Panerista Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Didn't greg say that Yoan would likely be in open rebellion? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Why is everyone so mad at people being upset? People need to vent to get through this brutal season, so le them. Everyone knows deep down inside this was the only way to go, but frustration cannot be avoided for humans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said: Why is everyone so mad at people being upset? People need to vent to get through this brutal season, so le them. Everyone knows deep down inside this was the only way to go, but frustration cannot be avoided for humans. Why would people expect to have their opinions NOT generate replies on a public message board? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: Why is everyone so mad at people being upset? People need to vent to get through this brutal season, so le them. Everyone knows deep down inside this was the only way to go, but frustration cannot be avoided for humans. Because complaining about losing in a rebuild is like complaining about noise in a thunderstorm. Uh...duh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 I don't think people are complaining much about a rebuild. I think they are complaining that the White Sox seem to be out of most games, with no shot of winning. But there are teams that are worse. I would hate to be a Royals fan. Think about how long they are going to suck. They don't have a heck of a lot to trade and the pieces they do have, the stock is dropping. Danny Duffy has been pretty awful. Sal Perez is starting to get hurt annually and has some mileage behind the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, AustinIllini said: Because complaining about losing in a rebuild is like complaining about noise in a thunderstorm. Uh...duh Well that is a bad comparison. People don't trust a team that has made the playoffs 5 times in like 40 years. The organization has failed for the most part with drafting and free agent signings. And I agree with what was said earlier. The fans didn't ask to be unwatchable, so lower prices to reflect the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Dick Allen said: I don't think people are complaining much about a rebuild. I think they are complaining that the White Sox seem to be out of most games, with no shot of winning. But there are teams that are worse. I would hate to be a Royals fan. Think about how long they are going to suck. They don't have a heck of a lot to trade and the pieces they do have, the stock is dropping. Danny Duffy has been pretty awful. Sal Perez is starting to get hurt annually and has some mileage behind the plate. The Royals don't have the advantages we do. They've also played in back to back WS so they get about 5 years of a pass. This team is headed in the right direction from a management standpoint but they need to operate like they are one of the big boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Why would people expect to have their opinions NOT generate replies on a public message board? That's fine, but don't act like people are out of line for not wanting to look like complete shit. I was always against tanking this year. I felt being near. 500 this year was the better way to go. And there were enough FAs to get it done, via one year deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: That's fine, but don't act like people are out of line for not wanting to look like complete shit. I was always against tanking this year. I felt being near. 500 this year was the better way to go. And there were enough FAs to get it done, via one year deals. Does it really make any difference? Honestly...come next June I think most people will be more thankful for the top 2-3-4 pick again if not the #1 than suffering thru watching an abysmal season like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said: The Royals don't have the advantages we do. They've also played in back to back WS so they get about 5 years of a pass. This team is headed in the right direction from a management standpoint but they need to operate like they are one of the big boys. But they aren't. This is such an urban legend, but the numbers don't hold that up. Look no further than the annual business of baseball ranking as to the Sox annual revenue rankings versus the rest of baseball. Remember these rankings are taken in April, so really you are looking at the results for the previous season. Even at the peak of their rankings, they weren't a BIG boy. They are a middle sized fish at best. 2006- 14th 2007- 13th 2008- 12th 2009- 10th 2010- 10th 2011- 10th 2012- 10th 2013- 14th 2014- 16th 2015- 16th 2016- T-17th 2017- 18th 2018- 20th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 23 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: That's fine, but don't act like people are out of line for not wanting to look like complete shit. I was always against tanking this year. I felt being near. 500 this year was the better way to go. And there were enough FAs to get it done, via one year deals. And don't act like people are out of line for pointing out that this is what rebuilds look like. