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31 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

If there's one thing that's disappointed me with Eloy, it's his glove, not his bat. Wasn't expecting a world beater, but did not think he would be THIS bad. 

His arm is so bad that it's a liability. I told everyone he was awful in LF. It's only a matter of time before his arm starts costing them meaningful games. Between his defense and his arm I really don't know how you can continue to send him out there, even at age 23.  He costs you games. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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18 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

His arm is so bad that it's a liability. I told everyone he was awful in LF. It's only a matter of time before his arm starts costing them meaningful games. Between his defense and his arm I really don't know how you can continue to send him out there, even at age 23.  He costs you games. 

The next day a left fielders arm is the make or break from winning and losing will be the first in baseball history. It is already a historically weak defensive position and a LF'ers arm may mean less than anything else on a baseball field defensively.

Manny Ramirez and Carlos Lee spent a decade ++ in LF - I'm pretty sure Eloy playing left with a very good defensive CF'er like Robert will mean very little. You're overreacting. Bad fielders have been in LF since the invention of the game and Eloy is far from the worst of the bunch.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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20 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

His arm is so bad that it's a liability. I told everyone he was awful in LF. It's only a matter of time before his arm starts costing them meaningful games. Between his defense and his arm I really don't know how you can continue to send him out there, even at age 23.  He costs you games. 

Naw I'm not going that far. I'm not sure how often fangraphs updates their stats, but he was a -11 DRS just a few weeks ago. Now he's a -9 DRS. Still not good, but he's improving. 

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2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

 

 

The next day a left fielders arm is the make or break from winning and losing will be the first in baseball history. It is already a historically weak defensive position and a LF'ers arm may mean less than anything else on a baseball field defensively.

Manny Ramirez and Carlos Lee spent a decade ++ in LF - I'm pretty sure Eloy playing left with a very good defensive CF'er like Robert will mean very little. You're overreacting. Bad fielders have been in LF since the invention of the game and Eloy is far from the worst of the bunch.

They run on him all of the time and score/take the extra base every time. I don't recall him ever throwing anyone out. Its one thing to have a weak arm in LF, but Eloy has a Juan Pierre level noodle arm. 

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1 minute ago, SoxAce said:

Naw I'm not going that far. I'm not sure how often fangraphs updates their stats, but he was a -11 DRS just a few weeks ago. Now he's a -9 DRS. Still not good, but he's improving. 

I've maintained that for a while, he's far too young to just remove him from LF and make him a full time DH. He can still improve a great deal in LF, and quite frankly expect him to. 

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2 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

Naw I'm not going that far. I'm not sure how often fangraphs updates their stats, but he was a -11 DRS just a few weeks ago. Now he's a -9 DRS. Still not good, but he's improving. 

That would practically equal (-9) Mannys best defensive year in his career lol.

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6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

They run on him all of the time and score/take the extra base every time. I don't recall him ever throwing anyone out. Its one thing to have a weak arm in LF, but Eloy has a Juan Pierre level noodle arm. 

Awesome, they ran on Scott Podsednik constantly. Juan Pierre spent 10 years in CF'er with an arm weaker than my wife who has never thrown a baseball in her life. Eloy's arm is much better than Juan Pierre.

You are greatly exaggerating both how bad Eloy is in left and the importance of LF defense

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

They run on him all of the time and score/take the extra base every time. I don't recall him ever throwing anyone out. Its one thing to have a weak arm in LF, but Eloy has a Juan Pierre level noodle arm. 

I've never seen Juan Pierre throw a ball to home plate in his career (and if he did, I'm sure the ball bounced like 7 times before reaching home plate). I've seen Eloy do it a couple of times off of one hop. He may not have the velocity on his throws, but nothing wrong with his arm strength. 

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1 minute ago, SoxAce said:

I've never seen Juan Pierre throw a ball to home plate in his career (and if he did, I'm sure the ball bounced like 7 times before reaching home plate). I've seen Eloy do it a couple of times off of one hop. He may not have the velocity on his throws, but nothing wrong with his arm strength. 

