Moncada

[Two-Gun Pete]

He's clearly a bust. If he isnt hitting now, he'll never hit. He's almost 23 for crying out loud. No one who is any good has ever had a rough 10 game stretch.

Except that it hasn't just been a 10 game stretch. He hasn't hit as a RH very well, except for a bit during garbage time in 2017. I think it's perfectly legit for fans to be concerned.

 

For me, I view this 3 different ways:

 

1. Renteria needs to put ALL of his players in the best position to succeed, not just 1 guy out of 25. Moncada clearly isn't a leadoff man right now, & putting him there hurts the other 24 guys in the roster and THEIR development.

 

2. Im f***ing sick of hearing about "development at the MLB level" for prospects in this org. How has that worked out so far? Since Beckham, what has this org developed doing it this way? Even IF you buy Avi's juiced ball and BABIP-luck filled 2017 (I don't ), this org SQUANDERED a lot of controllable years for him.

 

So, I don't want to see Eloy or Kopech until they're CLEARLY DOMINANT in Charlotte, even if I have to wait until 2019. The rush-and-hope system simply hasn't worked for this org, full stop.

 

3. All of that said, I believe in Moncada's potential. He just may squander half of his controllable years before he figures it out at the MLB level. But batting him leadoff is hurting him and hurting his team mate's development, IMHO. Letting him continue to spin his wheels as a RH bat hurts him & hurts his team mates, IMHO.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Two-Gun Pete

[The Sir]

Rick Hahn should be handed his walking papers if Moncada ends up back in Charlotte this year due to poor play. The kid was supposed to be a can't miss prospect. He has nothing left to learn in the minors. It is time to sink or swim with the big boys.

 

I can agree with this.

 

Despite all of my criticism, and despite the fact that I'm very cautious about Moncada's potential at this moment, I want him to get time. I don't want him to go to Charlotte and I don't even really want him to get bumped down the order. Pete makes a fair and interesting point, but regardless, I'd still have Moncada lead off for 160 games this year. Sink or swim.

 

That said, if Moncada doesn't pan out (and that is far from decided right now), Rick Hahn should be the one to pay the price. The Tatis fiasco was bad enough, but this would be the final straw.

[Dick Allen]

I can agree with this.

 

Despite all of my criticism, and despite the fact that I'm very cautious about Moncada's potential at this moment, I want him to get time. I don't want him to go to Charlotte and I don't even really want him to get bumped down the order. Pete makes a fair and interesting point, but regardless, I'd still have Moncada lead off for 160 games this year. Sink or swim.

 

That said, if Moncada doesn't pan out (and that is far from decided right now), Rick Hahn should be the one to pay the price. The Tatis fiasco was bad enough, but this would be the final straw.

Moncada's a bust, Tatis with his .494 OPS at AA is a can't miss star.

 

I love extremely small sample size conclusions.

 

 

How come no one is freaking out about Giolito? He's pretty much sucked.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Chicago White Sox]

Rick Hahn should be handed his walking papers if Moncada ends up back in Charlotte this year due to poor play. The kid was supposed to be a can't miss prospect. He has nothing left to learn in the minors. It is time to sink or swim with the big boys.

Kyle Schwarber had to reset down in Iowa last year, should Theo be fired? Baseball is a hard game and sometimes you need to put players in a position to succeed to help overcome mental, physical, or mechanical hurdles. I’m not suggesting that will be necessary for Yoan, but it’s a real option to consider if he’s still striking out over 40% or the time a month from now.

[Hatchetman]

This is certainly a disheartening start to the season.

[oneofthemikes]

I would hold off any concerns w Gio. Some pitchers do have problems w cold weather. I thought Moncada should have been moved out of the leadoff spot a week ago. usually cold weather favors the batter so I don't think his issues are weather related.

 

It's possible that we have another Alexei Ramirez situation on our hands. He always started out poorly and then when the weather warmed up, so did he. Guys from Cuba haven't ever had to play in the cold.

[Dick Allen]

Kyle Schwarber had to reset down in Iowa last year, should Theo be fired? Baseball is a hard game and sometimes you need to put players in a position to succeed to help overcome mental, physical, or mechanical hurdles. I’m not suggesting that will be necessary for Yoan, but it’s a real option to consider if he’s still striking out over 40% or the time a month from now.

Javy Baez was a strikeout machine at first as well.

[footlongcomiskeydog]

Kyle Schwarber had to reset down in Iowa last year, should Theo be fired? Baseball is a hard game and sometimes you need to put players in a position to succeed to help overcome mental, physical, or mechanical hurdles. I’m not suggesting that will be necessary for Yoan, but it’s a real option to consider if he’s still striking out over 40% or the time a month from now.

 

The Cubs didn't trade the best pitcher in the history of their franchise for Kyle Schwarber. Huge difference man. The Sox need Yoan to be a stud.

[soxfan49]

Javy Baez was a strikeout machine at first as well.

He still sort of is. 28% last year.

 

In what world is a 104 wRC+ and a .750 OPS not good from a 22 year old?

The world where we expect more from the main piece of a trade where our favorite team traded the best pitcher in baseball.

