Eloy Jimenez

[ptatc]

2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Then you bring Kopech up midseason to a terrible team that can't score runs and there's a good chance he loses command trying to strike everyone out, or worse, he fucks his arm up because he's trying to throw everything 107 MPH. 

He tries to throw everything 107 anyway. Its the nature of todays pitcher. This is why there aeee so many UCL reconstructions. He needs to come to the MLB and learn and adjust at some point and it needs to be done beofre the are ready to contend so he is ready whenthe team is ready.

[Eminor3rd]

Just now, greg775 said:

You trust the remodelers.  We don’t

So the solution is to sabotage them?

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Eminor3rd said:

So the solution is to sabotage them?

The solution is obviously to sit there and scream at the remodelers until their work is done.

[ptatc]

25 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The solution is obviously to sit there and scream at the remodelers until their work is done.

Sounds like my wifes philosophy. 😁

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

Sounds like my wifes philosophy. 😁

I bet I know who the "remodelers" are in this scenario, lol.

[SonofaRoache]

54 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If they aren't ready to be here, it doesn't do them any good to be here. 

Kopech and Eloy are just about ready to be here, in a few months. So the only issue is team control at this point.

[SonofaRoache]

56 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Then you bring Kopech up midseason to a terrible team that can't score runs and there's a good chance he loses command trying to strike everyone out, or worse, he fucks his arm up because he's trying to throw everything 107 MPH. 

Let's not make up straw man scenarios. I could just as easily say sitting him til next year will make him mad and lose control out of frustration. If he is the guy we expect him to be, he will have ups and downs but will be fine pitching later this season. We have coaches who can reign a guy in who wants to overcompensate for the team's failures anyway.

[TaylorStSox]

10 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Let's not make up straw man scenarios. I could just as easily say sitting him til next year will make him mad and lose control out of frustration. If he is the guy we expect him to be, he will have ups and downs but will be fine pitching later this season. We have coaches who can reign a guy in who wants to overcompensate for the team's failures anyway.

I'm not sure you know what that term means. Let me help you.

Strawman Fallacy

Edited May 10, 2018 by TaylorStSox

[Wanne]

2 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

To be fair, a true comparison would be you waiting 4 years for the kitchen to be complete, not two months. In the mean time, you will get to use small bits as time progresses.

seeing how it only took a tad over 2 weeks to get my kitchen completely redone...I find it a stupid analogy. 

 

[elrockinMT]

I am wondering if Delmonico will be healthy for the Cubs series? Listed as day to day but we are in a NL Park and need that position player. Moncada not eligible to return yet so there might be a move. Maybe

Edited May 10, 2018 by elrockinMT

[SonofaRoache]

1 hour ago, TaylorStSox said:

I'm not sure you know what that term means. Let me help you.

Strawman Fallacy

You exaggerated an outcome based on positions people held. To say he will throw 107 and lose control of his stuff because he is on a losing team is an exaggeration of the points people were making.

[SonofaRoache]

33 minutes ago, Wanne said:

seeing how it only took a tad over 2 weeks to get my kitchen completely redone...I find it a stupid analogy. 

 

The analogy was bad anyway, although I loved how people were praising him for it. If the Sox rebuild was short and certain of working out great, no one would care. A better example would be him hiring a guy who has never done a kitchen before, but has the potential to do it correctly. The guy also needs at least a year to finish it, and if he failed you wouldn't have a kitchen for a few more years.

[Thad Bosley]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The solution is obviously to sit there and scream at the remodelers until their work is done.

"Screaming" at these particular remodelers is probably appropriate at this point.  There haven't been many nice "kitchens" resulting from their handiwork these past 18 years that they've been trying their hand at this.  

[southsider2k5]

11 minutes ago, Fan O'Faust said:

"Screaming" at these particular remodelers is probably appropriate at this point.  There haven't been many nice "kitchens" resulting from their handiwork these past 18 years that they've been trying their hand at this.  

To be fair, there haven't exactly been many people in the kitchen either, but many more self-professed remodleling experts.

[BlackSox13]

Yeah, let's hurry to bring Kopech/Jimenez up and if they struggle, turn around and b**** about how they were rushed and that the Sox are notorious for doing this. 

 

The reality is that Kopech is still struggling with his control at AAA and Jimenez still has another level to excel at before he gets called up. 

 

I'm hoping we don't see either of them as Sox regulars until the third or fourth week of April 2019. 

[Balta1701]

55 minutes ago, Fan O'Faust said:

"Screaming" at these particular remodelers is probably appropriate at this point.  There haven't been many nice "kitchens" resulting from their handiwork these past 18 years that they've been trying their hand at this.  

18 years? There was a pretty darn spectacular kitchen built 13 years ago. Best in the world that year.

[Eminor3rd]

1 hour ago, SonofaRoache said:

The analogy was bad anyway, although I loved how people were praising him for it. If the Sox rebuild was short and certain of working out great, no one would care. A better example would be him hiring a guy who has never done a kitchen before, but has the potential to do it correctly. The guy also needs at least a year to finish it, and if he failed you wouldn't have a kitchen for a few more years.

 

1 hour ago, Wanne said:

seeing how it only took a tad over 2 weeks to get my kitchen completely redone...I find it a stupid analogy. 

 

Nope -- great analogy. Problem is your kitchen remodel wasn't ambitious enough!

[Eminor3rd]

3 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

Let's not make up straw man scenarios. I could just as easily say sitting him til next year will make him mad and lose control out of frustration. If he is the guy we expect him to be, he will have ups and downs but will be fine pitching later this season. We have coaches who can reign a guy in who wants to overcompensate for the team's failures anyway.

And those coaches are saying he isn't ready yet. That's the whole point. 