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 36 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: I don't think people are complaining much about a rebuild. I think they are complaining that the White Sox seem to be out of most games, with no shot of winning. But there are teams that are worse. I would hate to be a Royals fan. Think about how long they are going to suck. They don't have a heck of a lot to trade and the pieces they do have, the stock is dropping. Danny Duffy has been pretty awful. Sal Perez is starting to get hurt annually and has some mileage behind the plate. The Royals and Orioles are in much much worse shape than the White Sox are. The Royals at least have a ton of draft picks this season to help aid their rebuild, but zero impact talent in their farm as of right now. The Orioles might be in the worst shape of any mlb team, as Machado is going to bolt in free agency and the Yankees and Red Sox look stacked moving forward. Both franchises are headed for a rough 5 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, steveno89 said: The Royals and Orioles are in much much worse shape than the White Sox are. The Royals at least have a ton of draft picks this season to help aid their rebuild, but zero impact talent in their farm as of right now. The Orioles might be in the worst shape of any mlb team, as Machado is going to bolt in free agency and the Yankees and Red Sox look stacked moving forward. Both franchises are headed for a rough 5 years Add the Tigers into that mix as well. While they got lucky to shed the Verlander and Fielder money, they still have to worry about Miguel's contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tony said: If you believe your own premise that frustration cannot be avoided for humans, than you better believe I'm going to let you and others who complain about the rebuild hear it when I think you're being unbearable. The White Sox TOLD YOU this would happen. It's on YOU if you weren't ready for it. You want to cry about ticket prices? Don't go to the games. You want to cry about a rebuild and the team being bad, but you're taking the time out of your day to voluntarily post on a White Sox message board to discuss the team. No one is forcing, let alone asking you to do that. Go be mad, that's on you. But if you want to bring that frustration to a public message board, be prepared to hear back from people. It's natural for fans to vent a bit when the on field product is garbage. This is all very much expected though. 2018 was always going to be a painful rebuilding year, and 2019 might be as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Add the Tigers into that mix as well. While they got lucky to shed the Verlander and Fielder money, they still have to worry about Miguel's contract. Tigers have actually done what they could to shed big contracts and gain prospect depth. They didn't have the assets the Sox had to jump start the rebuild, but they are in better shape than the Royals and Orioles I'd say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, steveno89 said: It's natural for fans to vent a bit when the on field product is garbage. This is all very much expected though. 2018 was always going to be a painful rebuilding year, and 2019 might be as well. If this team isn't seriously better in 2019 then we'll be right on the edge of calling for heads to roll. Me included. They have a huge amount of money available. Depending on Jones and Garcia, they have something like $40-$45 million on the books for their entire team. This team should turn easy profits at $100 million total payroll and that would still leave some space to spend pre-2020 if they wanted. It's hard to spend $50 million without doing something to substantially improve the roster. On top of that, these guys should be getting better. Maybe not all of them, but there are 5-6 legit prospects up right now: Anderson, Moncada, Giolito, Fulmer, Lopez. later this year, the 2 monsters arrive. Even with some growing pains allowed...that immediately makes the roster better. Finally, some things shouldn't stay this bad forever - if Avi Garcia is this bad for this year he won't be back next year, for example. If they aren't better next year, then that means there was little to no development of the guys currently on our roster and we signed FAs who busted. That would be a very bad position to be in and that would be a good reason to wonder WTF they were doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 25 minutes ago, Tony said: Go be mad, that's on you. At least you recognize this. I am very mad. There are a lot of non prospects on the current team. The Sox management could have added some useful pieces (Soria??) to at least sniff .480 or .500 during this pathetic rebuild. I guess Hahn will say they want a top 3 pick this year and next to complete the rebuild. Get a superstar the next 2 drafts instead of a Burger type. So he'll either say or imply they want to lose 110 games to complete the rebuild. I'm mad cause I don't like being this bad and being out of the race after 2 weeks of the season. I wish they'd clean house and let some other folks complete the rebuild. And Ricky in 3 short weeks this season has proven he is NOT the man to manage this team when games count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, greg775 said: At least you recognize this. I am very mad. There are a lot of non prospects on the current team. The Sox management could have added some useful pieces (Soria??) to at least sniff .480 or .500 during this pathetic rebuild. I guess Hahn will say they want a top 3 pick this year and next to complete the rebuild. Get a superstar the next 2 drafts instead of a Burger type. So he'll either say or imply they want to lose 110 games to complete the rebuild. I'm mad cause I don't like being this bad and being out of the race after 2 weeks of the season. I wish they'd clean house and let some other folks complete the rebuild. And Ricky in 3 short weeks this season has proven he is NOT the man to manage this team when games count. Answer me this. Who was the last team to succeed in a rebuild by this method? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, greg775 said: At least you recognize this. I am very mad. There are a lot of non prospects on the current team. The Sox management could have added some useful pieces (Soria??) to at least sniff .480 or .500 during this pathetic rebuild. I guess Hahn will say they want a top 3 pick this year and next to complete the rebuild. Get a superstar the next 2 drafts instead of a Burger type. So he'll either say or imply they want to lose 110 games to complete the rebuild. I'm mad cause I don't like being this bad and being out of the race after 2 weeks of the season. I wish they'd clean house and let some other folks complete the rebuild. And Ricky in 3 short weeks this season has proven he is NOT the man to manage this team when games count. Adding some random useful pieces on a roster no where near ready to compete is exactly how we wound up with your friend LaRoche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 The Sox are already 5 games behind their pace last year when they lost 95. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Adding some random useful pieces on a roster no where near ready to compete is exactly how we wound up with your friend LaRoche. Or greg's favorite player Alex Rios. That's the type of players greg is looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Answer me this. Who was the last team to succeed in a rebuild by this method? We can go ahead and rebuild. I'm just saying the only reason to be THIS BAD is to get a top 3 draft pick instead of 6 or 7. There are only 4-5 guys on the current roster who are part of the true rebuild. What is it, 2 pitchers? I don't consider Yolmer and Leury as guys who need to be developed. Ditto Delmonico, Trayce, even Davidson. So we could have some good players to go with Avi and Abreu while still 'rebuilding.' I'm just saying the Sox are ripping off the public with that 60 mill payroll. We're only developing a handful of players for the rebuild in the bigs right now: Anderson, Moncada, Gio, Lopez, maybe Davidson. I'm not a Delmonico guy or a Trayce guy. Those guys can't play. So it's just $$$ that's keeping the Sox from having some real players hold down the fort til the true prospects are ready. And yes I'll call them out for wanting to rip off the fan. Those delicious corned beef sandwiches should not be the only reason fans want to go to the Cell this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Just now, greg775 said: We can go ahead and rebuild. I'm just saying the only reason to be THIS BAD is to get a top 3 draft pick instead of 6 or 7. There are only 4-5 guys on the current roster who are part of the true rebuild. What is it, 2 pitchers? I don't consider Yolmer and Leury as guys who need to be developed. Ditto Delmonico, Trayce, even Davidson. So we could have some good players to go with Avi and Abreu while still 'rebuilding.' I'm just saying the Sox are ripping off the public with that 60 mill payroll. We're only developing a handful of players for the rebuild in the bigs right now: Anderson, Moncada, Gio, Lopez, maybe Davidson. I'm not a Delmonico guy or a Trayce guy. Those guys can't play. So it's just $$$ that's keeping the Sox from having some real players hold down the fort til the true prospects are ready. And yes I'll call them out for wanting to rip off the fan. Those delicious corned beef sandwiches should not be the only reason fans want to go to the Cell this season. So you can't answer the question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, greg775 said: We can go ahead and rebuild. I'm just saying the only reason to be THIS BAD is to get a top 3 draft pick instead of 6 or 7. There are only 4-5 guys on the current roster who are part of the true rebuild. What is it, 2 pitchers? I don't consider Yolmer and Leury as guys who need to be developed. Ditto Delmonico, Trayce, even Davidson. So we could have some good players to go with Avi and Abreu while still 'rebuilding.' I'm just saying the Sox are ripping off the public with that 60 mill payroll. We're only developing a handful of players for the rebuild in the bigs right now: Anderson, Moncada, Gio, Lopez, maybe Davidson. I'm not a Delmonico guy or a Trayce guy. Those guys can't play. So it's just $$$ that's keeping the Sox from having some real players hold down the fort til the true prospects are ready. And yes I'll call them out for wanting to rip off the fan. Those delicious corned beef sandwiches should not be the only reason fans want to go to the Cell this season. They're only ripping off the people who have no idea that they're rebuilding. This is a non-competitive season. Edited April 23, 2018 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 1 hour ago, SonofaRoache said: Well that is a bad comparison. People don't trust a team that has made the playoffs 5 times in like 40 years. The organization has failed for the most part with drafting and free agent signings. And I agree with what was said earlier. The fans didn't ask to be unwatchable, so lower prices to reflect the product. If the attached is correct, the White Sox had the 2nd largest % increase in ticket prices in 2018. But they also are in the bottom 3rd for overall ticket pricing. They probably should be running ticket promotions to attract fans understanding the product may be more AAA than MLB quality. https://www.vividseats.com/blog/2018-mlb-ticket-prices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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