Pitcher rotation

[Bazox]

Ok I'm new at this , but i can't believe what I have just seen , Sox where cruising to victory and  then they throw on a dodgy pitcher in the 9th . Tell me this would not have happened if it had been an important game .

[joejoedairy]

Jones is one of their most reliable bullpen arms. Going to him in the 9th made sense. 

He just blew it.

 

The whole bullpen is definitely a sore spot and will need a complete overhaul before the sox can expect to compete

[Bazox]

3 minutes ago, joejoedairy said:

Jones is one of their most reliable bullpen arms.

Ok but why couldn't Fry finish it off ?

[flavum]

1 minute ago, Bazox said:

Ok but why couldn't Fry finish it off ?

He could have, and should have. Unfortunately, managing is CYA (cover your ass). They give pitchers with more experience the final three outs.

[Bazox]

1 minute ago, flavum said:

He could have, and should have. Unfortunately, managing is CYA (cover your ass). They give pitchers with more experience the final three outs.

And yet that Mariners pitcher yesterday threw for the whole game .

I'm only 30 odd games into this sport proper and there are some fundamentals I'm not happy with , it's gonna take time , I was buzzin' there for 8 innings 

[Dam8610]

1 hour ago, Bazox said:

And yet that Mariners pitcher yesterday threw for the whole game .

I'm only 30 odd games into this sport proper and there are some fundamentals I'm not happy with , it's gonna take time , I was buzzin' there for 8 innings 

Be patient with the team right now, they're waiting on waves of new talent over the next couple of seasons to be competitive. This team is going to struggle and have a few losses like today's.

[Heads22]

4 hours ago, Bazox said:

And yet that Mariners pitcher yesterday threw for the whole game .

I'm only 30 odd games into this sport proper and there are some fundamentals I'm not happy with , it's gonna take time , I was buzzin' there for 8 innings 

In baseball, you've got pitchers with certain roles. Most teams carry 11-13 pitchers. 5 will be your starters. Usually your best reliever will be your closer, and its pretty much their gig in the 9th inning if the game is within 3 runs. Nate is our most talented reliever, and he should have been able to handle that situation.

[soxfan49]

3 hours ago, Dam8610 said:

Be patient with the team right now, they're waiting on waves of new talent over the next couple of seasons to be competitive. This team is going to struggle and have a few losses like today's.

Yeah, Bazok, in pro baseball teams have small “franchises” in their organization (minor leagues aka farm system) where developing young guys or older, not so good players play. Fortunately the Sox farm system is absolutely loaded. If all goes to plan, the big league team will be awesome in 1-2 years.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Also just a quick note, the rotation actually just refers to the 5 starting pitchers. Starters and rotation is used interchangeably. Starters only pitch once every 5 days. Rarely do they ever pitch all 9 innings but they handle the majority of the game (unless they're getting killed then they get pulled early). Pitch counts are very important here. If a starter has thrown 100 pitches in 1 game, they will likely be pulled soon.

The rest of the pitchers make up the bullpen (relievers). They come in and pitch after the starters. Theres no 5 day period for these guys. They are mostly available for every game. But that also limits them to pitch much less per game. Most relievers only go a maximum of 1 inning. A lot of left handed relievers tend to go even less than 1 inning as they are considered specialists put in to get left handed batters out and then leave. Fry may end up as one of these specialists, although he just joined the team from the minor leagues so it's hard to say what his role will be (and with how bad the Sox bullpen is they probably dont have a luxury of using specialists). 

 

The bullpen guy who pitches last when the team is winning is called the closer. Typically it's the best reliever you have. That's Jones, the guy who they put in today. He just blew it. On that note it cannot be understated how bad the White Sox bullpen is.

 

I dont know how much of this you knew or didnt know and there are exceptions to everything I said here, but hopefully that info helps.