 

It's possible that we have another Alexei Ramirez situation on our hands. He always started out poorly and then when the weather warmed up, so did he. Guys from Cuba haven't ever had to play in the cold.

Probably 70%, if not more, of the MLB is from Texas, Florida, California or somewhere in the Caribbean or South America. Give this excuse a rest.

 

Moncada's a bust, Tatis with his .494 OPS at AA is a can't miss star.

 

I love extremely small sample size conclusions.

 

 

How come no one is freaking out about Giolito? He's pretty much sucked.

No one is saying he IS a bust. They're saying he has been bad *so far*. FWIW Tatis has been s*** to start the year.

 

Oh, and if you don't think anyone is freaking out about Giolito, read the game thread from last night.

Edited April 13, 2018 by soxfan49

[caulfield12]

Kyle Schwarber had to reset down in Iowa last year, should Theo be fired? Baseball is a hard game and sometimes you need to put players in a position to succeed to help overcome mental, physical, or mechanical hurdles. I’m not suggesting that will be necessary for Yoan, but it’s a real option to consider if he’s still striking out over 40% or the time a month from now.

 

Did Bryant struggle and get sent down? Rizzo?

 

Most of their young players like Russell, Baez, Happ, Almora and Schwarber have contributed something along the way. They also signed Gleyber Torres and Eloy Jimenez. Not a bad track record, other than Soler/Heyward.

 

More importantly, Willson Contreras might be the biggest overall contributor of all after Bryant, but their rebuild was never marketed around him being a core contributor in the early stages.

[Dick Allen]

The Cubs didn't trade the best pitcher in the history of their franchise for Kyle Schwarber. Huge difference man. The Sox need Yoan to be a stud.

I love Chris Sale. His antics never bothered me like they did some, but c'mon man. Moncada was the #1 ranked prospect. What good would Sale do pitching on the White Sox now.?

 

Last year people were freaking out Hahn waited too long to get rid of Q. Seems currently he did OK. That rumored Pirate package seems like a bust. And posters were saying he has to take what he can get.

 

Freaking out about a young guy learning his way at a level he hasn't had much experience, in weather he may have never played in, is ridiculous. Moncada will be fine.

 

 

[Jose Abreu]

Did Bryant struggle and get sent down? Rizzo?

 

Most of their young players like Russell, Baez, Happ, Almora and Schwarber have contributed something along the way. They also signed Gleyber Torres and Eloy Jimenez. Not a bad track record, other than Soler/Heyward.

What about letting go of Chris Archer? Josh Donaldson? There are so many misses in that organization that get overlooked (which I get, since they also have plenty of conversions).

[TheTruth05]

Except that it hasn't just been a 10 game stretch. He hasn't hit as a RH very well, except for a bit during garbage time in 2017. I think it's perfectly legit for fans to be concerned.

 

For me, I view this 3 different ways:

 

1. Renteria needs to put ALL of his players in the best position to succeed, not just 1 guy out of 25. Moncada clearly isn't a leadoff man right now, & putting him there hurts the other 24 guys in the roster and THEIR development.

 

2. Im f***ing sick of hearing about "development at the MLB level" for prospects in this org. How has that worked out so far? Since Beckham, what has this org developed doing it this way? Even IF you buy Avi's juiced ball and BABIP-luck filled 2017 (I don't ), this org SQUANDERED a lot of controllable years for him.

 

So, I don't want to see Eloy or Kopech until they're CLEARLY DOMINANT in Charlotte, even if I have to wait until 2019. The rush-and-hope system simply hasn't worked for this org, full stop.

 

3. All of that said, I believe in Moncada's potential. He just may squander half of his controllable years before he figures it out at the MLB level. But batting him leadoff is hurting him and hurting his team mate's development, IMHO. Letting him continue to spin his wheels as a RH bat hurts him & hurts his team mates, IMHO.

 

This post pretty much sums up my feelings but I disagree hitting leadoff is hurting his development. I just believe if he's gonna hit it's going to be in any spot in the order.

 

The Cubs didn't trade the best pitcher in the history of their franchise for Kyle Schwarber. Huge difference man. The Sox need Yoan to be a stud.

 

This is really what's behind the huge dissapointment so far with Moncada, if he was just a regular signee nobody would be this disheartened but Sox traded away a HOF pitcher with plans for this kid to be a cornerstone so him not becoming one would be a huge blow to a fanbase looking for hope.

[Kyyle23]

Did Bryant struggle and get sent down? Rizzo?

 

Most of their young players like Russell, Baez, Happ, Almora and Schwarber have contributed something along the way. They also signed Gleyber Torres and Eloy Jimenez. Not a bad track record, other than Soler/Heyward.

 

More importantly, Willson Contreras might be the biggest overall contributor of all after Bryant, but their rebuild was never marketed around him being a core contributor in the early stages.

