so bad that it's a liability. I told everyone he was awful in LF. It's only a matter of time before his arm starts costing them meaningful games. Between his defense and his arm I really don't know how you can continue to send him out there, even at age 23.  He costs you games. 

The next day a left fielders arm is the make or break from winning and losing will be the first in baseball history. It is already a historically weak defensive position and a LF'ers arm may mean less than anything else on a baseball field defensively.

Manny Ramirez and Carlos Lee spent a decade ++ in LF - I'm pretty sure Eloy playing left with a very good defensive CF'er like Robert will mean very little. You're overreacting. Bad fielders have been in LF since the invention of the game and Eloy is far from the worst of the bunch.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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20 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

His arm is so bad that it's a liability. I told everyone he was awful in LF. It's only a matter of time before his arm starts costing them meaningful games. Between his defense and his arm I really don't know how you can continue to send him out there, even at age 23.  He costs you games. 

Naw I'm not going that far. I'm not sure how often fangraphs updates their stats, but he was a -11 DRS just a few weeks ago. Now he's a -9 DRS. Still not good, but he's improving. 

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2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

 

 

The next day a left fielders arm is the make or break from winning and losing will be the first in baseball history. It is already a historically weak defensive position and a LF'ers arm may mean less than anything else on a baseball field defensively.

Manny Ramirez and Carlos Lee spent a decade ++ in LF - I'm pretty sure Eloy playing left with a very good defensive CF'er like Robert will mean very little. You're overreacting. Bad fielders have been in LF since the invention of the game and Eloy is far from the worst of the bunch.

They run on him all of the time and score/take the extra base every time. I don't recall him ever throwing anyone out. Its one thing to have a weak arm in LF, but Eloy has a Juan Pierre level noodle arm. 

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2 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

Naw I'm not going that far. I'm not sure how often fangraphs updates their stats, but he was a -11 DRS just a few weeks ago. Now he's a -9 DRS. Still not good, but he's improving. 

That would practically equal (-9) Mannys best defensive year in his career lol.

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6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

They run on him all of the time and score/take the extra base every time. I don't recall him ever throwing anyone out. Its one thing to have a weak arm in LF, but Eloy has a Juan Pierre level noodle arm. 

Awesome, they ran on Scott Podsednik constantly. Juan Pierre spent 10 years in CF'er with an arm weaker than my wife who has never thrown a baseball in her life. Eloy's arm is much better than Juan Pierre.

You are greatly exaggerating both how bad Eloy is in left and the importance of LF defense

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

They run on him all of the time and score/take the extra base every time. I don't recall him ever throwing anyone out. Its one thing to have a weak arm in LF, but Eloy has a Juan Pierre level noodle arm. 

I've never seen Juan Pierre throw a ball to home plate in his career (and if he did, I'm sure the ball bounced like 7 times before reaching home plate). I've seen Eloy do it a couple of times off of one hop. He may not have the velocity on his throws, but nothing wrong with his arm strength. 

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1 minute ago, SoxAce said:

I've never seen Juan Pierre throw a ball to home plate in his career (and if he did, I'm sure the ball bounced like 7 times before reaching home plate). I've seen Eloy do it a couple of times off of one hop. He may not have the velocity on his throws, but nothing wrong with his arm strength. 

That was intentional hyperbole, but you get the point. He has not only a weak arm, but poor accuracy. 

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2 hours ago, Tony said:

I've maintained that for a while, he's far too young to just remove him from LF and make him a full time DH. He can still improve a great deal in LF, and quite frankly expect him to. 

I have said before that he is better IMO than what I expected.  He has caught the routine stuff and actually thrown in a few surprisingly good catches.  Eloy defense is very low on my worry list.

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