 

I also want to reiterate what they said about the minor league system above. It's VERY unique to the sport of baseball and very popular to follow in it's own right. To give you an idea, the Sox have a minor league player thats already been paid out 30 million dollars to (more than most all of the White Sox major league roster has made) and yet the highest league hes played in is the ~7th highest league there is. Seems insane on the surface but it shows what a good minor league system can do for you down the line. 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Buehrle>Wood

[Bazox]

2 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

I dont know how much of this you knew or didnt know and there are exceptions to everything I said here, but hopefully that info helps.

 

I didn't know much at all about the use of pitchers , I've learned quite a lot on that game and this thread , thanks.

I can now understand why Fry was not kept on although I don't agree with the decision , of course if Jones had done his stuff then .........

2 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

I also want to reiterate what they said about the minor league system above. It's VERY unique to the sport of baseball and very popular to follow in it's own right

I'm just getting to grips with minor league and have been reading the couple of excellent threads on the forum .

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just think in a year you will be the resident expert in the UK on baseball besides any transplanted Americans there who actually like baseball,

[Bazox]

From early in the season I didn't think much of Fulmer , so although I feel sorry for the guy being demoted I'm pleased that I got it right , I wrongly called Nate Jones a duffer , he has since shown what he can do , there was a comment about Jace Fry not being schooled for starting , surely this can be rectified ?

Edited May 20, 2018 by Bazox
Name wrong

[Buehrle>Wood]

58 minutes ago, Bazox said:

From early in the season I didn't think much of Fulmer , so although I feel sorry for the guy being demoted I'm pleased that I got it right , I wrongly called Nate Jones a duffer , he has since shown what he can do , there was a comment about Trace Fry not being schooled for starting , surely this can be rectified ?

Fry was originally a starting pitcher. However, he's had 2 Tommy John surgeries. There's more wear and tear on a starter's arm compared to a reliever. With his injury concern it's likely he will stay in the bullpen.

[Bazox]

3 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

With his injury concern it's likely he will stay in the bullpen.

What a pity , it must be very frustrating for him but at least he is still in the sport.

[BamaDoc]

A couple other differences.  Some pitchers may lose velocity or their ability to locate the pitch where they want it, the longer they pitch.  These pitchers may be fine for one or two innings hence they are relievers.

 A slightly different concept is that as a starting pitcher, if you pitch deeper into the game, the same batters are seeing your pitches for the third or fourth time.  Starters generally need at least three pitches to show/confuse a batter.  The pitches will differ in velocity and in how they move vertically, horizontally, or both.  A pitcher who has one outstanding pitch or two pretty decent ones may get by if he only faces a batter once in a game so he would be a reliever.

Another matter is how a pitcher's arm recovers physically after exertion.  Some people need more rest between pitching appearances than others.  A closer(guy you use to end the game or get late critical outs) will rarely pitch more than one inning or more than three days in a row.  A starter will generally pitch every fifth day and throw around 100 pitches in a game.  Of course some people are different and there are exceptions to all of these statements.  

Later in a game, the use of relievers may depend on the situation.  In general, there is an advantage for a pitcher to throw to a same sided hitter.  By this I mean a left handed pitcher(LHP) often has an advantage against a left handed batter(LHB) so this is where strategy is involved by each team to try to get the matchups they want.  A team may bring in a LHP to pitch to a LH batter but the original batter could be pinch hit for (taken out of the game and replaced by) a right handed hitter (RHB).  When you see people talking about a pitcher or batters splits that is what they are referring to.  Another example, a LHB may hit .300 vs RHP but .150 vs a LHP so if it is later in a game and you are bringing in a reliever to pitch to him it would statistically be to your advantage to bring in a LHP.  The opposing team might then take him out and replace him with a right handed batter.  It can become a bit of a chess match where each side is trying to work the odds to their favor.  Also, once a player is taken out, he is out for the game, so if you go thru the above scenario in the seventh inning and take out your good left handed hitter, his spot might come up again before the game is over when the other team now has in a RHP.  

In some regards it is a very simple game, nine innings, three outs per side per inning, but the nuances can make it very beautifully complex.

Edited May 19, 2018 by BamaDoc