 

Uh yea, Rizzo did get sent down. So did Schwarber, and I think Baez was up and down before Maddon became manager

[Southwest Sider]

I have the highest of expectations for Moncada as well, as should everyone here. At this point, if you are so unhappy with his production that you just can't stand yet, I'd say take a step back. You are following it too closely. Scrutinizing every game, every at bat, every pitch. You can't do that. Seasons and careers are judged on the whole. I'm also disappointed with his slow start, but not surprised and definitely not upset. Prospects need time to prove what they are going to be. Even IF he was lighting the world on fire, he hasn't standardized how his career trajectory is going to go. We all thought Beckham was the next big thing after his rookie year and look how that worked out.

 

My point is is that you simply cannot make any judgments on Moncada yet because he hasn't been around long enough to prove what he's going to be. It took Beckham at least 3 seasons, maybe 4, to prove that his rookie season was a fluke and that his 2nd season wasn't just a sophomore slump. To that end, it is a pointless mental exercise to come here and post FUD about his career when he hasn't even played 1 whole MLB season. You are wasting yours, and everyone else's time by doing this.

 

 

[Jose Abreu]

The world where we expect more from the main piece of a trade where our favorite team traded the best pitcher in baseball.

Then I'm sorry, but if you expected him to be better than above average in his rookie year, I think your expectations were too high.

[Justinsettle]

The problem with Moncada is that he only makes contact with 75% of pitches that are strikes. That is very bad and unlikely to change regardless of how many at bats at the ML level. Its very similar to that of Schwarber which is why he probably won't stay in the majors for very long. Tim Anderson to contrast makes contact over 80% of the time. Fangraphs had an article last year regarding this about Schwarber and showed that no one really improves that rate and the list of players that had similar contact rates and actually had a successful career is relatively small.

 

Also IMO to keep sending him out at lead off is crazy. Its setting him up to fail. Its normal for you young players to swing at balls outside the zone and that gets better with experience- but contact rates in the zone typically don't. I'm not saying he is a bust but it is very concerning over his first 350 abats.

[FloydBannister1983]

How come no one is freaking out about Giolito? He's pretty much sucked.

 

You're on the wrong site. Go over to White Sox Interactive or The SCORE's message boards and you'll see plenty of people freaking out about how Giolito has sucked.

 

[caulfield12]

Except he barely has a half season of at bats, if you count 2016-17-18 together.

 

Around 300.

Edited April 13, 2018 by caulfield12

[FloydBannister1983]

Kyle Schwarber had to reset down in Iowa last year, should Theo be fired? Baseball is a hard game and sometimes you need to put players in a position to succeed to help overcome mental, physical, or mechanical hurdles. I’m not suggesting that will be necessary for Yoan, but it’s a real option to consider if he’s still striking out over 40% or the time a month from now.

 

Theo Epstein has a track record of winning. Rick Hahn has a six year track record of losing. Not a good comparison.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

The Cubs didn't trade the best pitcher in the history of their franchise for Kyle Schwarber. Huge difference man. The Sox need Yoan to be a stud.

I don’t disagree we need Moncada to be a stud, but development is development. If Yoan ultimately needs two weeks in Charlotte at some point to figure his s*** then I’m all for it. This idea that Yoan must “sink or swim” at the major league level is ludicrous. Sometimes working through adjustments against lesser competition is more effective than trying to do so at the major league level. I don’t think it will come to that but everything should be on the table when it comes to solving Moncada’s swing & miss issues. The good news is it’s only been 12 games so there’s plenty of time for Yoan to show some improvement before we have to consider that path.

[soxfan49]

Then I'm sorry, but if you expected him to be better than above average in his rookie year, I think your expectations were too high.

You're right. I should have realized he struck out like it's no one's business everywhere he played, and then my expectations would have been lower.

Edited April 13, 2018 by soxfan49

[Jose Abreu]

You're right. I should have realized he strikes out like it's no one's business everywhere he played, and then my expectations would have been lower.

I've noticed that whenever I bring numbers into this, you tend to ignore them. It's entirely possible for someone to be a positive impact player with a high strikeout rate. Last year, that would apply to Moncada. This year, with the .80 discrepancy between his wOBA and his xwOBA, it should happen again.

[southsider2k5]

I think I'm just going to stop following the site during the rebuild. Some of you guys are miserable.

 

For all of the people that begged for a rebuild, there are too many who can't handle a rebuild. This is a process, and it will take YEARS, not 12 games. Stressing over the micro's of pitch to pitch in a process like this is such a waste of time. Zoom out and look at this as a timeline and not the next pitch.

[southsider2k5]

You don't think we know that? We're not complaining about the W/L record, we're complaining about our "prized" prospects getting to the majors and not being able to even make contact or find the strike zone. It is ridiculous. It seems like they're doing fine until they get to the majors and then they take 3 steps backward. There's no development going on, only regression. That is the complaint. Giolito, Lopez and Fulmer walked at least 5 batters in each of their last starts. Moncada has struck out in 9/12 PA his last 3 games. Avi sucks again. Nobody else on the team seems to have a clue at the plate either, except for Abreu. Eventually he won't get anything to hit either once the AL realizes that he has nothing around him. I know Lopez has pitched well in terms of runs allowed so far but he's going to get killed eventually if he walks 3-5 batters a game.

 

You don't act like you know it. You are so caught up in the minutia of a process that has barely begun, in a season that is 12 games old. If you go pitch to pitch on this, you are never going to make it.