We don't want to disrupt the process just because this team is hard to watch on TV right now.

[SonofaRoache]

2 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

And those coaches are saying he isn't ready yet. That's the whole point. 

We don't want to disrupt the process just because this team is hard to watch on TV right now.

I'll go back through this thread but I don't see too many folks saying to bring them up to the big leagues tomorrow. Most want Eloy to step up in class and arrive here in July/August if he tears it up there. I'd imagine the coaches feel the same way.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Yea I don't know how this got so out of hand. Only the OP wanted Eloy brought up now. Then a good writer makes a comparison that isn't really accurate and pretends there's a whole herd of us that are anti rebuild and furious. Contrast whats going on in this thread with the thread in Future Sox for the May 9th games and it's pretty much the same thing which is it's time for a bunch of guys to advance to the next level including Eloy moving up to AAA.

It makes no sense to keep arguing this because the " keep Kopech and Eloy down on the farm till next year" crowd has annointed that post as gold when in actuality  it addresses very few people here. Most of us are just saying bring them up when they are ready and that might be this year,

All I can say at this point is we'll see how it plays out.Keeping them down because of service time isn't the only consideration at play here even if it is very important but so is rewarding those players if they really force the issue and getting ready for signing some free agents by carrying some momentum and possibly creating a some buzz going into next year.

But if you haven't read that Future Sox thread from 5/9 start on page 2. Some of the most respected guys on Soxtalk are talking about and thinking Eloy could be up in July/August and I didn't see one person in that thread calling them out for it.

Edited May 11, 2018 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Jerksticks]

33 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Yea I don't know how this got so out of hand. Only the OP wanted Eloy brought up now. Then a good writer makes a comparison that isn't really accurate and pretends there's a whole herd of us that are anti rebuild and furious. Contrast whats going on in this thread with the thread in Future Sox for the May 9th games and it's pretty much the same thing which is it's time for a bunch of guys to advance to the next level including Eloy moving up to AAA.

It makes no sense to keep arguing this because the " keep Kopech and Eloy down on the farm till next year" crowd has annointed that post as gold when in actuality  it addresses very few people here. Most of us are just saying bring them up when they are ready and that might be this year,

All I can say at this point is we'll see how it plays out.Keeping them down because of service time isn't the only consideration at play here even if it is very important but so is rewarding those players if they really force the issue and getting ready for signing some free agents by carrying some momentum and possibly creating a some buzz going into next year.

But if you haven't read that Future Sox thread from 5/9 start on page 2. Some of the most respected guys on Soxtalk are talking about and thinking Eloy could be up in July/August and I didn't see one person in that thread calling them out for it.

On point here.  

So in 362 plate appearances with the White Sox Eloy has hit .351 and got on base at a .406 clip.  Granted this include winter league but even if you take that out it’s still elite.  

He hasn’t hit below .345 yet!  Ridiculous 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

On point here.  

So in 362 plate appearances with the White Sox Eloy has hit .351 and got on base at a .406 clip.  Granted this include winter league but even if you take that out it’s still elite.  

He hasn’t hit below .345 yet!  Ridiculous 

 

Yep and I made that point earlier in the thread but I didn't list the PA for one of his stops because my computer was acting stupid and I wanted to add it but browser was freezing up and pages taking too long to load.

I'm still kind of pissed this thread went sideways when in the Future Sox thread no one was given any grief about a call up this year for Eloy. Rabbit was like the 1st one to say it and some of the same guys yucking it up in this thread and painting many of us with a broad brush were in that thread but didn't have the stones to say anything then, But once the sharks smell blood they all join in the feeding frenzy.

[caulfield12]

Jimenez should be up to AAA with Zavala on June 20th or 21st.

All-Star game for Southern League in Birmingham this year...Sox won’t move them up until then.

[Chicago White Sox]

10 hours ago, BlackSox13 said:

Yeah, let's hurry to bring Kopech/Jimenez up and if they struggle, turn around and b**** about how they were rushed and that the Sox are notorious for doing this. 

 

The reality is that Kopech is still struggling with his control at AAA and Jimenez still has another level to excel at before he gets called up. 

 

I'm hoping we don't see either of them as Sox regulars until the third or fourth week of April 2019. 

There is zero chance that happens as both guys are close to ready right now.  

Kopech’s BB rate is the lowest it’s been since Low A.  To say he’s struggling with his control is ignoring the type of pitcher Kopech actually is.  The changeup is the one developmental need preventing him from a callup and Hahn has made some comments that it’s coming along nicely.  If so, I am confident he’ll be up as soon as the Super 2 deadline passes.  

As for Eloy, there is really no point for him being in AA right now.  He’s making a joke out of the league.  AAA should provide more of a challenge since guys will likely have better off-speed pitches, but I fully expect him to dominate there as well.  At some point facing major league pitching is what’s best for his development and I don’t think they can wait until next year for that.  I really think he’s up after the All-Star break.

And I’ll reiterate we’re burning control of potential key assets in Moncada, Lopez, & Giolito.  Obviously we shouldn’t rush prospects or forfeit team control within reason, but we also shouldn’t be playing ridiculous service time games.  At the very minimum we can’t down hold down a guy like Kopech until next April.  He made a total of 11 & 22 A+ & AA starts respectively and now we’re proposing he makes 40+ starts in AAA?  Just not going to happen.  They could do it with Jimenez, but I think that would be doing a disservice to his development and our ability to be competing by 2020.

[Chicago White Sox]

32 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Jimenez should be up to AAA with Zavala on June 20th or 21st.

All-Star game for Southern League in Birmingham this year...Sox won’t move them up until then.

No way are they keeping Eloy in AA until the middle of the middle of June.  I get it would be a nice story, but Jimenez’s developmental needs better come first.