That was intentional hyperbole, but you get the point. He has not only a weak arm, but poor accuracy. 

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2 hours ago, Tony said:

I've maintained that for a while, he's far too young to just remove him from LF and make him a full time DH. He can still improve a great deal in LF, and quite frankly expect him to. 

I have said before that he is better IMO than what I expected.  He has caught the routine stuff and actually thrown in a few surprisingly good catches.  Eloy defense is very low on my worry list.

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What we don't know is whether or not he has ever really worked on his throwing.  If healthy, he can improve.

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31 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I have said before that he is better IMO than what I expected.  He has caught the routine stuff and actually thrown in a few surprisingly good catches.  Eloy defense is very low on my worry list.

Did you expect him to be blind out there?

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42 minutes ago, fathom said:

Did you expect him to be blind out there?

No...I expected him to be like Garcia is playing tonight.

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5 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Eloy looked pretty decent in the OF in between his injuries.  I think he has the ability to be an average defender if he works at it and doesn't put on too much weight.  But yah, he's never going to be good out there.    

Tell him he's our left fielder. Case closed. Tell him it's up to him to get better this offseason. Outline where he needs to go; what he needs to do. Give him October and November off then ship him to Arizona for January, then give him a few weeks off before start of spring training.

He's such a good hitter; it's up to him to field a bit.

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10 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Moncada, who could never hit .300 with an OPS above .870, is at .301 with an OPS of .891 on September 11 with 7 games left

Did you mean 17 games left?

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27 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Moncada, who could never hit .300 with an OPS above .870, is at .301 with an OPS of .891 on September 11 with 7 games left

We'll wait until the end of the season to bust @The Sir's balls. Both are teetering right now. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

We'll wait until the end of the season to bust @The Sir's balls. Both are teetering right now. 

Kid has had a helluva year.  Scary thing is he might only be scratching the surface.  If he can boost his defense up another level (or avoid the early season errors he had this year really), add in another 10-15 steals and stay health he could be looking at a 6-8 WAR prime.  It really won't take a lot of improvement.  He'll regress some with BABIP but I expect his walk rate to increase next year as he gets avoided more often and his approach continues to mature.

Edited by chitownsportsfan

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1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Kid has had a helluva year.  Scary thing is he might only be scratching the surface.  If he can boost his defense up another level (or avoid the early season errors he had this year really), add in another 10-15 steals and stay health he could be looking at a 6-8 WAR prime.  It really won't take a lot of improvement.  He'll regress some with BABIP but I expect his walk rate to increase next year as he gets avoided more often and his approach continues to mature.

QFT. He's so talented. I think there's going to be a point where Moncada is a clear #2 in baseball to Trout. He might rival him during individual seasons in his late 20s. 

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12 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

We'll wait until the end of the season to bust @The Sir's balls. Both are teetering right now. 

He already conceded that he was wrong about Moncada (at least from what I remember) a couple months ago, so he's good in my book 

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Just now, Jose Abreu said:

He already conceded that he was wrong about Moncada (at least from what I remember) a couple months ago, so he's good in my book 

Well, people bust my balls about stuff. If you could direct me to it, that would be nice. 

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Just now, Jack Parkman said:

Well, people bust my balls about stuff. If you could direct me to it, that would be nice. 

I think it was in some minor league game thread. I can try to find it later today. All I remember is reading a post of his that mentioned Moncada and making a mental note to not bother him at the end of the season :lol: 

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On 7/12/2019 at 12:01 AM, The Sir said:

He might have, already. I see everything in patterns. So when Moncada started hot, I figured it’d follow last year’s trajectory. Hot start, big slump, sight boost late, mediocre overall. I was being sincere when I said I didn’t think he’d OPS .800. But he’s only gotten better since I said that. Maybe I should ditch my obsession with seeing patterns in everything.

@Jack Parkman Actually that didn't take long, I think this was it

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3 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

We'll wait until the end of the season to bust @The Sir's balls. Both are teetering right now. 

As long as you're prepared for me to venture over to the Job Thread and remorselessly kick you in the nuts for every single non-baseball hot take...😆

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